LED running lights

[Bobbee]

The lower arm of my near side LED running lights on my six year old Yaris failed in March this year. The dealer said that the only solution was to have the whole light replaced at a cost of £450 and this they did. Today the offside lower arm of the LED running light has failed and it looks as if I am faced with another £450 bill. Does anyone know if this is a common fault? Is there anyway I can avoid paying for this again? The car has done 35,000 miles which at a conservative estimate represents about 1700 hours when research shows that they should last about 10,000 hours or the life of the car. These lights also act as side lights so I guess it’s an MOT failure if I don’t get it fixed.

[Stevie J]

It does seem to be a common failure yes, there was a thread not so long ago about the same issue with failing LED strips on late model Mk3 Yaris.

Sometimes it seems to be a better bet to have the lower models in the range such as mine that have standard incandescent bulbs for the DRL, and if they fail its just the cost of a single light bulb. Integrated LEDs are a bad idea as you and others have found out as they cant be replaced. Some people have attempted repairs on them but you need to be quite technical minded to be able to do this. See the article on this link:

 

 

[MikeSh]

5 hours ago, Bobbee said:

research shows that they should last about 10,000 hours

Research hasn't usually panned out in practice for LEDs. Hardly any seem to get near that theoretical 10,000 - half that seems more typical, though these aren't even getting close to that it seems. 

5 hours ago, Bobbee said:

These lights also act as side lights so I guess it’s an MOT failure if I don’t get it fixed.

DRLs are a legal requirement for 2018 cars, so it should fail on that as well. But I'm not sure if they have to be symmetric. If you hadn't replaced the n/s and went for MOT with both lower sections dead would the tester know or notice?

[FROSTYBALLS]

When in 2018 was the car first registered, as the MOT requirement for DRLs is inspection for cars first used on or after 1st March 2018. 

[Bobbee]

Thank you Stevie J, MikeSh and Frostyballs. I don’t  think I could do the repair so I am off to the dealer to organise a replacement and to ask if it would be an MOT failure. I’ll ask for a goodwill gesture although I don’t hold out much hope. The car was registered in Feb 2018 so presumably OK for the DRL regs. If I had know the offside lower LED was going to fail 3months after the near side I would probably have risked not replacing it. Other posts seem to suggest that it is a common fault Europe wide in the 2017-2019 Yaris. I presume Toyota know about it and have fixed it on later models. Thanks again.

[Mojo1010]

In 2018 I bought a 2016 model which has the halogen bulb, so I was fortunate. After replacing you should keep the faulty unit and sell as spares, someone will probably buy it and attempt the repair. 

For myself if I know it's not an MOT failure, I would just leave it as it is, though u have already replaced one unit. 

This suggest the led DLR may only last 5-6 years. @Cyker I hear your car is 2020, you spend a lot of time driving and getting stuck in London's traffic? 😂🫣

[Cyker]

 

[Bobbee]

The car is now booked in to have a replacement headlamp fitted. The dealer did want to have it in to investigate what had gone wrong and to see if it was covered by warranty at a cost to me of £95! I refused this as I didn’t want to pay that to be told what I already know. I have emailed Toyota Customer Care to see if they would offer a discount but no reply so far. While at the dealer I asked if it was an MOT failure but they would not tell me unless it went through the whole MOT test. Not very helpful. I wonder if this fault has been addressed on later models. I presume Toyota know about it.

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 minutes ago, Bobbee said:

The dealer did want to have it in to investigate what had gone wrong and to see if it was covered by warranty at a cost to me of £95!

Usually the investigation fee is refunded if the issue is covered under warranty. Common to  a lot of franchised dealers, whether Toyota or otherwise.

[APS]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:56 PM, Bobbee said:

The car has done 35,000 miles which at a conservative estimate represents about 1700 hours when research shows that they should last about 10,000 hours or the life of the car.

I agree, that is poor. A normal incandescent bulb would last that long.

There are absolutely different grades of quality of LEDs, and the life is also very much determined by the quality of the LED driver/controller. In fact, I'd bet it is more often the driver that dies hence you see whole sets of LEDs go out at once rather than single LED elements. For car manufacturers it is probably hard to guarantee the quality of individual parts as they come from multiple sub-suppliers. 

It is possible to get good quality, none of the LEDs on our 2012 Lexus with 130k miles on it has died... yet.

On 6/18/2024 at 6:56 PM, Bobbee said:

Today the offside lower arm of the LED running light has failed and it looks as if I am faced with another £450 bill.

For what little consolation it may bring, that is not that bad a price for a headlight. Modern full LED headlight units are around £2000-£4000. 😬 

[Mojo1010]

My drl halogen on the 2016 model blown about 3-4 times in 5 years, though only cost about £2 a bulb. 

[Guest]

This will probably tempt fate but, except for the headlights my car still has all the original lamps. The only reason was to replace the original H4 Halogens with Osram Nightbreakers.

The only one to fail prematurely was the l.e.d. high level brake light.

[RickyC]

44 minutes ago, APS said:

There are absolutely different grades of quality of LEDs, and the life is also very much determined by the quality of the LED driver/controller. In fact, I'd bet it is more often the driver that dies hence you see whole sets of LEDs go out at once rather than single LED elements. For car manufacturers it is probably hard to guarantee the quality of individual parts as they come from multiple sub-suppliers.

From what I've read, for the Yaris DRL there's no a problem due to a driver or led failure but due to an oveheating of light guide.  The surface of the ligh guide that is in contact with the led becomes brown due to overheating and looses the capabilty of carry the light. 

Unluckily it's not possible ( in reality someone succeded but it's not easy ) to unassemble the headlight to clean the DRL light guide.

[Mojo1010]

2 hours ago, Bobbee said:

The car is now booked in to have a replacement headlamp fitted. The dealer did want to have it in to investigate what had gone wrong and to see if it was covered by warranty at a cost to me of £95! I refused this as I didn’t want to pay that to be told what I already know. I have emailed Toyota Customer Care to see if they would offer a discount but no reply so far. While at the dealer I asked if it was an MOT failure but they would not tell me unless it went through the whole MOT test. Not very helpful. I wonder if this fault has been addressed on later models. I presume Toyota know about it.

Seriously by not telling u whether it's an MOT failure is bad by this dealer. If I was you I would phone an MOT station and ask. 

[APS]

6 hours ago, RickyC said:

The surface of the ligh guide that is in contact with the led becomes brown due to overheating and looses the capabilty of carry the light. 

Interesting. That sounds like a plain poor design as I would have thought the LED does not need to be in contact with the guide, just shine at a right angle to the entry surface. 

[Mjolinor]

An LED should not get that hot.

Big Clive has a good you tube video about the Dubai LED lamps (not car LEDS, just LEDs in general), well worth a watch and it shows that they can last a lifetime if they are driven correctly.

 

 

[Mjolinor]

 

Apologies for the number of hours of your life that I have just wasted if you are not familiar with Big Clive. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4

 

[bathtub tom]

12 hours ago, Slartybartfast said:

The only one to fail prematurely was the l.e.d. high level brake light.

Yup, £100 at a main dealer. I managed a much cheaper repair. Can't find the thread now, but it meant basically destroying the original (it's no use) and inserting some cheap LEDs from that well known internet auction site. MOT tester couldn't tell the difference, as they're only slightly dimmer.

[Mojo1010]

Is the high level brake light tested for MOT, I thought it's not?

[forkingabout]

15 hours ago, Mjolinor said:

 

Apologies for the number of hours of your life that I have just wasted if you are not familiar with Big Clive. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4

 

One moment please 😉

[Auris James]

I will have the same problem I assume when my pre facelift Auris Hybrid DRL LED lights fail. Sometimes the front offside DRL takes a few seconds to come on after the nearside. Auris has done 50,000 miles.

Toyota should of made the LED's onto a clip in section that's replaceable. Should not have obsolescence built into the design as it's bad for the environment and expensive if you have to buy new lights. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

Yup, £100 at a main dealer.

Yes Bob, slightly more than that too. I bought one off eBay, at half the price, from someone in Eastern Europe. It's outlasted the factory fit unit.

[bathtub tom]

2 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

Is the high level brake light tested for MOT, I thought it's not?

I was told that at least half the elements must work and if any don't, it's an advisory. If more than half don't work, it's a fail. If it's not there, then fair enough, although this was some time ago.

[MardyMarvin]

On 6/22/2024 at 11:44 AM, bathtub tom said:

I was told that at least half the elements must work and if any don't, it's an advisory. If more than half don't work, it's a fail. If it's not there, then fair enough, although this was some time ago.

Defect	Category
(a) Stop lamp(s): (i) with a multiple light source up to 1/2 not functioning (ii) missing, inoperative or in the case of a multiple light source more than 1/2 not functioning (iii) all missing or inoperative	Minor Major Dangerous

On 6/22/2024 at 9:28 AM, Mojo1010 said:

Is the high level brake light tested for MOT, I thought it's not?

according to the MOT document 4.3 stop lamps.

4.3.1. Presence, condition and operation

You must inspect all stop lamps fitted.