Stranded and Out of Business: Help Needed with Toyota Yaris

[forkingabout]

25 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

I seem to remember temporary windscreens in car accessory shops back in the 70s 80s, iirc they looked a bit like a polycarbonite roof on a conservatory, but rolled up.

The idea being you carried one in the car, along with all the other spares in case anything went wrong on a journey,doubt they'd be legal to use now.

They where popular as toughened glass was being used for most windscreens at the time.

If a toughened windscreen suffered an impact & shattered but didn't fall out in front of the driver, the smart thing to do was punch through the remains of the screen to allow forward vision then stop safely.

 

[MikeSh]

7 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

If a toughened windscreen suffered an impact & shattered but didn't fall out in front of the driver, the smart thing to do was punch through the remains of the screen to allow forward vision then stop safely.

The later ones had a roughly rectangular zone in front of the driver which (by some change to the toughening process I suppose) broke into larger pieces so the driver could see to safely pull over ... or I suspect in many cases just carry on home.

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, MikeSh said:

I've experienced that. I was putting toughened glass panels into a conservatory type structure, from inside. There was a nail sticking out of a rafter above (as I found later) and I must have just caught the edge of the pane on it. One second I was holding a 2 ft wide piece of glass, the next I was standing with my hands 2 ft apart wondering where the glass had gone. It was in a small pile at my feet.

When I went to get a replacement the assistant told me that toughened glass is very fragile on the edges. I wish I'd known that before 😒

It's quite interesting how it works - The toughened glass is 'stressed', which for some reason makes it much stronger to impacts, but if that stress is released some how, the whole panel will just implode in the blink of an eye.

There are some fascinating videos by the SlowMo guys on YouTube where they show how amazingly fast the crack propagation travels once it starts.

[flash22]

Laminated glass is the best option, especially on a modern car as the screen is bonded in and acts as a structural component, take the glass out of a car and the roof will crush like a coke/pepsi can

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

Laminated glass is the best option, especially on a modern car as the screen is bonded in and acts as a structural component, take the glass out of a car and the roof will crush like a coke/pepsi can

That's interesting, and I understand it.

But with modern screens being bonded to the bodywork ie glued, rather than being in a frame of some kind,is the structure dependent on the bonding?

Or is the bonding so good that all the strength is in the glass?

 

[MikeSh]

29 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

But with modern screens being bonded to the bodywork ie glued, rather than being in a frame of some kind,is the structure dependent on the bonding?

Yes. The old system with a slotted rubber bead doesn't hold the glass securely. You've probably seen video of crash tests or post-crash photos of real life accidents where the windscreen has left the car but remained intact. 

Bonding was first used (AFAIK) to keep the windscreen in place as a secondary restraint for occupants who weren't belted - It was considered safer to head the glass than to leave the car through the opening.

Using the glass structurally probably followed from that. 

Modern 'glass' can actually be incredibly strong. Laminated glass is a bit like reinforced concrete - the two or more components alone are not very good for some task, but the combination is.

(OT. It always intrigues me that the recycling will take bottles and jars but not window or drinking glass or pyrex type.)

[flash22]

pyrex and the like are borosilicate glass and can be toxic when recycled, same with some window glass it has polymers in the glass or is layered

 

I worked with a lot of lab-grade glassware and borosilicate glass is used with 3d printers

[MardyMarvin]

On 6/28/2024 at 2:48 PM, RobMac2020 said:

Yes we are beyond that, my insurer will not allow me to use Autoglass but they seem to be the most connected people. I am just going to bite the bullet and pay without insurance (currently £1100) as I just need it done.

not sure if its the same for glass but car repairs the insurance companies can not force you to use their preferred repairer and you can use one you wish to. Its a lot more hassle as such and generally you have to get various quotes and prove the cost are standard for the repair.

Look it up but you never know

[FROSTYBALLS]

15 minutes ago, MardyMarvin said:

not sure if its the same for glass but car repairs the insurance companies can not force you to use their preferred repairer and you can use one you wish to.

However, some insurers charge an additional excess or limit the amount one can claim if their approved repairer isn't used, and this is written into their policies.

As the OP stated though, he isn't using his insurer for this.

[RobMac2020]

Just wanted to clarify what the insurance (KGM Underwriting Services) situation is with this repair. The policy states I should use their preferred windscreen company, I will have to pay in total an excess of £125 for the repair.

If I choose to use another supplier (because they can actually get a windscreen for instance) I can only claim £125 toward those costs from KGM, that is their limit for third party suppliers. I would have to pay whatever the difference is.

[TonyHSD]

19 minutes ago, RobMac2020 said:

Just wanted to clarify what the insurance (KGM Underwriting Services) situation is with this repair. The policy states I should use their preferred windscreen company, I will have to pay in total an excess of £125 for the repair.

If I choose to use another supplier (because they can actually get a windscreen for instance) I can only claim £125 toward those costs from KGM, that is their limit for third party suppliers. I would have to pay whatever the difference is.

This does sound right to me. 
If you use another garage to repair your windscreen your insurance should still pay for the repair bill in full and charge you £125 excess for windscreen replacement plus the amount of charge they usually do on non approved garage repairs, for some insurance policies this is £200 so total excess £325. 
Similar to when you have car involved in an accident and you insist the repair should be done by a Toyota garage , although these days many dealers doesn’t have body repair services and they use third party garages for these repairs. 

[Mojo1010]

What you need to do is dig out the policy wording when it comes to windscreen repair in the t&c. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

This is why it is important to check a policy before taking insurance out.

It is quite common for insurers to limit cover on vehicle glass if their approved repairer isn't used.

So the supplied wording is that they will only pay £125 if their approved repaired isn't used - and there doesn't seems to be any exception.

May be worthwhile talking to the insurer if their approved repairer cannot supply the windscreen to see if they will agree an alternative solution. 

Don't know whether the approved repairer would be able to source the windscreen from Autoglass (if Autoglass are the company who have the screen)

[Cyker]

Unlikely - I broached this with Autoglass with mine and they refused to source the windscreen from Toyota, and I suspect they would be the same in the opposite direction. It seems a lot of these companies are very insular and don't like co-operating with 'the competition'.

It is worth speaking to the insurer though - If the 'approved' repairer is dicking you about, the insurer might authorize you to go elsewhere.

That's exactly what happened with me, after Autoglass messed me about for months with no communication, and then my now former-insurer agreed to let me go elsewhere after I contacted them to explain the situation.

[dads Taxi x3]

On 6/28/2024 at 2:34 PM, RobMac2020 said:

Yes, that is my understanding as well. It is the bracket/element that  the camera housing connects to the windscreen that is the issue.

The safety features are a real problem from a driver experience. They cannot be permanently disabled and are reset when the car is restarted. The steering gets grabbed from you randomly if you go near a white line. I mentioned this to the dealer I bought the car from and they said they too were struggling with the new features.

Feel incredibly let down by Toyota on this customer experience. They allocate screens to new car sales but nothing to existing customers.

 

Can't you give the car back an tell them to shove it .as its not as described  car that's good for 7 years 100.0000 miles so on  yet bust windscreen your %$(ed . 

Or can't you hire a car ?? 

[dads Taxi x3]

On 6/29/2024 at 12:39 PM, Chas G said:

Amazed that a falling pine cone could break a car windscreen. Makes me wonder if the normal little hailstones we get in the UK would do the same thing.

If you pick up a small bit gravel an just one chuck that at your windows  that will shatter the glass .same with small white part of a spark plug . 

Car theives are picking up gravel putting in there pockets and if they get.stoped by the cops  they know why they have gravel but can't do anything  unlike a screwdriver  glass hammer  old fashioned stuff you need to brake in to a car . 

[dads Taxi x3]

On 6/29/2024 at 4:12 PM, Cyker said:

TBH it still amazes me they use glass as the main windscreen material - It's heavy and fragile; I thought they'd be using some sort of UV-stabilized optical-grade polycarbonate or hardened lexan or something as standard by now.

 

But if you was stuck in an upturned cgarand tried to kick out polly glass you never get out  why windscreens are designed to be kicked out to save lives .

BUT I do see what.your saying .. 

[RobMac2020]

Quick update on this Yaris issue. According to Toyota UK they have stopped production of the Yaris (in France) due to the windscreen quality control issue. Apparently Toyota are taking the issue very seriously! Seems incredible state of affairs to me.

[RobMac2020]

I assume it is to do with this story...

"Toyota Motor has decided to continue suspending production of three models affected by test data falsification until July or later, beyond the originally set deadline of June 28.

Toyota says it has not decided when to resume the production but the suspension will remain at least until July 31.

Toyota was found earlier this month to have falsified performance tests in order to obtain government certifications for its vehicles.

The transport ministry ordered Toyota to suspend shipments of the affected vehicles."

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably Czech Republic production is continuing .....?

[RobMac2020]

2 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Presumably Czech Republic production is continuing .....?

If they have falsified test data, assume it is across the board.

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 minute ago, RobMac2020 said:

I assume it is to do with this story...There

"Toyota Motor has decided to continue suspending production of three models affected by test data falsification until July or later, beyond the originally set deadline of June 28.

Toyota says it has not decided when to resume the production but the suspension will remain at least until July 31.

Toyota was found earlier this month to have falsified performance tests in order to obtain government certifications for its vehicles.

The transport ministry ordered Toyota to suspend shipments of the affected vehicles."

No.

This is regarding testing issues in Japan and affects Japanese plants:

 

 

[RobMac2020]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

No.

This is regarding testing issues in Japan and affects Japanese plants:

 

 

Yes except that Toyota UK just told me they have halted production here, When I said is that in France they confirmed. I asked was there anywhere else I could source a screen in Europe they said no. Draw your own conclusions )

[FROSTYBALLS]

For the European market the Yaris is produced in France and the Czech Republic, not the UK.

[RobMac2020]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

For the European market the Yaris is produced in France and the Czech Republic, not the UK.

It looks like production is halted here also, that's my understanding. When there is an information blackout it usual means they have potential legal issues.