New member, looking for reliable SUV

[piorunz]

Hello friends,

I am new here, from the UK. Currently driving 2021 Volvo XC60 T8 PHEV. I am looking to replace it with an alternative SUV, because I am not happy with design flaws of this car (for example spilling petrol everywhere when refuelling to full, due to overcomplicated design). I have high hopes with Toyota RAV4. I've read entire threads on security issues with this car, recent CANbus theft on non-PHEV models, and I am not convinced.

Any comments from RAV4 or Toyota owners in general are welcome. I don't know how is it to own a Toyota car, please feel free to tell me. Thank you!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Hello Piorunz - welcome to Toyota Owners Club.

Topic moved to the Rav4 forum for feedback on this model.

[Mike2222]

10 hours ago, piorunz said:

I have high hopes with Toyota Rav4... I am not convinced

This is a confusing statement. About what do you require convincing? Or are you saying that you are not disheartened by the theft issues on pre-2022 MY HEV Ravs? 

 

If you are planning to transition from Volvo PHEV to Rav4 PHEV, then the canbus issues are largely irrelevant anyway, as their design is different and they are not vulnerable to that method of theft. 

[Flatcoat]

It is very simple. 1) Look how many RAV’s are sold each year around the world; 2) if they are good enough for New York taxi drivers to use then they must be pretty robust and reliable. 

[piorunz]

1 hour ago, Mike2222 said:

This is a confusing statement. About what do you require convincing? Or are you saying that you are not disheartened by the theft issues on pre-2022 MY HEV Ravs? 

 

If you are planning to transition from Volvo PHEV to Rav4 PHEV, then the canbus issues are largely irrelevant anyway, as their design is different and they are not vulnerable to that method of theft. 

I am disheartened by any theft. PHEVs, both Volvo and RAV4, are apparently pretty safe. I don't know the technical details, but why is that the case? Why was the RAV4 PHEV not susceptible to CANbus theft, while the non-PHEV version was? If anyone knows the details, please share.

Quote

This is a confusing statement. About what do you require convincing?

Why did Toyota, knowing about the problem, allow it to escalate to this degree? Non-PHEV owners had their cars stolen for many months, while dealerships were not told to contact customers with vulnerable cars, or maybe they were not told anything at all. Cars were purchased and stolen a week later, all the while dealerships were completely silent about the fact that the car they just sold has a fatal security flaw and can be stolen in 2 minutes. How can we trust a company like that? What if this happens again in the future? This is the problem I am now facing: the trust problem.

[piorunz]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

It is very simple. 1) Look how many RAV’s are sold each year around the world; 2) if they are good enough for New York taxi drivers to use then they must be pretty robust and reliable. 

Thank you, that's the answer. How about servicing, dealerships in the UK? Anyone want to tell their experience with owning RAV4 for many years, how is it? Thank you.

[Flatcoat]

2 minutes ago, piorunz said:

Thank you, that's the answer. How about servicing, dealerships in the UK? Anyone want to tell their experience with owning RAV4 for many years, how is it? Thank you.

Plentiful and not a problem. I came to a RAV from Volvo and would not go back. 

[philip42h]

9 minutes ago, piorunz said:

Why was the RAV4 PHEV not susceptible to CANbus theft, while the non-PHEV version was? If anyone knows the details, please share.

We are NOT going to share details on how to steal a car on the forum ... 😉

Toyota GB provided a statement on vehicle theft which has already been posted on this forum, and there are numerous posts on the subject.

In short, the designs of the HEV and PHEV were slightly different in this crucial area. And if you are looking to buy a new car the topic is irrelevant in any case.

[piorunz]

1 minute ago, Flatcoat said:

Plentiful and not a problem. I came to a RAV from Volvo and would not go back. 

Awesome, what Volvo did you had before, and why did you move?

I am afraid of owning a Volvo for a prolonged period of time. It's such a complicated vehicle with many software errors and hardware flaws, I don't want to know what will break first after the warranty period ends.

[piorunz]

2 minutes ago, philip42h said:

We are NOT going to share details on how to steal a car on the forum ... 😉

Toyota GB provided a statement on vehicle theft which has already been posted on this forum, and there are numerous posts on the subject.

In short, the designs of the HEV and PHEV were slightly different in this crucial area. And if you are looking to buy a new car the topic is irrelevant in any case.

Thank you, I've read almost all of 500 comments under that statement.

Quote

In short, the designs of the HEV and PHEV were slightly different in this crucial area. And if you are looking to buy a new car the topic is irrelevant in any case.

I originally posted it in Welcome section, but it has been moved by the moderator to RAV4 section. I am still more than happy to hear any experience Toyota owners would like to share with me. Thank you.

[philip42h]

14 minutes ago, piorunz said:

How about servicing, dealerships in the UK?

That will vary from franchise to franchise, and it is impossible to generalise.

I too switched from Volvo to Toyota but many years ago, and bizarrely kept the same service manager - he switched at about the same time! Not surprisingly, I remained perfectly happy with the service I received.

But I suspect that the standard of service across the board has suffered as pressure on the margins of dealerships grows. You just have to find one that is fit for purpose and stick with it ...

[Flatcoat]

1 hour ago, piorunz said:

Awesome, what Volvo did you had before, and why did you move?

I am afraid of owning a Volvo for a prolonged period of time. It's such a complicated vehicle with many software errors and hardware flaws, I don't want to know what will break first after the warranty period ends.

All cars are complicated these days. My Volvo had too many glitches for an allegedly premium brand. Toyota have a much deserved reputation for reliability. For me it’s not a question that needs asking. If a RAV otherwise suits your needs then go for it. The only caveat is a Toyota doesn’t have the solid feel of a Volvo, if you want that then look at Lexus, they are more solid in feel. That doesn’t mean Toyota are not robust - witness how Hi-Lux and Landcruisers are used around the world’s war zones. 

[Rav Rob]

I rarely order the same car more than once, but I did with the RAV4 after putting a lot of miles on my 2019 one for work and then got a 2022. I decided to keep it as my long term retirement keeper because its big enough to haul a lot of stuff, a comfy long distance car, yet gives as good fuel economy as our little Fiesta! so virtually no penalty for having a big car in case you need it. It has extremely good safety performance and is quite lively to drive, especially 'off the line' Nothing has gone wrong with either car and I would be shocked if it did. 
Dealers are good but often short on space as they cover quite a lot of models, service prices are excellent and if you maintain Toyota servicing you get your warranty extended up to 10 years/100K. I always get lent a nice courtesy car.

A lot of people get stressed about the theft issues and yes it would be a massive hassle if it happened, loss of no claims, personal possessions and so on. But that is what insurance is for ultimately so I wouldn't ever let it be a major influence in getting the best car for me.

[piorunz]

Thanks for all your replies.

And what about disadvantages on latest generations? Does anything in 2024 RAV4 went worse, or bad, compared to older models? Or better? Anything in new RAV4 wil annoy me, does anything annoy you?

To give an analogy to my current car: the latest Volvo XC60 2024, compared to 2021 model, loses not only physical switch for engine modes, but also USB slot for music (playing your songs from MP3 is no longer possible), automatic parking in and out function, and probably few other annoying things I may not remember from Volvo forums. And of course price hike.

Physical engine mode switch castration is a big retrograde step, now it's not a matter of pressing a button and rolling it onto a desired setting, which can be done without taking eyes off the road, but on 2024 model it requires several touchscreen swipes with full attention. I use this button a lot, and I use music from USB almost the entire time I am in the car, I don't know what they were trying to save, a what £50 in production cost? Seems like a very stupid move.

[philip42h]

7 hours ago, piorunz said:

generations?

The current generation - the RAV 4 Mk5 aka RAV4.5 - has been available since 2019/20. I assume that you aren't really interested in earlier generations?

Toyota model year changes tend to be relatively minor improvements though the kit available on the various grades does occasionally change and not necessarily for the better.

The car is well equipped with (redundant 🙂 ) physical buttons so drive modes and aircon controls are well catered for.

The most significant infotainment change was back around 2023 when the old Toyota Touch system was replaced with the Toyota Smart Connect system. I haven't yet heard any reports from folk wishing that they could go back ...

The multimedia USB connector was changed from USB-A to USB-C which caused problems for some.

The main driving display was changed from two physical dial and a multifunction screen to a single large multifunction screen offering more customisation options. I've seen a number of posts from folk complaining that this doesn't offer the specific customisation that they want. So, some folk are apparently annoyed by have more options to choose from ... 😉

The biggest current bugbear is the introduction of new advanced driving assistance systems (ADAS) and Toyotas implementation of the legislation requiring them to be on by default. That obviously applies to all new cars but different manufacturers may have taken different interpretations of the law,

[Flatcoat]

You simply need to go and test drive one. What annoys me and what annoys you may be completely different. The upgrade to the new infotainment system was for 2022 model year. My car was built early October 2021 and just missed out. 

[AndyN01]

My RAV is the 5th Toyota in the family car history.

The reason is that I want reliability.

There are doubtless more "stylish" cars, faster cars etc. etc out there BUT I want it to start, get to where I'm going and back time and time and time again.

If you're going for a new one, who else gives you a 10 year warranty? IMHO all new cars are far too complicated which equals potential for failures but they are all in the same boat for that. And, the cynical me thinks that is deliberate to force "us" to buy another one in a relatively short time frame.

Good luck with your ponderings.

 

[piorunz]

Thank you all for replies. 🙏😊Yes I am planning to test drive it, knowing now that this car could be suitable for me, just need to find time. I will test some other models too, maybe C-HR. And by the way more expensive XC60 also get aircon and temperature switches castrated, already in 2021 model, it's all in the touchscreen. That's the trend with some brands nowadays, they want drivers to use touchscreen like it was some kids' tablet not a car. 🤣

[P_J]

I spent a lot of time deliberating in the same way as you are, about a year ago. 
I eventually settled on the RAV4 PHEV and its meets/exceeds my expectations in every way, with the exception of the annoying overspeed beeping, which I've learned to either ignore (if short journey), or turn on the music (when travelling alone), or turn it off completely (if longer distances and transporting people). 

 

[Flatcoat]

And, please do not take my following comment the wrong way, however instead of castrated might better use ‘deleted’. Castrated or castration is something unmentionable carried to a rather important and delicate part of a males anatomy!