5 years hard labour ?

[Bper]

49 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Ministers don’t make mistakes, Cyker.  They make decisions based upon the facts that have been supplied to them - they all seem to have advisers in the background - and then blame misinformation when things go wrong.  They then bring in new rules to suit the information they now know(?) to be correct, and the rest of us are expected to believe it.

Have you ever known a minister to stand up and say, “Sorry, but I have made a mistake.”?

Of course not! That would require a miracle and we all know ministers only perform those after a lengthy investigation and a committee or two to ensure it's politically advantageous!😂

[Cyker]

15 minutes ago, Bper said:

It feels like they didn’t really think things through with all these changes. The switch to CO2-based tax made sense on paper, but they didn't plan for what would happen when everyone started driving cars with £0 tax. Now we're seeing the same thing with EVs great for the environment, but there's no clear plan for the lost fuel tax revenue. It's like they’re stuck in a cycle of fixing one problem while creating another.☹️

Definitely - It should have been obvious what would happen!

In fact, what happened is what they wanted to happen - Car CO2 output reduced.

That's all good, but they somehow missed that the more successful that was, the more it would deprive them of revenue.

And they're doing the same thing again!

[Benzowner]

Having read an article on the cost of government, how we are charged excise duty, be it vehicle, VAT or any other tax, the average we all have to pay is around £17k per annum per person, or it was in 2022/3 probably gone up a bit now, a sobering thought. 

[dannyboy413]

4 hours ago, Bper said:

It feels like they didn’t really think things through with all these changes. The switch to CO2-based tax made sense on paper, but they didn't plan for what would happen when everyone started driving cars with £0 tax. Now we're seeing the same thing with EVs great for the environment, but there's no clear plan for the lost fuel tax revenue. It's like they’re stuck in a cycle of fixing one problem while creating another.☹️

 

4 hours ago, Bper said:

It feels like they didn’t really think things through with all these changes.

Seems to be how people in a position of responsibility think - and have done for a long time. One prime example is the RAAC concrete scandal. When it was 'invented', it was known that it had a lifespan approaching 50 years. Nobody ever thought, "what will we do in 50 years time?" It seems that it was a cheap way to do things at the time and those who did make the decisions, probably thought, "50 years, I might not even be around in 50 years and even if I am, it will be somebody elses problem then".  Same with the current (car), tax problems - nobody is thinking beyond the immediate future. I sometimes am glad that I am not now just starting out in life!

[Bper]

15 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

 

Seems to be how people in a position of responsibility think - and have done for a long time. One prime example is the RAAC concrete scandal. When it was 'invented', it was known that it had a lifespan approaching 50 years. Nobody ever thought, "what will we do in 50 years time?" It seems that it was a cheap way to do things at the time and those who did make the decisions, probably thought, "50 years, I might not even be around in 50 years and even if I am, it will be somebody elses problem then".  Same with the current (car), tax problems - nobody is thinking beyond the immediate future. I sometimes am glad that I am not now just starting out in life!

Wasn't the scale and cost of the RAAC problem so big that the government had revised its plans on what buildings would be prioritised due to the scale and lack of available contractors and materials to put this right.

[dannyboy413]

I am not sure Bob, but it is affecting all sorts of buildings, including hospitals and schools. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but when the stuff was first used, 'they' knew it had a lifespan of about 50 years. Okay, if you do not know that something is going to fail, when it does, you have an unexpected problem, but when you know, 50 years in advance, that something is going to fail and do not put any plans in place ......... Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs.  Okay, will have to get off my soapbox now, it is developing an unexpected fault. 😉

[Bper]

24 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

I am not sure Bob, but it is affecting all sorts of buildings, including hospitals and schools. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but when the stuff was first used, 'they' knew it had a lifespan of about 50 years. Okay, if you do not know that something is going to fail, when it does, you have an unexpected problem, but when you know, 50 years in advance, that something is going to fail and do not put any plans in place ......... Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs.  Okay, will have to get off my soapbox now, it is developing an unexpected fault. 😉

You're absolutely right, it seem ludicrous that they didn't plan for something they knew would be a problem half a century later. It’s a classic case of short term thinking leading to long term headaches. And it’s not just a minor oversight these are essential buildings like schools and hospitals that people rely on every day. Let's hope this serves as a wake up call for future planning. By the way, better get that soapbox reinforced wouldn’t want it to collapse unexpectedly! 😉"

[Primus1]

Just keep the current system of ved but include ev,s, ppm, will affect the poorest..

[dannyboy413]

11 minutes ago, Bper said:

By the way, better get that soapbox reinforced wouldn’t want it to collapse unexpectedly! 😉"

I don't suppose you know where I could get some cheap concrete do you?

[Bper]

46 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

I don't suppose you know where I could get some cheap concrete do you?

I know a place where the deals are so good, they’re set to last.😂👍

[Haliotis]

Quite a number of years ago, I rember a programme on TV concerning architectural work and subsequent demolition.

It centred on a building project somewhere in London, where a building spanned a roadway, and then a mult-storey block built on top of it.  There are straining cables built into the lower span and then, as the multi-storey block progressed, these cables were tightened to keep the whole construction in balance.

The point being made was that future demolition companies would need to be highly trained in construction engineering, and records maintained for the purpose of future demolition.

Regarding the building in question it was emphasized that, if some unwitting demolition company simply first removed the multi-storey block, without gradually relieving the straining cables, the span would simply catapult itself into the air with catastrophic results.

[Mjolinor]

17 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Quite a number of years ago, I rember a programme on TV concerning architectural work and subsequent demolition.

It centred on a building project somewhere in London, where a building spanned a roadway, and then a mult-storey block built on top of it.  There are straining cables built into the lower span and then, as the multi-storey block progressed, these cables were tightened to keep the whole construction in balance.

The point being made was that future demolition companies would need to be highly trained in construction engineering, and records maintained for the purpose of future demolition.

Regarding the building in question it was emphasized that, if some unwitting demolition company simply first removed the multi-storey block, without gradually relieving the straining cables, the span would simply catapult itself into the air with catastrophic results.

I remember that. I also seem to remember that they cut the cables first and let it all collapse.

Could be my aged manky memory making it up though. 🙂

 

[AndyN01]

Governments (of whatever colour) only think in 5 year cycles and, primarily, what is politically advantageous. The lack of thoughtful, considered, necessary long term infrastructure planning/building/replacement is painfully obvious for all to see.

I believe that "big/National" infrastructure projects should be a long, long way away from politicians and in the hands of folks that (a) know what they're doing such as engineers (b) have appropriate, ring fenced, funding to do the job properly (not "pulled" for political reasons) and, (c) as described above, have a realistic lifespan with replacement all planned into a long term (decades+) time frame.

Perhaps we could start with the runway and accommodation for the squadrons of Pigs that'll be flying past very soon. 😂

[Bper]

31 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Quite a number of years ago, I rember a programme on TV concerning architectural work and subsequent demolition.

It centred on a building project somewhere in London, where a building spanned a roadway, and then a mult-storey block built on top of it.  There are straining cables built into the lower span and then, as the multi-storey block progressed, these cables were tightened to keep the whole construction in balance.

The point being made was that future demolition companies would need to be highly trained in construction engineering, and records maintained for the purpose of future demolition.

Regarding the building in question it was emphasized that, if some unwitting demolition company simply first removed the multi-storey block, without gradually relieving the straining cables, the span would simply catapult itself into the air with catastrophic results.

Hi Albert, the support system you mentioned sounds similar to what was used in the Palestra building in London, which spanned a railway line and required a significant amount of engineering to manage the load. The use of post tensioned steel tendons was essential in ensuring the structure's stability. Any demolition required a carefully planned sequence, as removing parts without accounting for the tension in these tendons could lead to a catastrophic failure. This again highlights the need for detailed construction records and structural engineers to  manage these type of difficult demolitions. 😀

[Bper]

13 minutes ago, AndyN01 said:

Governments (of whatever colour) only think in 5 year cycles and, primarily, what is politically advantageous. The lack of thoughtful, considered, necessary long term infrastructure planning/building/replacement is painfully obvious for all to see.

I believe that "big/National" infrastructure projects should be a long, long way away from politicians and in the hands of folks that (a) know what they're doing such as engineers (b) have appropriate, ring fenced, funding to do the job properly (not "pulled" for political reasons) and, (c) as described above, have a realistic lifespan with replacement all planned into a long term (decades+) time frame.

Perhaps we could start with the runway and accommodation for the squadrons of Pigs that'll be flying past very soon. 😂

It’s frustrating to see governments focus only on what’s politically convenient in the short term, rather than thinking about the long term infrastructure we really need. Your idea of putting big projects in the hands of experts with secure, long term funding is right. It would make a world of difference.But as you joked, getting politicians to let go of control like that might be IMO be as likely as ULEZ being scrapped😂

it’s worth people pushing for these changes because if enough people demand it, who knows maybe one day we will actually see pigs fly and it won’t seem so impossible.😀

[Haliotis]

51 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

I remember that. I also seem to remember that they cut the cables first and let it all collapse.

Could be my aged manky memory making it up though. 🙂

 

I wasn’t aware that it had been demolished already.

Bob, it may well be/had been the Palestra building that you mention.

If they did cut the cables, as John suggests, I would not fancy being anywhere near as it was done. Imagine that great edifice suddenly collapsing in one lump!

[Mjolinor]

2 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

I wasn’t aware that it had been demolished already.

Bob, it may well be/had been the Palestra building that you mention.

If they did cut the cables, as John suggests, I would not fancy being anywhere near as it was done. Imagine that great edifice suddenly collapsing in one lump!

I am pretty sure that the one I am thinking of was in Yankerland, not the UK.

 

[Bper]

Since the winter fuel allowance is being cut for everyone except those who qualify, and pensions might rise due to the triple lock and push some people close to the £12,570 tax threshold, could it be time for the government to raise the personal tax threshold?.

[Primus1]

I’ve said this before, if the previous government,and this one, we’re serious about eliminating poverty they would raise the personal tax threshold to a MIN 20k, ideally 25k..that would be a start..

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Primus1 said:

I’ve said this before, if the previous government,and this one, we’re serious about eliminating poverty they would raise the personal tax threshold to a MIN 20k, ideally 25k..that would be a start..

Totally agree,raising the income tax threshold from £12,570 to £20,000 would boost disposable income for low earners, saving them about £1,500 annually. This could help reduce benefit dependency and encourage more people to work. Whilst it might also lower government tax revenue this could offset by other financial savings.😀

[Primus1]

A windfall tax on the utility companies would be a start even if this was temporarily imposed over say, a two year period..

[Bper]

13 hours ago, Primus1 said:

A windfall tax on the utility companies would be a start even if this was temporarily imposed over say, a two year period..

I think if the government stopped wasting and borrowing money to finance its impractical schemes, there might be plenty of funds available to address other needs.🙄

[Primus1]

31 minutes ago, Bper said:

I think if the government stopped wasting and borrowing money to finance its impractical schemes, there might be plenty of funds available to address other needs.🙄

You forget there’s been a change of government recently, most of the hare brained schemes by the last lot have been scrapped…

[AndyN01]

Who, in turn, shall be replaced by another Government in however many years, and they shall scrap this set of "schemes" to bring in their own and the whole farce shall go round and round while none of them really address the critical (IMHO) "big" infrastructure etc. projects as I posted earlier.

All rather pathetic and sad.....

Grumpy old man shall fetch his cap and coat 😉

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Primus1 said:

You forget there’s been a change of government recently, most of the hare brained schemes by the last lot have been scrapped…

I meant to put a S on the end of government😃, regardless they all waste out money whatever party is in power.😡