Do you only use a Faraday Pouch at home or maybe hotel/pub?

[olddriver]

I have been carrying my Faraday Pouch with me when I go out and putting my key in it, I lost a Pouch last week while out shopping, I presume that it fell out of my pocket, fortunately the key was not in it.  That got thinking that there is no point in using the pouch when out and about because I will not be close enough for one of the devices the thieves use to work, except maybe in a pub.  What’s the consensus?

[Bper]

Using a Faraday pouch to protect your key fob from theft depends on how close you are to potential thieves with relay devices. If you are in areas where theft attempts might happen, like busy places or car parks then the pouch can block the signal effectively. However if you're in safer or familiar environments, you might find using the pouch less necessary. It's a balance between security and convenience,weighing the risk of theft against the inconvenience of using the pouch every time you use your keys.it's about choosing what gives you peace of mind and fits your activities.

[forkingabout]

A lot of the newer Toyota / Lexus products the keyless fobs have motion sensing technology built in & go to sleep after a few minutes once the fob stops moving.

If you have the newer type of keyless fob you don't really need a Faraday pouch. 

[Haliotis]

When my car is parked up, whether on my driveway or in any other place, I always put the fob in my Faraday pouch. “Sometimes do and sometimes don’t” is the next step to “sometimes forget”. Out and about, I keep my fob (in its pouch) in my pocket.  And I take the same care of ensuring it’s safely stored as I do for my card wallet.

Over time, the Faraday lining can wear and its security function deteriorate, so I periodically go right up to the car and, with the fob in its Faraday bag, attempt to open my car doors.   In order to live as trouble-free life as possible we do need to follow certain self-disciplines, the purpose of which is to help keep us safe from the thieving low life that we know is out there.

Regarding the “newer type of keyless fob” not needing a Faraday pouch, over the years we have heard of many security systems that have turned out to be not so secure so, as far as I am concerned, retaining use of the pouch is a sensible safety option that should still be employed, rather than blindly believing the fob makers have finally made them permanently secure.

[Benzowner]

Question. I have considered one of these Faraday pouches, but unless I am within a couple of feet of my car it is not possible to unlock it. So, how close would a would be thief have to be to my key for it to be cloned?

[Bper]

21 minutes ago, Benzowner said:

Question. I have considered one of these faraday pouches, but unless I am within a couple of feet of my car it is not possible to unlock it. So, how close would a would be thief have to be to my key for it to be cloned?

Hi Geoff.A Faraday pouch or Faraday cage is designed to block electromagnetic signals, including those emitted by key fobs, to prevent them from being intercepted or cloned. If your key fob is inside a properly functioning Faraday pouch, a thief would typically need to be within a few inches to a foot of the pouch to potentially clone the key fob signal successfully. This is because the pouch attenuates the signal strength significantly, making it harder for the signal to be captured from a distance.

[ToyotaFanDriver]

I've turned off the keyless entry completely so dont bother with pouches...

[Haliotis]

9 minutes ago, ToyotaFanDriver said:

I've turned off the keyless entry completely so dont bother with pouches...

How have you managed to do that?  What security do you now have to (a) be the only one to gain access to your car and (b) prevent any unauthorised person to gain access?

[Red_Corolla]

1 hour ago, Benzowner said:

Question. I have considered one of these faraday pouches, but unless I am within a couple of feet of my car it is not possible to unlock it. So, how close would a would be thief have to be to my key for it to be cloned?

About the same. The fob transmitter is weak by design,  but it could work from a bit further away if the cloning device had a better antenna than your car has.

I have a question of my own: Where is the antenna positioned within the car and how does it reliably detect whether the fob is inside or outside of the car? For example, if I accidentaly leave my fob in the door bin when I alight, then close the door and attempt to lock it by touching the outside handle, it rightly refuses to work, but how does it know which side of the door skin the fob is located? On other occasions, I have (unwittingly) tried to lock my keys in the boot and, again, been thwarted by the car's superior intellect. There must be some method of establishing that the signal is received from outside the periphery - what is it?

[ToyotaFanDriver]

1 hour ago, Haliotis said:

How have you managed to do that?  What security do you now have to (a) be the only one to gain access to your car and (b) prevent any unauthorised person to gain access?

I'm not sure I understand the question? In the settings I turned it off. 

 

The only way to open the car is to physically press the unlock button on the car keys. It will not open/unlock just by me walking upto to the car. I would assume when this is turned off that a)the car stops trying to look for the key to unlock it keyless'ly and b) they key stops 24/7 trying to transmit to unlock via keyless

 

I'm happy to be corrected by other members on this.

[Haliotis]

Hi jack.  I think you have answered my question.  I have not thought about turning off the keyless fob - to be honest, I’ve never thought that facility was available.  What would worry me is if, by turning off the keyless entry completely, it may be that anyone breaking into the car could start it simply by pressing the ‘start button’ and drive it off.

Or does the fob still have to be on your person for the car to recognise the authorisation for it to start?

[ToyotaFanDriver]

3 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Hi Jack.  I think you have answered my question.  I have not thought about turning off the keyless fob - to be honest, I’ve never thought that facility was available.  What would worry me is if, by turning off the keyless entry completely, it may be that anyone breaking into the car could start it simply by pressing the ‘start button’ and drive it off.

Or does the fob still have to be on your person for the car to recognise the authorisation for it to start?

 

I see, what you were asking makes sense.

 

So with the keyless turned off you cannot start the car without physically holding the key against the stop/start button. Just being on me or in the car it still wont start the car. Someone breaking into the car would need the keys.

Keyless is great but is ruined by risk of theft. So safer way to do it is just turn it off. 

[Haliotis]

Hi jack.  I can follow what you say.  If the fob has to be held close to the start button to start the car, what happens afterwards?  Does the fob have to be kept close to the start button in order to prevent the car from cutting out?  Or does it not matter once the car has been started?

For myself, I prefer to use the full keyless function - I don’t worry about theft because I rigidly stick to using the Faraday bag.

[Cyker]

Disabling the keyless system will shut down the keyless transponders in the car (Which will also help extend 12v Battery life if the car's going to be left for a long time!).

It won't disable anything on the key fobs specifically, but I think the key fobs only listen for the keyless signal before transmitting anyway so effectively it stops, although if they get near another car with a similar keyless system they will wake up and start pinging each other.

Inside the car, without the keyless system active, the only way to disarm the immobilizer is via the old school RFID transponder ring around the Start button, which requires holding the key up to it. Once started, the immobilizer is disarmed and plays no further part until the car is switched off.

 

[AJones]

31 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

If the fob has to be held close to the start button to start the car, what happens afterwards?  Does the fob have to be kept close to the start button in order to prevent the car from cutting out?  Or does it not matter once the car has been started?

The car starts up and you can put the keys down or in your pocket, you don't need to keep them close to the start button once it has started. It has never cut out on me.

When I saw the police warnings about keyless thefts and looked into getting Faraday pouches it seemed a right faff having to keep the car keys separate from the rest of the keys, or having some large pouch to keep them all in, or even keeping them in a metal box inside the house.

More of an inconvenience than a convenience, simpler and more secure to just switch keyless off and use the fob buttons.

[Paul john]

You guys are over thinking this. 

Purchase one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BEEWAY-Faraday-Pouch-Keys-Pack/dp/B0CLDCBVJG/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=3AVPZ2BB1S36K&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3q_BWrlr2ZHifJ5SGVIglFMGVAc5Cws4GRaKkZI2PmD7m07hBURLlZ298Vtar9y61zq8B6qo5BVHCKTWKnJcpHAc7D_A0yJ-qrj6LYskzz390grz6xueDU4OynsWjdRVk_v-R9ywDe_bUyDQ0waFXnMYGDfGc5pQ4QngBS1FKr9LFntW8mZgdYJzbxwB3kb4DFrs7ieAsZbA8t9UBSQpystdKaOoFSI9xqdgjjFdrqXPoAYWSO65khHB6owVTgTrdRmXVOCrKXgV3I_Yx4E-N8ZGYO7r8AyytDaRg88rOs8.AeJZlSPx5mEi3LAJMxkIzn0HIq0lYAKACSf9gTyqSGI&dib_tag=se&keywords=Faraday+key+pouch&qid=1720816958&sprefix=faraday+key+pouch%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-4-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1&smid=A2SJP25BDBFTVK
 

when you wish to drive take it out of the pouch

once you are parked put it back in pouch.

meercat simples

[Cyker]

Top Tip: When pasting Amazon links, you only need to paste up to the 10 character alpha-numeric part; The rest is unnecessary, so the above could be replaced with:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BEEWAY-Faraday-Pouch-Keys-Pack/dp/B0CLDCBVJG/

and still work!

[Paul john]

16 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Top Tip: When pasting Amazon links, you only need to paste up to the 10 character alpha-numeric part; The rest is unnecessary, so the above could be replaced with:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BEEWAY-Faraday-Pouch-Keys-Pack/dp/B0CLDCBVJG/

and still work!

Meh

[J2024IE]

i just turn the car key off, if i am not going to be using the car for a while.

 

[Mjolinor]

9 hours ago, Paul john said:

Meh

Same with eBay, first bit + number.

 

[Haliotis]

12 hours ago, Paul john said:

You guys are over thinking this. 

Purchase one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BEEWAY-Faraday-Pouch-Keys-Pack/dp/B0CLDCBVJG/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=3AVPZ2BB1S36K&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3q_BWrlr2ZHifJ5SGVIglFMGVAc5Cws4GRaKkZI2PmD7m07hBURLlZ298Vtar9y61zq8B6qo5BVHCKTWKnJcpHAc7D_A0yJ-qrj6LYskzz390grz6xueDU4OynsWjdRVk_v-R9ywDe_bUyDQ0waFXnMYGDfGc5pQ4QngBS1FKr9LFntW8mZgdYJzbxwB3kb4DFrs7ieAsZbA8t9UBSQpystdKaOoFSI9xqdgjjFdrqXPoAYWSO65khHB6owVTgTrdRmXVOCrKXgV3I_Yx4E-N8ZGYO7r8AyytDaRg88rOs8.AeJZlSPx5mEi3LAJMxkIzn0HIq0lYAKACSf9gTyqSGI&dib_tag=se&keywords=Faraday+key+pouch&qid=1720816958&sprefix=faraday+key+pouch%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-4-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1&smid=A2SJP25BDBFTVK
 

when you wish to drive take it out of the pouch

once you are parked put it back in pouch.

meercat simples

Paul, what you have shown is exactly what I have got - one pouch for each fob.  I cannot see where there is any inconvenience worth noting.  It has never been my habit to have my car keys on the same bunch as my house keys - I don’t like them jangling around the steering column plus, lose the bunch and you’ve lost the lot, and possibly got yourself stranded.

Simple really - just before leaving home I tip the fob out of its pouch and put the whole thing in my pocket. The car unlocks as soon as I grip the door handle, and the car responds to the controls.   Arriving at destination (e.g., supermarket), lock car and put fob back in its pouch.  On exiting supermarket, same procedure as leaving home.

I’m not a fan of the keyless system, but I am perfectly capable of adapting to it.  When I see how some people fiddle endlessly with their iPhones, I do wonder how they can possibly deem the Keyless fob to be cumbersome.

[Red_Corolla]

On 7/12/2024 at 2:04 PM, Red_Corolla said:

I have a question of my own: Where is the antenna positioned within the car and how does it reliably detect whether the fob is inside or outside of the car? For example, if I accidentaly leave my fob in the door bin when I alight, then close the door and attempt to lock it by touching the outside handle, it rightly refuses to work, but how does it know which side of the door skin the fob is located? On other occasions, I have (unwittingly) tried to lock my keys in the boot and, again, been thwarted by the car's superior intellect. There must be some method of establishing that the signal is received from outside the periphery - what is it?

Found the answer: The antennas are outside of the car, in the door handles themselves. So the signal transmitted by the fob can't penetrate the body of the car, and doesn't need to. I expect that's also the reason you can't have keyless ignition when keyless entry is turned off - no interior antenna to complete the disarming procedure.

[Haliotis]

14 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

Found the answer: The antennas are outside of the car, in the door handles themselves. So the signal transmitted by the fob can't penetrate the body of the car, and doesn't need to. I expect that's also the reason you can't have keyless ignition when keyless entry is turned off - no interior antenna to complete the disarming procedure.

I’m not sure this is absolutely correct.  A week or two ago, after entering the car, I absentmindedly put my fob back in its Faraday pouch, and then for a moment was left wondering why the car wouldn’t start.

[Red_Corolla]

3 hours ago, Haliotis said:

I’m not sure this is absolutely correct.  A week or two ago, after entering the car, I absentmindedly put my fob back in its Faraday pouch, and then for a moment was left wondering why the car wouldn’t start.

OK, stand corrected. I just thought it might be the reason why you can't have keyless start with the entry system disabled.

I know that the keyless start is not fussy about how close the fob is, as long as it's  somewhere inside the vehicle. I have collected my car from the airport before and forgotten to remove the key from my luggage before placing it in the boot, then driven the car home without even realising. That's a fair distance from the start button in an estate car and another thing that perhaps misled me.

[Cyker]

From what I've read, there are a bunch of active antennas in the keyless system and they are constantly pinging for a Smart key; The car triangulates any replies it gets to figure out where the key is so it can tell how close it is, if it's near one of the doors, and if it's inside the car or not.