3 and 4 cylinder engine.

[Yaris_Cross]

A member mentioned the 130hp being a 4 cylinder the other day in a thread about the 3 cylinder being a bit rough (sorry cannot find the thread) i would prefer a 4 cylinder but cannot find any info about it in fact all i can find are articles saying the same as this one so my question is is there a 4 cylinder Yaris Cross?

The new Yaris Cross Hybrid 130 uses the same 1.5-litre petrol engine as the existing 116hp version (which will from now on be badged as Hybrid 115) but gets an upgraded gearbox with a more powerful electric motor and a new electronic control unit, giving it a boost to 130hp, while the electric motor’s torque rises from 141Nm to 185Nm.

That results in a half-a-second improvement in the 0-100km/h time (now down to 10.7 seconds), and the 80-120km/h overtaking benchmark is brought down by 0.4 seconds to 8.9 seconds. Fuel economy is quoted at between 4.5 and 5.2 litres per 100km on the WLTP cycle, barely any higher than the 4.5-5.1 litres per 100km quoted for the Hybrid 115.

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/13331/Toyota-Yaris-Cross-gets-more-powerful-hybrid#:~:text=The new Yaris Cross Hybrid,electric motor's torque rises from

[Yaris_Cross]

I believe the noise and vibration is caused by the engine not having a balancer shafts does this mean its going to be less durable than a 4 cylinder when it gets to high mileage as stated below?

Do 3-cylinder engines need balance shafts?
3 cylinders will cause a primary moment about the No. 2 cylinder. In order to eliminate this out-of-balance moment, a single balance shaft has been attached to the cylinder block so that engine durability and ride comfort may be further improved.

 

[flash22]

The 130 uses the same engine, it has an improved electric motor with a different tune

the hybrid uses the gearbox and damper plate to smooth out the imbalance, but 3 cylinders will always sound different due to the firing order 1-2-3 you soon get used to a 3 cylinder especially with the way the engine revs in the hybrid, I went from a 2016 to a 22 plate go test drive a few

the 3 cylinder is well proven, 1.5 in the Yaris (M15-FXE), 2.0 in the corolla and 1.6 Yaris GR what will make 800bhp with some mods

only 4 cylinders are in the CHR, corolla and above

[skidlid]

6 minutes ago, flash22 said:

the 3 cylinder is well proven, 1.5 in the Yaris (M15-FXE), 2.0 in the corolla

The 2 litre in the Corolla (like the 1.8) is a 4 cylinder unit.

The Yaris is the wife's 3rd 3 cylinder motor since 2015. After the initial shock we got to like them. The Yaris one is without doubt the quietist once warmed up.

[Yaris_Cross]

Is this how it works - first video discusses the damper the second discusses how the rest works

 

 

 

 

[Yaris_Cross]

2 hours ago, Yaris_Cross said:

A member mentioned the 130hp being a 4 cylinder the other day in a thread about the 3 cylinder being a bit rough (sorry cannot find the thread) i would prefer a 4 cylinder but cannot find any info about it in fact all i can find are articles saying the same as this one so my question is is there a 4 cylinder Yaris Cross?

Seems i got the wrong end of the stick its not a 130hp four cylinder according to this the 130hp has a balancer shaft, does anyone have a link to this info, thanks.

 

Quote

You can either trade it in for one with the 130HP engine, which does have a balancer shaft, or just drive faster as it gets smoother the higher it revs

 

[Cyker]

Ugh I hate it when this happens - I just had a good hunt around but can no longer find anything referencing improvements to engine vibration or the addition of a balancer shaft to the Yaris 130. Did I just hallucinate the whole thing!?   

I could have sworn it was in the press release and brochure too but I can't find the original of either and only ones I can find don't look like the ones I remember!

[SDR]

I don't know about the Yaris/Cross but the Lexus LBX uses a more powerful version of the 1.5 3 pot (136 PS or thereabouts).   I've definitely read that this has a balancer shaft.

[TonyHSD]

11 minutes ago, SDR said:

I don't know about the Yaris/Cross but the Lexus LBX uses a more powerful version of the 1.5 3 pot (136 PS or thereabouts).   I've definitely read that this has a balancer shaft.

But these two cars has same engine units with balance shafts and the different power output comes from upgraded electric motor 

 

[SDR]

29 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

But these two cars has same engine units with balance shafts and the different power output comes from upgraded electric motor 

 

Yes, I realise that the extra power and torque comes from the uprated electric motor, but the Lexus LBX version of the 1.5 ICE  has allegedly been modified to include a balancer shaft which the original Toyota 115 version didn't have?

I think that the issue is whether the uprated Toyota 130 version, for the Yaris/Cross, now has a balancer shaft too (and I don't know).

FWIW, I had a test drive in a Yaris (115) before I ordered the Corolla.  I didn't notice the engine being particularly vibey (or noisy - but any engine noise would have been drowned out by the tyre/road noise - just like the Corolla 😁).

[hind]

Well they already included balancer shaft in non-hybrid version of this engine (M15A-FKS) so I guess it is not that hard to reuse this design with the next development iteration?

[flash22]

M15-FXE is the eco engine tuned for use in the hybrid, no balance shaft and Multi port injection as used in the Yaris, cross and LBX - 130 power gains are all via an uprated motor and a different tune

M15-FKS has a balance shaft, different cams and is direct injection (non-hybrid)

Mk4 Yaris and cross are all Hybrid in the UK

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/new-toyota-yaris/

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/pdf/230301-Yaris-Tech-Specs.pdf

https://media.lexus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/pdf/240607-LBX-Tech-Specs.pdf

 

Yes the Lexus uses the FXE but has a balancer shaft for reduced NVH

https://www.lexus.eu/new-cars/lbx-world-premiere/performance-and-powertrain

"The LBX’s luxury status is witnessed by the lengths Lexus has gone to manage noise and vibration (NVH). These include adding a balancer shaft to the engine to reduce vibration that can generate a booming effect in the cabin. Special attention has been paid to the doors where damping sheets have been introduced to suppress high frequency noise but enhance low frequency noise to give a distinct and pleasing sound."

[Trewithy]

The LBX Does indeed have a balancer shaft and has also had some minor tweaks to improve engine refinement that have resulted in an extra 2BHP.   For the updated Yaris Cross I have read all the press releases on the Toyota Media website as I am interested in buying one.  There are details about the numerous improvements that have been made but no reference to a balancer shaft on the 130 engine.  If there was a balancer shaft I am sure they would have mentioned it as they have gone into great detail about the other improvements they have made.  

[Cyker]

Ahhh maybe I was thinking of the Lexus after all - The blurb flash22 posted reads how I remember it being.

Maybe it was only the Lexus variant that got the balancer shaft after all, and not the Toyota 130  

 

Now I'm wondering, does the Toyota 130 even get the special hydraulic engine mount that's supposed to dampen vibration even more???

[Trewithy]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Now I'm wondering, does the Toyota 130 even get the special hydraulic engine mount that's supposed to dampen vibration even more???

yes it does.

[anchorman]

On 7/8/2024 at 7:25 PM, flash22 said:

The 130 uses the same engine, it has an improved electric motor with a different tune

the hybrid uses the gearbox and damper plate to smooth out the imbalance, but 3 cylinders will always sound different due to the firing order 1-2-3 you soon get used to a 3 cylinder especially with the way the engine revs in the hybrid, I went from a 2016 to a 22 plate go test drive a few

the 3 cylinder is well proven, 1.5 in the Yaris (M15-FXE), 2.0 in the corolla and 1.6 Yaris GR what will make 800bhp with some mods

only 4 cylinders are in the CHR, corolla and above

Hmmm, I don’t agree that the hybrid uses the damper or the gearbox to smooth out vibration because the damper should never slip for any other reason than a major discrepancy and the gearbox just doesn’t do anything to cancel vibration.  It goes along with your signature which hints at a JT VIN being Japanese built which is positively incorrect despite me hinting numerous times, now I’m telling you - you’re wrong.  

[TonyHSD]

I think what flash means by clutch damper cancel vibrations is that this acts as counter weight, similar to crankshaft pulley that turns nothing, no auxiliary belt but it is still there. 
Either way it is very unlikely if 130 in lbx and Mazda has balance shafts that Yaris and Yaris cross will not. 

[flash22]

the damper acts the same as the centre of a clutch it reduces the initial torque shock and dampens the transfer, with a 3 cylinder it will act as a harmonic balancer as it is effectively constantly coupled to the gearbox input - think of it as 1 in 4 strokes is a controlled explosion and is essentially sending a shock wave down the con rod on to the crank turning it into torque (aka rotational turning force)

 

 

 

[Trewithy]

LBX is made in Japan, Yaris and Cross made in France. Where are the engines made?

[Cyker]

Gah, I forget... I think it's either Wales or Poland??

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Wales

Isn't that Airbus wings?

[hind]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I think it's either Wales or Poland??

Engines are made in Poland 🙂

  

2 hours ago, Trewithy said:

Yaris and Cross made in France

and Czechia 🙂 in Kolin but IIRC RHD's were made in France only?

[flash22]

Japanese cars (Yaris, Grumpy and LBX) will have Japanese-built engines produced at Toyota Iwate (east Japan)

Yaris and Grumpy Japanese-made cars are not for the UK or EU market

 

[Russ Taylor]

I was interested in the Balancer Shaft issue raised in this thread.

My reading of all is that our Cross 114HP Hybrid M15A-FXE engines do not have a balancer shaft. “Balancer shaft is not used - the engine operating range at hybrids allows it.”

Non hybrid FXS (not our part of the world  guess) does have a balancer shaft. “The balancer shaft is driven directly from the crankshaft via a polymer gear. The shaft with supports assembly is bolted to the crankcase for ease of maintenance.”

Clearly Hybrid has a much restricted engine Rev range and thus less variation in out of balance and doesn’t need the balancer shaft.

Lexus LBX 130HP has added the balancer shaft. Along with other “goodies” I guess.

Toyota Cross 129HP version does not say they have added the balancer shaft but says it adds 4 other bits and pieces to improve engine vibration/harshness. They would have said if they had added it I think.

So all FXE’s are not the same!! Lexus is clearly “posher”!!
I’m happy with my Toyota Cross as it happens so am not tempted!!

Hope that assists peeps!

 

[Mojo1010]

On 7/8/2024 at 7:25 PM, flash22 said:

The 130 uses the same engine, it has an improved electric motor with a different tune

the hybrid uses the gearbox and damper plate to smooth out the imbalance, but 3 cylinders will always sound different due to the firing order 1-2-3 you soon get used to a 3 cylinder especially with the way the engine revs in the hybrid, I went from a 2016 to a 22 plate go test drive a few

the 3 cylinder is well proven, 1.5 in the Yaris (M15-FXE), 2.0 in the corolla and 1.6 Yaris GR what will make 800bhp with some mods

only 4 cylinders are in the CHR, corolla and above

Welcome to the MK4 club. How does it compare to the MK3? Also how is the comfort of 17" low profile wheels/tyres.