Safety systems: Intelligent Speed Assistance, LDA, etc

[Stuart P]

Just taken delivery of Corolla 1.8 Design TS. Generally pleased with it after previously owning Peugeots. Some annoying things I am baffled by on Corolla. The speed limit and exceeding speed limit warning is the worst. Living in an urban area with constant changes between 20 and 30mph zones results in constant beeping from the car. I worked out how to change it to visual only in the settings menu but was baffled to discover that at the end of the journey when you switch the engine off it defaults back to audible and visual. So at the start of every journey you have to go back into the menu to reset it again. Is there really no way of setting it to visual only all the time?

[Roy124]

What is the warning actually telling you?

[Dylanfan]

2019 Corolla does not work like that, once switched off it stays off. May be on newer cars it’s different, have you spoken to the main dealer, they may be able the change it.

[AndrueC]

The more I hear about recent models the more I'm being put off considering them. What's the list of 'resetting settings' up to now?

All models:

• Brake hold.
• Cruise control.

Later models have added:

• LTA.
• Speed camera alert.

Anything else I've missed? I think the entire idea is flawed. We shouldn't have to keep changing things every time we get in the car to drive. Why can't it leave things set the way we last had them?

[Stuart P]

10 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

The more I hear about recent models the more I'm being put off considering them. What's the list of 'resetting settings' up to now?

All models:

• Brake hold.
• Cruise control.

Later models have added:

• LTA.
• Speed camera alert.

Anything else I've missed? I think the entire idea is flawed. We shouldn't have to keep changing things every time we get in the car to drive. Why can't it leave things set the way we last had them?

I agree. I don’t mind having the option of an alarm sounding every time it passes a speed limit sign and every time you go 1mph over the speed limit if people want that, but I want the option to switch it off and stay off. Apparently that’s not possible. Every time you get in the car whether it’s for a 5 min journey to the supermarket or a 3 hour motorway drive you have to spend time entering the complex menu system resetting your previous settings

[Bper]

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to permanently set the speed limit warning to visual only.The system seems to be designed to reset to the default (audible and visual) upon engine shut off.

Here are a few options you can consider:

Accept the audible warning: This might not be ideal, but it's the most straightforward solution. The beeping serves as a reminder to be mindful of your speed, especially in changing zones.

Not ideal but part of the design.😄

 

[Stuart P]

11 minutes ago, Bper said:

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to permanently set the speed limit warning to visual only.The system seems to be designed to reset to the default (audible and visual) upon engine shut off.

Here are a few options you can consider:

Accept the audible warning: This might not be ideal, but it's the most straightforward solution. The beeping serves as a reminder to be mindful of your speed, especially in changing zones.

Not ideal but part of the design.😄

 

Ok thanks for that info. I appreciate your comments it’s just in urban driving with regular speed limit changes it’s annoying and actually distracting. My previous cars have gone this visually and that’s been enough for me to drive sensibly and within speed limit.

[fred88]

I'm afraid this sort of technology isn't reliable enough for it to be doing stuff like this, IMHO, anyway.

[Cyker]

Absolutely agree - This is all the fault of government types just dictating things without thinking about the consequences or logistics. While I applaud the sentiment of zero road deaths, any sane logical person would see this is a practical impossibility, short of removing all roads (Then what's next zero pavement deaths, zero field deaths?).

But, nothing is impossible for those who don't have to do it themselves, as the saying goes, so they carry on forcing these betatest-quality systems to be put on live vehicles.

The worst thing about them is they removes driver agency - It is extremely scary when the car safety systems unilaterally take control away from you, especially when they end up putting you in more danger than you'd otherwise have been, and there is no way to override them.

God only knows what it'll be like when steer-by-wire becomes the norm and it starts overriding your steering inputs to avoid a perceived danger - At least right now I can forcibly take back steering control, unlike accelerator and brakes!

[RabButler]

7 hours ago, Stuart P said:

Just taken delivery of Corolla 1.8 Design TS. Generally pleased with it after previously owning Peugeots. Some annoying things I am baffled by on Corolla. The speed limit and exceeding speed limit warning is the worst. Living in an urban area with constant changes between 20 and 30mph zones results in constant beeping from the car. I worked out how to change it to visual only in the settings menu but was baffled to discover that at the end of the journey when you switch the engine off it defaults back to audible and visual. So at the start of every journey you have to go back into the menu to reset it again. Is there really no way of setting it to visual only all the time?

May be stating the obvious, but have you tried editing your driver profile to save the setting once you have changed it?

[sportse]

On my 23 facelift model I’ve set it to visual only with a 5mph allowance (to cover the speedometer inaccuracy at 70mph) and it keeps the settings when you restart. 

I’ve set the car to load my driver settings from the key when I use the car. 
 

PS I believe that in the very latest models like the new CHR they do default to always on after restarting as it’s the new EU rules apparently. Unfortunately the systems aren’t reliable. 

[Chippy01]

If it's chiming all the time, you must be driving faster than the speed limit all the time, surely??

Have you tried turning off the RSA menu completely?
Either you can have it on or have it off. No half measures from Mr T.

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Chippy01 said:

If it's chiming all the time, you must be driving faster than the speed limit all the time, surely??

Only if it's an accurate system. Which it isn't. I know of three problems that the '19 system has:

• Approaching Aynho in Northamptonshire. The village has speed limit countdown signs and my car detects them as actual limit signs so shows the road as being 30mph a hundred yards earlier than is correct.
• The A75 in Dumfries and Galloway. It has signs showing a 40mph limit for HGVs and the car detects those and thinks they apply to it.
• As you drive out of Banbury, Oxfordshire on the A422 the car detects the 30 sign for Wildmere Road and thinks that it's 30 from that roundabout to the M40 - it's actually 50 mph.

Actually there is a fourth case. A mapping error resulting in the car thinking that the A422 between the A43 and Banbury Road, Brackley, Northamptonshire is 50mph. I tried to fix it twice but the update didn't make it into the maps before my free period ran out so I don't know if it ever made it into the mapping data.

The speed limit detection is poor. Personally I use it as a last resort for those rare situations when I'm not sure. It's useful I suppose for those people who don't pay attention to road signs but I suspect that a fair number of speeders just don't give a damn anyway.

Until/unless the system works reliably it should not be beeping at us because that's a distraction.

[Chippy01]

15 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Only if it's an accurate system. Which it isn't. I know of three problems that the '19 system has:

• Approaching Aynho in Northamptonshire. The village has speed limit countdown signs and my car detects them as actual limit signs so shows the road as being 30mph a hundred yards earlier than is correct.
• The A75 in Dumfries and Galloway. It has signs showing a 40mph limit for HGVs and the car detects those and thinks they apply to it.
• As you drive out of Banbury, Oxfordshire on the A422 the car detects the 30 sign for Wildmere Road and thinks that it's 30 from that roundabout to the M40 - it's actually 50 mph.

Actually there is a fourth case. A mapping error resulting in the car thinking that the A422 between the A43 and Banbury Road, Brackley, Northamptonshire is 50mph. I tried to fix it twice but the update didn't make it into the maps before my free period ran out so I don't know if it ever made it into the mapping data.

The speed limit detection is poor. Personally I use it as a last resort for those rare situations when I'm not sure. It's useful I suppose for those people who don't pay attention to road signs but I suspect that a fair number of speeders just don't give a damn anyway.

Until/unless the system works reliably it should not be beeping at us because that's a distraction.

OK. Wrong wording on my part.
Driving faster than the last speed limit sign that the system recognised, would be better.

I have a couple of areas around where I drive that the system will pick up the lower speed limit signs on the off ramps of an M-way, or sometimes even miss the relevant ones on the road I am on.

But at the end of it all, it is just a driving aid - not the be all and end all.
Unless you want full A.I. and autonomy - but that;s a differnt thing altogether.
And unfortunately, if various government legislations deem that these things be fitted with a turn off ability but a turn on default, there isn't much we ordinary Joe Soaps can do about it.

[Cyker]

The Road sign recognition is beyond useless and completely unfit for purpose, especially when paired with a speed limiter.

It needs to be paired with a constantly updated GPS system or something.

With signs being obstructed, signs on trucks and vans, and it reading signs in roads you're not on, it is just no use at all, esp. with the government cheaping out on signs so instead of regularly repeating signs you often only get them at the beginning of a speed zone, which the system will likey miss.

I frequently drive on A-roads while the RSA is telling me the speed limit is 20mph, and it often thinks the speed limit is 80mph or even 120mph in an urban NSL (i.e. 30mph) zone. A total waste of silicon.

 

[Roy124]

How about hospitals,  car parks etc tell you the limit is 5 or 10.  How many show 20/30 when you exit?

[Roker]

11 hours ago, Stuart P said:

I agree. I don’t mind having the option of an alarm sounding every time it passes a speed limit sign and every time you go 1mph over the speed limit if people want that, but I want the option to switch it off and stay off. Apparently that’s not possible. Every time you get in the car whether it’s for a 5 min journey to the supermarket or a 3 hour motorway drive you have to spend time entering the complex menu system resetting your previous settings

My 2020 Corolla never beebs for over speed the speed icon just goes to red

[Roker]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The Road sign recognition is beyond useless and completely unfit for purpose, especially when paired with a speed limiter.

It needs to be paired with a constantly updated GPS system or something.

With signs being obstructed, signs on trucks and vans, and it reading signs in roads you're not on, it is just no use at all, esp. with the government cheaping out on signs so instead of regularly repeating signs you often only get them at the beginning of a speed zone, which the system will likey miss.

I frequently drive on A-roads while the RSA is telling me the speed limit is 20mph, and it often thinks the speed limit is 80mph or even 120mph in an urban NSL (i.e. 30mph) zone. A total waste of silicon.

 

I like the speed alert, if I visually miss a speed sign it's there on my display from an FR actual sign. My Garmin works from existing data and constantly gives the wrong speed limit, if I believe it I will end up getting a speeding fine , where as the Toyota does not tell lies if it misses a sign it shows nothing

[Cyker]

The problem is you can't trust it - It often misreads signs, reads the wrong sign or just misses a sign completely. It's maybe 70% accurate for me which just isn't good enough for real world use...

[sportse]

4 hours ago, Cyker said:

The problem is you can't trust it - It often misreads signs, reads the wrong sign or just misses a sign completely. It's maybe 70% accurate for me which just isn't good enough for real world use...

Yes, it’s very unreliable unfortunately. I just have mine as an aid but don’t rely on it. 
 

I’ve driven loads of miles on the motorway at 70 when it thinks the limit is 20. It picked up the sign entering the services but not exiting it. It’s not just Toyota, the Honda road sign assist is the same. 
 

other times it will miss a perfectly visible speed limit change by the roadside. Or pick up a limit from a side road. Honda did that too. 
 

the speed limits on my satnav tomtom or Waze are much more reliable. 

[AndrueC]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

with the government cheaping out on signs so instead of regularly repeating signs you often only get them at the beginning of a speed zone, which the system will likey miss.

An interesting point that. There was actually a legislation change a decade ago (ish) which meant that speed limit signs were no longer required just because there was a change of road (eg; at a junction). They are only required if the limit has actually changed.

I found this out because of that stretch of A422 I mentioned. When you turn off the A43 at Brackley (dual carriageway) the A422 is single carriageway but there are no speed limit signs at that point. That struck me as odd because clearly there is a limit change from 70 to 60. I queried it on a forum and it was pointed out that the limit hasn't changed. It's NSL on the dual carriageway and NSL on the A422.

There are NSL repeaters half way along the A422 and the Banbury road junction (about a mile) then large 50 signs which remain in force until Middleton Cheney some eight miles on (apart from a 30 section through a village).

Ironically the A422 has two speed limit problems now.

• A lot of people don't realise they can drive at 60 on the short section.
• A lot of people don't give a damn about the 50 section.

[AndrueC]

2 hours ago, sportse said:

the speed limits on my satnav tomtom or Waze are much more reliable. 

I was a bit surprised recently to see that Google Maps hasn't updated to show the numerous 20 limits springing up around North Oxfordshire.

You know I was initially sanguine about that because I do like to stick to the posted limits and have often chided people for doing 80 on a motorway on the grounds that it doesn't make much practical difference. And I still maintain that position.

But the other week I had to take an alternate route to a golf club and ended up driving through Bloxham (part of Banbury). I think it was ten minutes driving at 20mph. That does get tedious.

[Roy124]

There are stipulated criteria for different limits: number of dwelling units, school etc.

One road I used to challenge had in a very short order, 60 approaching a school,  20, 60, 30.  And a ducks crossing sign between the 20 and 30.

One day, in a 0-60 in 11 seconds car,  I tried to see what I could achieve in that 60 section

I wrote to Highways,  but them's the rules. 

So, on another road, straight for miles,  30 bang in the middle for a short distance outside the school.   But the school entrance was on a side road with NSL.  I made them change the limits.  Them's the rules. 

You make the rules. Fact, logic and reason go out the window and you can quote the rule book when things go !Removed! up.

[Roy124]

I mentioned dwelling units as a criterion.  The other one is deaths and VSI.

What a !removed 😀! criterion. 

[Dylanfan]

My’n pick up a school 20 sign that is an advisory between certain times and another where the limit has been reduced from 40 to 30, it picks up the 30 sign then immediately changes to 40👹