Safety systems: Intelligent Speed Assistance, LDA, etc

[Roker]

There's a road near me (Ireland) in a distance of approx 1 kilometer changes from 100 k to 80 to 60 to 50 although crazy the Toyota system picks them up

[wivenhoe]

Imagine the chaos when the EU (UK then just follows) mandate the speed limiters with no way to turn them off. They have said that in cases of emergency you will be able to very temporarily accelerate through but the system will then enforce the limit. Oh what joy driving along a motorway with everyone limited to the 50 speed on the roundel of a foreign truck or the 20mph limit in the services without a derestricted sign on the on-slip. 

[sportse]

They could make a good system but it would require a database of every road and updated instantly with any speed limit changes from roadworks, gantries, etc. 
 

you can get the motorway gantry temporary speed limits through road angel in your car, so the data is available and can be transmitted. 
 

at present the systems aren’t any good. On Honda it has problems even reading the 50 and 60 signs as it would confuse the two. 
 

one way round the problems I’ve seen is through a custom drive mode. I saw a car review where drive mode was one button on the steering wheel. You set what safety systems you want on or off and it’s just one press to set them after restarting. 

[Cyker]

The fundamental problem with camera based systems is they can only work with what they see - A common problem is merging/diverging roads with different speed limits - The RSA can see both signs and will just randomly pick one, whereas to a human which can think it is obvious which one is for their road and which is for the other road.

Without full self-driving levels of computing power there is no way the rudimentary system used in any manufacturer's RSA is going to be able to handle even trivial things like that, which is why they are at best useless and at worse dangerous unless they are at least paired with a supplementary system like GPS to try and bring their accuracy levels up.

They are absolutely unfit to be tied to a speed limiter - If they do that, I can imagine every cyclist is going to wear a shirt with a big (5) on the back and everyone'll be stuck at 5mph!  

 

[Magsmith]

On 3/2/2024 at 5:58 PM, Chippy01 said:

If it's chiming all the time, you must be driving faster than the speed limit all the time, surely??

Have you tried turning off the RSA menu completely?
Either you can have it on or have it off. No half measures from Mr T.

How do you turn off the RSA menu please?

 

[Roy124]

Margaret, probably not possible. 

[CassUK]

Blame the EU - even though we are (allegedly) out of it, all cars manufactured for use in Europe (that includes the UK) has to have speed limiting technology which will only get more proscriptive as it develops.

Worth a read:

https://www.webuyanycar.com/guides/car-ownership/speed-limiters/

[FROSTYBALLS]

15 hours ago, Magsmith said:

How do you turn off the RSA menu please?

Already answered in your topic in the Aygo forum.

[fred88]

My car doesn't warn but I have a third party device that does and although the warnings at mobile / fixed speed cameras are useful  they are often for the wrong limit. It only recently stopped beeping at me for the 50mph average speed zone on the M49 when it's been 70 for a couple of years.

Basically I don't think the technology is up to it.

[Roy124]

Roger, you need to report such errors to the appropriate company.  In Toyota's Smart Connect their provider, Mapbox had not implemented the 20 zone for London.  I told them and they say they have now done it.

If anyone using Smart Connect is in the London ULEZ can they say if the limit is correctly shown as 20mph?

[fred88]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

Roger, you need to report such errors to the appropriate company.  In Toyota's Smart Connect their provider, Mapbox had not implemented the 20 zone for London.  I told them and they say they have now done it.

If anyone using Smart Connect is in the London ULEZ can they say if the limit is correctly shown as 20mph?

I do sometimes but there's too many!

[GazzaMant]

So, I cannot turn off the audible speed limit exceeding warning on my new 2024 Toyota Corolla ........ great! ..... I can get used to it I suppose but it is annoying and also especially when you have a wife in the car with you also moaning about the warning every time it goes off ....... double annoyance !!!

 

[Roy124]

5 minutes ago, GazzaMant said:

 especially when you have a wife in the car with you also moaning about the warning every time it goe off ....... double annoyance !!!

 

There's a clue there, can't quite put my finger on it.

Wait a minute, something will occur to me.

[Roy124]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:36 AM, fred88 said:

My car doesn't warn but I have a third party device that does and although the warnings at mobile / fixed speed cameras are useful  they are often for the wrong limit. 

I used to use POI Warner and it has a good database with user input for mobile cams.  You can also access their maps and adjust the camera aspect cones.

I had a good rapport with Monica and after correcting many camera error she sent me a POI Pilot 6000 for free.  Tiny device,  USB charging and Battery lasts over 8 hrs.

Who is your device from?

 

[fred88]

Speed Cheetah. It's OK in that it alerts you to mobile / fixed sites but the values are often incorrect. It is also location not route focused so will alert to nearby cameras that are not on your route. Quite funny sometimes when your obviously on a high speed road and it warns me of a fixed camera and the limit is 30mph. It also gives me my real speed and that leads to my main concern should I ever get a car with audible excess speed warning. Ie incorrect data, camera missreads, and the fact that my speedo over reads by at least 10%.

[Roy124]

Fred, very true which is where POI Warner worked well though it did demand user correction. 

If I noted a false call I had to make a mental note, then call up the map on my computer and adjust the arcs.  In the case of a 2-way camera it did not follow the arcs were 180 to each other.

It did demand a high level of user input to tune it.

[twintopp]

being a bit deaf if the warning is as low in volume as the speed camera warning i will not hear it.

[J2024IE]

on my 23 GEN5 TS  i have the audio speed alert turned off, and it stays off, speed alert is visual only.

i noticed from time to time the car shows speed limit as 110kph, however there is no 110kph speed limit here.

 

 

[atrinity]

This is so frustrating. I collected my Corolla TS 2014 and this feature starts to annoy me. I am autist and I am very sensitive with sounds. While I respect speed limits, the Road Sign Assistance is not 100% accurate and in a few situations it is unable to read the signs properly...

So I sent an email to Toyota and it was the answer:

We welcome the opportunity to advise in respect of the RSA System, this feature alerts drivers if the system judges that the vehicle is being driven over the speed limit.

It should be noted, this is not a decision made by Toyota as a manufacturer, this safety feature is a European legal requirement on newly homologated vehicles. It is mandatory for Toyota/Lexus to have this feature, Intelligent Speed Assistance, in new vehicles.

This feature can be disabled at the start of each driving cycle, through the multimedia system on your vehicle. Although we note you are not happy with this feature, Toyota prides itself on the safety of our vehicles and we would encourage our customers to utilise safety assist systems when driving.

As part of this regulation, we cannot disable the feature permanently on your vehicle. You can find some information on this at the following link to the RSA website, under The new General Safety Regulation area, https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/road-users/legislation#:~:text=From%20July%202022%20for%20new,that%20exceed%2065%20km%2Fh)
The following link explains the requirements for vehicles to have one of 4 options to notify drivers when they exceed the speed limit. In the case of Toyota, the acoustic warning was the preferred choice. Intelligent speed assistance (ISA) set to become mandatory across Europe | European Road Safety Charter (europa.eu)

I apologise that we cannot offer you a more favourable answer in this case. I hope you now understand that this feature is a mandatory requirement and not something that Toyota can disable permanently. As a manufacturer, Toyota will always prioritise customer safety and we encourage our customers to use the safety assist systems in the vehicle.

We appreciate your feedback and assure you of our best assistance at all times.

----------------

I hope everyone send emails asking for some change, something that makes easier to desactivated the alarm with "one click" or something like that. I hope they improve it, it's very annoying to navigate in all menus everytime...

[FROSTYBALLS]

16 minutes ago, atrinity said:

I hope everyone send emails asking for some change, something that makes easier to desactivated the alarm with "one click" or something like that. I hope they improve it, it's very annoying to navigate in all menus everytime...

Pointless exercise. It's the legislation that becomes effective this year. Full stop.

[Roy124]

Every time I turn left out of the 40 zone on the A158 into the A15 with NSL my car flags up an excess speed warning. 

There is a deresticted sign but the system does not see it.

We need to be able to flag such failures.  The problem is identifying the proper authority,  an authority that will take ownership of the issue.  It might be a Highways issue,  a Toyota issue,  or all cars issue.

[Cyker]

The people you need to write to are your MPs, not Toyota  (And previously, MEPs, before we left the EU and threw away our ability to directly influence european legislation...)

[FROSTYBALLS]

The legislation has been effective from 2022 (for cars with new Type Approval), so really too late to get changes made

[Cyker]

Never too late to change the law! Feels like they're doing it every other week...

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

The people you need to write to are your MPs, not Toyota  (And previously, MEPs, before we left the EU and threw away our ability to directly influence european legislation...)

I have an auto acknowledgement but nothing else yet.

I have had reasonable success with Highways (Lincolnshire and Rutland) getting limits shown properly.   Even had one rather splendid village sign replaced as it showed 30 mph into the village with the actual limit not starting until 100 yards later.