Increasing range of EV on 2024 Toyota Rav PHEV GX

[DavidinDerbyshire]

WE have (mostly apart from the EU regs) enjoyed our latest Toyota and have now completed 850 miles in six weeks. Each charge seems to increase the available range. It started at 44m and is now 55 miles.  Almost all of our mileage has been EV apart from one trip across Sheffield via the M1 when I used HV on the way out and EV on the way back.  With our previous RAV HV we would normally have put a couple of tanks of petrol in by now.  We have used less than a gallon and so far there is no noticeable effect on our Octopus bills. A major factor in the purchase was the analysis of our use of the car which is mostly sub 40 mile trips and some days none at all but with three or four times a year trips of over 200 miles plus touring mileages. I am delighted with it. 

[ernieb]

The temperature will make a difference to EV range but I found that when I got my PHEV back in ‘21 the range also got better. I seemed to think that Toyota maybe perform some kind of EV running in process to allow the traction Battery to stabilise. Also the car learns your driving style and I also think that as the driver I become more aware of how to get the best out of the EV. (Lift and coast, anticipating traffic lights etc.)

[DavidinDerbyshire]

My figures for KwH per mile show variations according to terrain and speed. We are in a hilly district so some trips bring it down to 3KwH/m. Whereas others can be as high as 9KwH/m. I would guess our average is 5KwH/m and our overnight charges are also usually around 5KwH so I’m still trying to get my head round those figures!

[Mike2222]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:18 AM, DavidinDerbyshire said:

My figures for KwH per mile show variations according to terrain and speed. We are in a hilly district so some trips bring it down to 3KwH/m. Whereas others can be as high as 9KwH/m. I would guess our average is 5KwH/m and our overnight charges are also usually around 5KwH so I’m still trying to get my head round those figures!

Slightly pedantic point, but do you mean m/kwh, as in "miles per kilowatt-hour", as "kilowatt-hours per mile" would result in an EV range of 1.5-4 miles 😂! 

 

It seems somewhere around 2.8-3.5m/kWh is fairly typical for most on this forum, from previous similar threads, depending on driving style and local topography. I seem to 2.9-3.0 depending on time of year, personally, however I usually either do local hilly miles or motorway/dual carriageway commuting. Others with more urban profiles get consistently better numbers, I think. 

[DavidinDerbyshire]

24 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

Slightly pedantic point, but do you mean m/kwh, as in "miles per kilowatt-hour", as "

Pedantry forgiven. Thank you for pointing out my error. 

[ernieb]

My average over the last 2 years is 3.3 miles/Kwh. So winter and summer long and short distances. Overall I’m pretty happy with that given the weight of the car.

[philip42h]

EV efficiencies tend to be reported in Wh/mile (or Wh/km). The most efficient being around 240 Wh/mile (4.2 miles/kWh); the least efficient being around 390 Wh/mile (2.5 miles/kWh). The majority of EVs sit between 300 Wh/mile (3.3 miles/kWh) and 280 Wh/mile (3.5 miles/kWh) - so the RAV4 PHEV isn't doing badly at all!

[Cyker]

I find it hilarious you guys are getting 3-4miles/kWh when it seems most newer EVs struggle to get out of the 2's  

 

[Oscarmax]

That strange our 2023 are achieving similar figures

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

I find it hilarious you guys are getting 3-4miles/kWh when it seems most newer EVs struggle to get out of the 2's  

 

I guess they're lugging a massive Battery around. F = m * a. And W.D. = F * d.

 

 

[Torrox]

After 2500 miles my ev efficiency is 3.5 miles per kwh. Today after full charge myT app says 57.6 miles ev available.

[DavidinDerbyshire]

Update: At 950 miles we had 3.3m/KwH last night on a short 3 mile run and we have 54 miles available on the car read-out after a full overnight charge. App not working, as mentioned elsewhere. I am now making my peace with Octopus after a lively time contesting the smartmeter in my home following a switch to Octopus Intelligent Go. The latest account shows that I AM getting overnight charging at 6.9pence per KwH.   The smartmeter is still reading it at the normal unit rate. Doh!

[philip42h]

3 minutes ago, DavidinDerbyshire said:

The latest account shows that I AM getting overnight charging at 6.9pence per KwH.   The smartmeter is still reading it at the normal unit rate. Doh!

Be careful not to confuse the smart meter - the thing in the box that connects your electricity supply - with your in-home display - which takes information from the smart meter to display to the consumer.

I'm not too sure quite how the in-home display 'knows' the tariff rate that you are on, but it might be a simple case of switching it off, counting ten, switching it back on and waiting until it resynchs ... I don't know anything, but that's what I'd try next.

[Oscarmax]

2 hours ago, philip42h said:

Be careful not to confuse the smart meter - the thing in the box that connects your electricity supply - with your in-home display - which takes information from the smart meter to display to the consumer.

I'm not too sure quite how the in-home display 'knows' the tariff rate that you are on, but it might be a simple case of switching it off, counting ten, switching it back on and waiting until it resynchs ... I don't know anything, but that's what I'd try next.

We are on Octopus Agile the in home display is just an ornament, you need an octopus mini to sync with your smart phone.

[DavidinDerbyshire]

2 hours ago, philip42h said:

that's what I'd try nex

I’m just going to ignore it. I’m sure Gregg Jackson will have something up his sleeve.  Especially when he reads my email!!

[SpenToy]

I am currently getting the car reading 56miles for EV after a full charge, now we have had it for a while.  The Odo read 56 miles as well by the time the EV charge ran out, the last time pottering around the local roads.  Rather happy with that.

[DavidinDerbyshire]

1 minute ago, SpenToy said:

Rather happy with that.

I am delighted. There are arguments raging in The Times On Line comments showing that there are very strong opinions for and against EVs but I feel a bit aloof from all that with a genuinely green alternative that doesn’t have distance limitations. I shudder to think what it is like to have an EV and live in France where everywhere is so far from everywhere. It will be decades before French drivers give up their ICEs. 

[SpenToy]

1 hour ago, DavidinDerbyshire said:

I am delighted. There are arguments raging in The Times On Line comments showing that there are very strong opinions for and against EVs but I feel a bit aloof from all that with a genuinely green alternative that doesn’t have distance limitations. I shudder to think what it is like to have an EV and live in France where everywhere is so far from everywhere. It will be decades before French drivers give up their ICEs. 

Aloof is quite a good way of phrasing it.  Agreed, no range anxiety.

[GBgraham]

With this being my first Summer with the RAV4 I'm presuming this below is due to the high temperatures here at the moment. 

In July/August the daytime temperature has been circa 38degrees and night time is circa 30degrees with the latter being when I recharge 2300hrs on. Now with the hot weather I am only getting 78 kms showing after recharge (48.5mls) Here in Autumn, Winter and Spring we have plus temperatures which can usually go well into double figures and my recharge normally shows up as much as 85 kms (53mls). Also the range has dropped well off to the excessive use of a/c 

[philip42h]

58 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

With this being my first Summer with the RAV4 I'm presuming this below is due to the high temperatures here at the moment. 

In July/August the daytime temperature has been circa 38degrees and night time is circa 30degrees with the latter being when I recharge 2300hrs on. Now with the hot weather I am only getting 78 kms showing after recharge (48.5mls) Here in Autumn, Winter and Spring we have plus temperatures which can usually go well into double figures and my recharge normally shows up as much as 85 kms (53mls). Also the range has dropped well off to the excessive use of a/c 

As I understand, the optimal temperature range for EV charging is between 20 and 30 degrees C.  Outside that range, Battery capacity will be reduced (slightly) and charge times extended. So, charging overnight at 30 degrees will be much better than charging during the day at 40 degrees.

The displayed range will be based on recent performance - the way you have been driving and the efficiency achieved. The optimal temperature range for EV charging is between 20 and 25 degrees C. One would expect to see better range figures in the ambient temperatures of spring and autumn, and less good range figures in winter (heating, lights and wipers) and summer (air-conditioning).

[Torrox]

Charged overnight and myToyota app shows 58 miles ev.

 

[GBgraham]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

As I understand, the optimal temperature range for EV charging is between 20 and 30 degrees C.  Outside that range, battery capacity will be reduced (slightly) and charge times extended. So, charging overnight at 30 degrees will be much better than charging during the day at 40 degrees.

The displayed range will be based on recent performance - the way you have been driving and the efficiency achieved. The optimal temperature range for EV charging is between 20 and 25 degrees C. One would expect to see better range figures in the ambient temperatures of spring and autumn, and less good range figures in winter (heating, lights and wipers) and summer (air-conditioning).

Apart from your more exact figures all is as I suspected except for this statement "displayed range will be based on recent performance - the way you have been driving and the efficiency achieved" Which is this based on, the cars range display or My Toyota as displayed below? As I look on past performances on My Toyota nothing seems to have changed, only the temperature so I don't quite get the analogy🤔 

[philip42h]

6 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

Apart from your more exact figures all is as I suspected except for this statement "displayed range will be based on recent performance - the way you have been driving and the efficiency achieved" Which is this based on, the cars range display or My Toyota as displayed below? As I look on past performances on My Toyota nothing seems to have changed, only the temperature so I don't quite get the analogy🤔 

I don't have a PHEV and can't vouch for anything on the App, but I hope both the car and the App would reflect the same information with estimates based on recent performance.

In the example you show we can see that you have 43% of a tank of fuel with an estimated fuel range of 197 miles. This would be equivalent to a range of 458 miles on a full tank. That is broadly in line with what I'd expect to see on my hybrid - if I'd been driving carefully and efficiently over the last few hundred miles I'd hope to see over 500 miles of range when I filled the tank; if I'd been doing lots of short journeys, high speed motorway journeys or just generally having fun it might be down around the 450 miles mark. And the estimated range to empty will be the car's best guess based on recent driving efficiency and the amount of fuel left in the tank.

Similarly, you show an estimated range of 57.7 miles from 100% Battery charge - this is based on the conditions that you have been driving in recently - ambient temperature, driving style and journey type. It would be interesting to note how the estimated range varies as you discharge the Battery towards zero ...

I'm not sure how the App calculates EV range with A/C but I rather suspect that it simply deducts 15%.

[Torrox]

Yes I agree that the MPG and ev range reflect the recent driving period taking into account of temperature and style of driving etc. The ev range is quite accurate as I have been checking the driving distances and the ev range remains after.

[GBgraham]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

I don't have a PHEV and can't vouch for anything on the App, but I hope both the car and the App would reflect the same information with estimates based on recent performance.

In the example you show we can see that you have 43% of a tank of fuel with an estimated fuel range of 197 miles. This would be equivalent to a range of 458 miles on a full tank. That is broadly in line with what I'd expect to see on my hybrid - if I'd been driving carefully and efficiently over the last few hundred miles I'd hope to see over 500 miles of range when I filled the tank; if I'd been doing lots of short journeys, high speed motorway journeys or just generally having fun it might be down around the 450 miles mark. And the estimated range to empty will be the car's best guess based on recent driving efficiency and the amount of fuel left in the tank.

Similarly, you show an estimated range of 57.7 miles from 100% battery charge - this is based on the conditions that you have been driving in recently - ambient temperature, driving style and journey type. It would be interesting to note how the estimated range varies as you discharge the battery towards zero ...

I'm not sure how the App calculates EV range with A/C but I rather suspect that it simply deducts 15%.

These are probably fair assumptions but I find it difficult to equate to my normal driving practices which comprise of almost 100% of EV travelling.

What will have messed up my average range will have been a trip to England and touring a fair part of central Greece all on engine in EV/Eco mode except Sport mode for major or long descents.