Speed limit warning (RSA/ISA)

[Johnold]

But Car Speedos are never accurate

I tend to drive using a GPS speedo and when I drive at 70 using the GPS the car indicates 76

There is a similar error at 30 mph

And yes I have verified the accuracy of the GPS speedo 

So to me the Bongs would just be an annoyance

I am due to collect a new Yaris Excel in the next few days so I am interested to find out how has that been set up

 

[PortlandBill]

27 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

The actual legislation has three options that a manufacturer can choose from:

• Audio/visual warning.
• Haptic feedback (accelerator pressing back against foot, pedal buzzing etc.)
• Speed control.

 

My Subaru has audio visual warnings, and speed control (I have to intentionally switch that on). It's useful when driving in areas I'm not familiar with. It also has the facility to allow for speedo error e.g. I can set it to limit my speed to an indicated 32mph in a 30mph area. It's not good at determining the speed limit when it sees a "national speed limit applies" sign.

My wife's week old Yaris Cross constantly sees speed limit signs where none exist. Often, when driving on a 40mph dual carriage way, it'll show a speed limit of 40, go up to 50, then back to 40. It'll also allow you to set a speedo error correction on the HUD display, but it still bongs at the indicated limit. 

[anchorman]

37 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

The actual legislation has three options that a manufacturer can choose from:

• Audio/visual warning.
• Haptic feedback (accelerator pressing back against foot, pedal buzzing etc.)
• Speed control.

At present it's down to manufacturers to decide which of those they implement. They are all, however, required to have the system active when the car starts.

If well implemented I'd have no problem with it because I almost never exceed the speed limit. It's a matter of pride and skill to me. Unfortunately the system Toyota have implemented suffers from false alarms and/or failing to even see the sign.

But as I've also posted before as motorists it is collectively our fault. As someone who does obey speed limits I'm only too aware how few other drivers do. Exceeding the limit is endemic. As a group of people we have proven ourselves incapable of following the rules and therefore it's our fault that the law makers have decided to pass control over to machines.

We brought this on ourselves.

And there ends the sermon.   I agree that driving as a whole is a free for all but there are no longer any consequences to doing it.  I can drive into Manchester every day and never see a police car and people know it.  They are writing silly names on number plates and illegally tinting windows even to the front which hides their identity.  Huge numbers are untaxed, unMOTd and uninsured and I dread to think what their tyres etc are like.  So this thing about staying under the speed limit, well I do break the limit on a regular basis but not by a malicious amount.  These warnings come at the limit, not one mph above and if left unmuted, it’s going all the time.  Having said that, it doesn’t justify the fuss that people make over it, it’s nothing, just a background noise but we love some drama.   You can’t hear it at all with music playing at a very modest level.  You can disable mine with 3 moves - 2 to get to the choices and one to disable it and my mrs is a dab hand at doing it for me now.  On anything other than short trips, I leave it and I’m quite happy to have the unobtrusive warning.  I can tell you that it goes off for 20s that don’t exist and for countdown markers to a limit but it’s no big deal and certainly doesn’t justify the mass hysteria that the repeated posts on the subject suggest.  Where these 20,000 extra coppers are is a mystery because I’m not convinced there’s 20 in Manchester so people will make up their own rules and some of them blatantly.  

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

I’m not convinced there’s 20 in Manchester

Video evidence suggests half of them are at the airport 😱 🙂

[coreye9090]

1 hour ago, anchorman said:

And there ends the sermon.   I agree that driving as a whole is a free for all but there are no longer any consequences to doing it.  I can drive into Manchester every day and never see a police car and people know it.  They are writing silly names on number plates and illegally tinting windows even to the front which hides their identity.  Huge numbers are untaxed, unMOTd and uninsured and I dread to think what their tyres etc are like.  So this thing about staying under the speed limit, well I do break the limit on a regular basis but not by a malicious amount.  These warnings come at the limit, not one mph above and if left unmuted, it’s going all the time.  Having said that, it doesn’t justify the fuss that people make over it, it’s nothing, just a background noise but we love some drama.   You can’t hear it at all with music playing at a very modest level.  You can disable mine with 3 moves - 2 to get to the choices and one to disable it and my mrs is a dab hand at doing it for me now.  On anything other than short trips, I leave it and I’m quite happy to have the unobtrusive warning.  I can tell you that it goes off for 20s that don’t exist and for countdown markers to a limit but it’s no big deal and certainly doesn’t justify the mass hysteria that the repeated posts on the subject suggest.  Where these 20,000 extra coppers are is a mystery because I’m not convinced there’s 20 in Manchester so people will make up their own rules and some of them blatantly.  

I know right? Before I was having a test drive I've read the forums quite a lot, and tbh it really put me off purchasing a Yaris just because of this overblown, exaggerated "issue" about the speed limit beeps. After the test drive it was clear that I am definitely going to buy this car and I'm not disappointed a single bit! Best car I've had so far!

[PortlandBill]

Not exactly mass hysteria, but you'd think a company like Toyota would implement a simple system a little better than they have. 

[MC1216]

31 minutes ago, PortlandBill said:

Not exactly mass hysteria, but you'd think a company like Toyota would implement a simple system a little better than they have. 

Yes they could learn a lot from Mazda...picture attached...you just press the top right button and only visible warnings are given,no audible...or Ford or BMW and many others that you just switch it off on a button on the steering wheel.

I am sure that Carista or OBD11 will allow you to default it to off in a few months so for those it does annoy and i would be one there will be a solution soon or if it really bothers you stick with a 2023 or earlier Toyota or buy another brand.

 

[jthspace]

3 hours ago, MC1216 said:

I am sure that Carista or OBD11 will allow you to default it to off in a few months so for those it does annoy and i would be one there will be a solution soon or if it really bothers you stick with a 2023 or earlier Toyota or buy another brand.

I've already been in touch with Carista and they were going to have a look at what's involved. Potential "nice little earner" for them. 😆

[Cyker]

I don't think all the blame is down to 'us' - Lack of enforcement and the issuing of licenses to people who are unfit to drive (Does anyone remember Maureen from Driving School? Failed the test how many times? And they *still* gave her a license when she scraped by taking the *automatic* test!!! That's how low the bar can be!)

As I keep saying, the level of driving standards has been in steady decline and all they're doing is loading more electronic crutches into vehicles, which are just making the drivers who own them worse, and which the people they're targeting will probably never own anyway!

This is all just passing the buck, plus most councils are having their finances propped up by fines so there isn't much incentive to make people better drivers because bad drivers = more fines.

Oh they'll frame it as something else - Environment, safety, think of the children, but it's all down to revenue generation primarily.

[AndrueC]

I'd be interested to know how often it bonged for me - in practice around where I live I suspect almost never. However when I visit my brother I travel along the A75 in Scotland and as I've posted before several stretches of that have 40 signs with 'HGV' underneath as the limit only applies to them.

My current car detects the sign and the limit shown on the dash goes red. So the question is whether more recent Toyotas can read the 'HGV' and will not react to the sign. Otherwise that could be fifty miles worth of bongs.

Although there's also the Concord Roundabout at Banbury where it reads the 30 for a side road and silently berates me for continuing to drive Henef Way at 50..

But as to speeding - it is a pet hate of mine. It's been made more annoying by my frequent visits to Oxfordshire where several local councils have opted for 20mph limits. Now I'll say right off that I don't agree with those - driving through Bloxham is torture. But it's the law. And if you come up behind me you're damn well also going to 20.

And as for my fellow users of the A422 - tough titty there as well. 50mph is the speed we're going..but we'll be doing it through the bendy bits as well because I know how to drive 😁

[liquidv]

50 minutes ago, jthspace said:

I've already been in touch with Carista and they were going to have a look at what's involved. Potential "nice little earner" for them. 😆

I'd happily buy from Carista if they ever do create a fix for this, it'll allow me to buy the refresh model without the headache

[PortlandBill]

When I scanned the manual, I'm sure I saw a bit which suggested that it not only reads speed limit signs but also "knows" what speed limit applies for the road you're on, from its map. It would explain why I'm getting some instances of it reading side road speed limits and then correcting itself without going by another speed limit sign. 

We have some roads in my area that have speed limits that apply to "tracked vehicles" only (there's a tank driving and firing base nearby). Will be interesting to see what happens there. 

[Mojo1010]

8 hours ago, Johnold said:

But Car Speedos are never accurate

I tend to drive using a GPS speedo and when I drive at 70 using the GPS the car indicates 76

There is a similar error at 30 mph

And yes I have verified the accuracy of the GPS speedo 

So to me the Bongs would just be an annoyance

I am due to collect a new Yaris Excel in the next few days so I am interested to find out how has that been set up

 

To be out by a big margin is probably due to the previous owner changing the wheels/tyres to not within spec. On the Yaris hatch it's only 72, when 70 on GPS. 

[Cyker]

Yeah, mine is consistently exactly 2mph under what GPS reckons I'm at.

That seems to be industry standard error margin, like a baker's dozen, as every car I've been in has been similar (Except maybe for friends' who put on bigger aftermarket alloys and got their wheel diameter calculations wrong ) 

[anchorman]

5 hours ago, PortlandBill said:

Not exactly mass hysteria, but you'd think a company like Toyota would implement a simple system a little better than they have. 

They don’t have a choice, the law says the car MUST have speed warnings and frankly, they couldn’t be any more subdued.  What would you like to see instead?

[Cyker]

I must admit I'd have preferred if the system was more accurate and more intelligent - At the moment it wouldn't be considered release-ready by most software houses, such is the high number of false readings.

I don't know if it's better on the newer cars, as they have GPS support, but because mine doesn't come with GPS it relies on the camera alone and it gets it wrong nearly as much as it gets it right, and I'm not expecting it to get better as there is no economically way of getting a sufficiently powerful processing system into a car to figure out what signs to ignore and what ones to trust, nevermind partially obscured or otherwise damaged signs!

There are some things us humans will always be better at than computers, and this sort of thing is one of them.

But this is all the fault of whatever well-meaning idiot mandated it in the first place without doing a proper feasibility study.

 

[ColinB]

My Premiere YC has the bongs and I've quickly learnt to ignore them if I creep 1 or 2 mph over the limit, as others have said what is annoying is the misreading of speed limits. Until this is sorted there is no way that I'd drive a car where the car slows down to a false limit on its own. 

[anchorman]

34 minutes ago, PortlandBill said:

When I scanned the manual, I'm sure I saw a bit which suggested that it not only reads speed limit signs but also "knows" what speed limit applies for the road you're on, from its map. It would explain why I'm getting some instances of it reading side road speed limits and then correcting itself without going by another speed limit sign. 

We have some roads in my area that have speed limits that apply to "tracked vehicles" only (there's a tank driving and firing base nearby). Will be interesting to see what happens there. 

It does make mistakes for sure.  Many times mine has warned me about a 20 in a 30.  What do find surprisingly good is the predictive proactive driving assist.  It is amazingly good in fact it’s a revelation.  The new radar cruise is similarly amazing. We met traffic on the motorway and is slowed to a stop perfectly several times.  When the traffic cleared, it tells you traffic moving and press resume to start at which point it continues smoothly and at no point did it make me uneasy.  It was actually quite a pleasant experience.  

[anchorman]

6 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I must admit I'd have preferred if the system was more accurate and more intelligent - At the moment it wouldn't be considered release-ready by most software houses, such is the high number of false readings.

I don't know if it's better on the newer cars, as they have GPS support, but because mine doesn't come with GPS it relies on the camera alone and it gets it wrong nearly as much as it gets it right, and I'm not expecting it to get better as there is no economically way of getting a sufficiently powerful processing system into a car to figure out what signs to ignore and what ones to trust, nevermind partially obscured or otherwise damaged signs!

There are some things us humans will always be better at than computers, and this sort of thing is one of them.

But this is all the fault of whatever well-meaning idiot mandated it in the first place without doing a proper feasibility study.

 

Have you tried it or listening to rumours?

[Cyker]

Just now, anchorman said:

Have you tried it or listening to rumours?

Tsk you're not reading my posts are you  

It's literally in my car - I have a Mk4 Yaris remember!?  

I think it's the first generation of Yaris to have this system, and it shows...!

 

[PortlandBill]

28 minutes ago, anchorman said:

They don’t have a choice, the law says the car MUST have speed warnings and frankly, they couldn’t be any more subdued.  What would you like to see instead?

I'd like them to accurately read speed signs, and apply them automatically ( my choice) just like my other car does. 

[anchorman]

4 minutes ago, ColinB said:

My Premiere YC has the bongs and I've quickly learnt to ignore them if I creep 1 or 2 mph over the limit, as others have said what is annoying is the misreading of speed limits. Until this is sorted there is no way that I'd drive a car where the car slows down to a false limit on its own. 

Not driven one with so called speed limiter yet so I’ll reserve judgement on that.  It’s alright having a car that obeys speed limits but it needs all other vehicles to be fitted because the moment somebody drives at 29mph, they’ll get a red faced Scania driver and umpteen cars up their jacksie.   

[anchorman]

11 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Tsk you're not reading my posts are you  

It's literally in my car - I have a Mk4 Yaris remember!?  

I think it's the first generation of Yaris to have this system, and it shows...!

 

I had a mk4 but it didn’t have the latest traffic sign recognition and they’ve gone a step further now with speed limiting.  

[AndrueC]

25 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I don't know if it's better on the newer cars, as they have GPS support, but because mine doesn't come with GPS it relies on the camera alone and it gets it wrong nearly as much as it gets it right

My Excel Corolla has GPS and it still gets it wrong. It gets it wrong along the short section of the A422 after its junction with the A43 at Brackley - because I haven't updated the maps since the free period ended. Sometimes it 'sees' the NSL repeater signs most times not.

And it gets Hennef Way wrong despite the GPS. But cars with such systems in the UK must use GPS because signs are often not enough.

For instance when turning off the A43 (dual carriageway) at Brackley onto the A422 (single carriageway) there are no speed limit signs. That's because both roads are NSL at that point and as of many years ago the Highways Agency no longer requires speed limit signs at junctions in such cases. You don't get the first repeater until a couple of hundred yards along the A422.

The only way a car can get the limit right is to know that you are now driving on a single carriageway and therefore the limit has reduced to 60mph. Well - I suppose the car could be programmed to recognise the difference between a single and dual carriageway but that seems unlikely.

[anchorman]

4 minutes ago, PortlandBill said:

I'd like them to accurately read speed signs, and apply them automatically ( my choice) just like my other car does. 

I’m sure you would but that’s not the law.  It’s not your choice any more.