Help/Advice resolving dealer/warranty issue

[trashman1965]

In the interest of balance/fairness:

Toyota just called to say no update, dialog ongoing. That is to the original case, not the complaint I raised this morning. 

No further update from the dealer. 

[fourbanks]

 As far i can see, your faults are covered under warranty.  The port injectors are covered under warranty. 

 

Fuel Pump; Electric Fuel Pump; Air Flow Meter; Electronic Fuel Injection System; Electronic Control Unit (ECU); Throttle Body; Fuel Injectors; Fuel Pressure Regulator; Tank Sender Unit; Fuel Sensors; Fuel Tank; Fuel Gauge.

[TonyHSD]

Yes, 

I don’t see why Toyota are trying to deny warranty work? 
No matter if the fuel quality is bad, or anything else, as long as the owner didn’t put diesel in the injectors warranty work should be easily accepted and taken care off without question. 
It seems like anything else these days in uk Toyota are big only on promises, but when they need to fulfil what they say, they actually are trying to avoid paying for warranty repairs. Not long ago there was a member with Auris who had hybrid Battery failure., all within the warranty period and he has all necessary checks and serviced and still he was going through hell to claim on warranty replacement. Is that a strategy to put off claims , or something else in mind I don’t know. Just makes me think is it worth keeping up dealers services at high cost and warranty hassle. 

[trashman1965]

This is the very odd thing...toyota still say dialog is continuing yet the dealer says they closed the case and are denying the claim. This after saying it was approved, then "technical changed their minds". Doesn't add up.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

15 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I don’t see why Toyota are trying to deny warranty work? 

From what has been posted there seems to be mixed communications - Toyota GB are saying they're awaiting info from the dealer, and the dealer are saying Toyota GB have declined the warranty claim.

Reminds me of the previous topic where the dealer carried out incorrect remedial work, Toyota refused the warranty claim because of this, and the dealer had to carry out the correct repair at their cost. So has this dealer done the same??

[trashman1965]

29 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

From what has been posted there seems to be mixed communications - Toyota GB are saying they're awaiting info from the dealer, and the dealer are saying Toyota GB have declined the warranty claim.

Reminds me of the previous topic where the dealer carried out incorrect remedial work, Toyota refused the warranty claim because of this, and the dealer had to carry out the correct repair at their cost. So has this dealer done the same??

Definitely mixed comms!

 

I've been reluctant to speculate as I don't have all the facts, but hard not to think they delayed, said to me it was approved then found it wasn't yet approved and now trying to recover the situation. The fact toyota said the asked for info in 17th and not forthcoming until the 23rd and in the meantime dealer told me at least twice that they were "still waiting on technical" followed by "approved, parts ordered" then "technical changed their minds" just seems odd.

It also seems odd that the app showed it was driven across the forecourt on Thursday, yet today I'm told they need time to put it back together. Maybe they fitted parts before approval now trying to get me to pay.

Again, speculation but nothing adds up.

[fourbanks]

You need to write in person to the dealer and then go from here 

What to do if your car warranty company won’t pay for repairs - Which?

[trashman1965]

1 minute ago, fourbanks said:

You need to write in person to the dealer and then go from here 

What to do if your car warranty company won’t pay for repairs - Which?

So I emailed the dealer Principal today and also sent same message to Toyota via their complaints page. Does that count? Or has it actually got to be paper complaint?

[fourbanks]

10 hours ago, trashman1965 said:

So I emailed the dealer Principal today and also sent same message to Toyota via their complaints page. Does that count? Or has it actually got to be paper complaint?

It would be wise to put everything in writing because it appears that this will go to court. Other franchise Toyota dealers should also be consulted for help, since you might need to provide them instructions to complete the task. You can get phone advice on the appropriate course of action from your local solicitor.


In order for the court to have some evidence if you need to take the auto dealer to small claims court later on, they will need to provide a written explanation as to why they are not covering certain items under warranty.

At some time, this Toyota dealer will come under scrutiny, thus they will need to take legal advice as to why they will not honour parts covered under warranty 

[trashman1965]

OK, another update. 

Dealer called saying Toyota customer relations backing technical in that it's contamination, only course is for me to replace injectors. 

Phoned Toyota straight after "that's not what we said". 🙄

Apparently they suggested getting a local company to try an ultrasonic clean. That's not acceptable to me anyway! 

Again raised concerns regarding miscommunication and being stuck in the middle. Also again asked if they're saying Shell and BP fuels are contaminated or unsuitable as they are implying that with no testing, analysis or engineer report. And why not warranty when other owners have had same repaired under warranty. 

Awaiting call back from Toyota - I've said they need to own this and contact me as every time dealer contacts me it's a different story. 

Ask to anyone that's had this and DM me if you prefer, but I'd like to get a list of owners and the dealer that resolved the issue. 

So for clarity, 2.0l UK corolla with misfire/juddering and no warning lights, diagnosis and repair done (injector cylinder numbers if known) and approximate date and if done under warranty. 

Hopefully they will see sense and we can have relevant info in one place if anyone else experiences the issue. 

Mods - if the ask above needs to be a separate post or needs adjustment to be within forum guidelines please let me know. 

[ThomasL]

It's not happened to mine, yet, but thank you and good on you for sticking to your guns, we are all rooting for you!

 

[trashman1965]

So another update. Had an email from the dealer principal saying courtesy contact and they were talking to Toyota. 

Then a call from Toyota saying they are covering the costs. It won't be until 6th of August now but at least things are moving. I did say "that's another week, that'll be 3 weeks+ it's not been driven so I hope I am not going to have a Battery issue.". They didn't flinch and just said they would make sure they checked it. 

Dealer principal also followed up confirming the repair and that they would check the Battery. No mention of not being able to keep the loan car which Tbf, they've never insisted it's return. 

So seems we're all finally on the same page which is a relief. 

I'll update this thread once I get the car back. 

I still have a replacement on order. Not sure if I will downgrade for peace of mind but it's really not what I want to do and until this, I've really enjoyed the car (and the 2 auris before and OH's 3 Yaris) so may just put this all down to bad luck/perfect storm and move on. I have been looking at other cars but honestly nothing ticks the boxes (OK maybe lexus but definitely not the price box!) except the Civic but that's way more expensive and not a fan of the looks interior or exterior. 

My point here is these are great cars and not had any other problems (apart from sales but that's for another thread when I finally get it sorted) other than this and for anyone reading in the future, stick to the facts, keep chasing and eventually they see sense. It could be less painful for sure so probably still worth a post with those who have had the injector issues resolved so others can refer to it. 

Hopefully I am not tempting fate with this latest update but again on fairness we got there (or getting there) so seems right to keep it updated. 

Thanks for everyone who has contributed and made suggestions etc. That has been an incentive to keep going for sure. 

[taxidriver50005]

Hope it all gets resolved quickly, on another note I've managed to get hold of a friend's set of injectors for his 2019 lexus es300h.. Going to have a go at cleaning injectors and try to see what exactly is failing.. Wish me luck. 

[SV1991]

Can I check if a misfire is easy to detect? I have a 69 plate 2.0 Corolla, and I'm wondering if the issue is straightforward to identify or if I should be cautious of any unusual sounds coming from the engine. The only time I notice the engine being particularly loud is when the car is stationary, running at around 1500 RPM to charge the Battery. Thank you.

[trashman1965]

It's pretty obvious when it had an issue. It's light load on the engine and in a certain injection phase. It seems to be port injection but it's not exactly the same at all times/engine/road speeds and loads. 

At around 2,000 rpm and light load, think motorway/dual carriageway at about 70mph you can feel shaking

Lower speeds juddering/hesitation under acceleration,again around 2,000 rpm. 

Juddering when engine running approaching traffic lights when charging HV Battery. 

Shaking and obvious miss fire if engine off in park and you press accelerator. 

Starting from cold, engine smooth initially then after 5 or so seconds shaking. 

With engine just started and moving into Park you may also hear knocking which I think is actually the damper clutch but could be preigniton. 

In most instances, little more throttle evens it out

 

 

[trashman1965]

And now thinking about it and having seen other threads, mpg drops - mine was around 45 recently even with nicer weather. Really struggled to get above that

 

[Red_Corolla]

I don't think the port injectors are used under heavy load, so it would make sense if the symptoms disappear with the foot down.

The rest of the time, it's using both sets together (port first, direct second) to try and create the most efficient fuel vapour. There's also a pleasant side-benefit of keeping the ports clean instead of allowing them to be fouled by the EGR system.

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/toyota-d-4s-port-fuel-or-direct-fuel-injection-why-not-both/

[TonyHSD]

The symptoms disappear with foot down because when doing so you let more air in the intake and this optimises the fuel mixture ratio.
Same thing happens on 1.8 port injection only engines when engine knocking happens., mostly on cold starts and after some days of no use. 

I believe that the fuel is the main reason for all that problems. 
No petrol is the same between two different fill ups and no matter if we buy from the same garage, same pump, or same brand, same type. There are always some small variables in the content of additives and stabilisers. 
Petrol additives are the best help here imo and to avoid cheaper supermarket fuels., these are always the worst one. They are cheap for a reason , base fuels are the same but the cheaper ones lack some vital additives that prevent from knocking, misfire, and create more acidic environment before and after burning. This is my personal opinion and conclusion monitoring the same car engine behaviour and using around 100 litres of fuel per week bought from different brands, garages.  

[ThomasL]

What I don't get is why this new engine is the only one that has port injector leaks due to the fuel.

There are bazillions of 1.8L engines running on the same fuel for hundreds of thousands of miles with no port injector leaks (they crud up sometimes but don't leak)

[taxidriver50005]

39 minutes ago, ThomasL said:

What I don't get is why this new engine is the only one that has port injector leaks due to the fuel.

There are bazillions of 1.8L engines running on the same fuel for hundreds of thousands of miles with no port injector leaks (they crud up sometimes but don't leak)

Who's confirmed there leaking 

[TonyHSD]

In 1.8 for example these injectors works all the time and events clear off themselves, where in 2.0 these work from time to time and this might be a vital difference. And there are tons of cars with 1.8 engines that has issues too, but owners never noticed. 

[trashman1965]

10 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

Who's confirmed there leaking 

For mine, the diagnosis was port injectors blocked. There was a suggestion at one point of ultrasonic cleaning. So my armchair theory is running weak in affected cylinder(s) when port injectors only (low revs/load) which improves as load increased (accelerating harder) as that adds in/changes to direct injection. 

[taxidriver50005]

The only time port injectors are not firing is full bore or high rpm 3000 plus. In every other case they are assisting if not being the only sorce of fuel. 

Maybe they are not assisting enough to keep themselves clean, maybe it's EGR related, from my understanding EGR is 90 % open at tick over up to about 2600rpm when it starts to close. 

If you've driven 2.0 you will realise that you only occasionally go over these revs and only for a few seconds.. Even fast motorway work is under 2000rpm.

I'm seriously looking into EGR blanking and could this be done safely. 

[trashman1965]

13 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

The only time port injectors are not firing is full bore or high rpm 3000 plus. In every other case they are assisting if not being the only sorce of fuel. 

Yup and that's borne out in the behaviour when driving. Full throttle/higher revs, engine is happy.

Again, armchair theory, but EGR is probably in the mix - if it's not fed evenly to all cylinders and just dumped into the intake then possibly, depending on load/air flow, its reaching one or more cylinders more or less than the others. As I say, my armchair theories - I don't know if cylinder/injector 3 is nearer or further away from where EGR enters the intake or the airflow in certain conditions means it just gets more.

But from the various threads and discussions it fits but that could mean nothing.

13 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

If you've driven 2.0 you will realise that you only occasionally go over these revs and only for a few seconds.. Even fast motorway work is under 2000rpm.

Agreed - the 2l has plenty in reserve and you'd be way over the speed limit with much more. I wouldn't say I am a person who drives at full bore but occasionally "spirited" and certainly not a hyper miler.

[ThomasL]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:37 AM, taxidriver50005 said:

Who's confirmed there leaking 

I saw a couple threads on the US "toyotanation" website that said port injector leaking and I thought I saw one here too the other day but maybe not