2017 Yaris a/c problem

[Yaris_Cross]

48 minutes ago, superl99 said:

I didn't need the a/c anymore for that year (

There is no such thing as "didn't need the a/c anymore for that year" and this is probably why you have had problems not running the a/c all year round is not good i use mine in the cooler months to demist and when its not needed i always run it at least a few minutes every time i drive to keep everything running and lubed, in all the years i have ran cars with a/c i have never had a problem.

[FROSTYBALLS]

A/c is useful to use in winter in conjunction with heating for demisting, as it dehumidifies the air being directed towards the internal glass. Used in this way it provides faster and more effective demisting. 

[superl99]

I mean I didn't need it to be cold

[Yaris_Cross]

11 minutes ago, superl99 said:

I mean I didn't need it to be cold

It doesn't matter what temperature you run the a/c at it still does the same job not running it is a killer.

[Mooly]

2 hours ago, superl99 said:

I want whatever solution will not cause me to pay £1800 and will fix my a/c

Why not approach an independent vehicle air con specialist and ask their advice. It helps in situations like this to write all the history down clearly and concisely because very often in fault finding "the evidence was there all along" when you look back. It also makes it easier for someone to assimilate.

I would also have thought it possible to simply make up a new coupling or new small section of pipe rather than replacing the whole thing. The costs you mention seem absolutely out of all proportion to me. 

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, superl99 said:

was told a/cs are just like that.

Tosh. That's an excuse used when people aren't able or can't be bothered to get to grips with a refrigerant system that's playing up. It's just physics really. I bet your refrigerator isn't "just like that".

When operating properly a/c systems are reliable and predictable.

[Cyker]

I fell into the same trap with my Mk2 - Used it in summer, found it wasn't cold, regassed it, used it, then didn't use it much in winter (In my Mk1, it had a big easy-to-press button and I was using it to slow the car down all the time  , but in the Mk2 the button was too small to safely hit, and as it wasn't a climate control system, if it was on it was on ALL the time, which gave a massive mpg hit  ), so didn't realize all the gas was just leaking out until next summer.

Everyone said there wasn't a leak, despite being confronted with the fact that I was regassing it every year, at which point you get people saying garbage like "Well some AC systems need to be regassed every year it's normal" <--- This is total  

The problem is, everyone uses those machines, and they are rubbish at leak finding as all they do is a vacuum test, and half the time the leak is either too small or only happens when the system is under pressure, so it doesn't show up in the vacuum test.

Actual AC specialists can do nitrogen pressure tests of the system to find leaks, as well as using electronic 'chemical sniffers', but finding such people is tricky. I didn't do this, but a friend suggested a possible last resort of going to an industrial HVAC specialist - They won't be able to fix it, as they only work on fixed AC systems for e.g. offices and such, but they tend to be far better equipped and experienced than garage mechanics for that sort of work and should at least be able to identify where the leak is if nothing else, if you can't find an AC specialist for cars.

 

I have a sneaky suspicion, esp. if you also have the 1.33L engine, that your car has the same variable displacement AC compressor that my Mk2 has, and that's the thing that is actually faulty, but getting a Toyota dealer to verify that is the cause and putting in for a warranty replacement will be an up-hill struggle...

 

[TonyHSD]

Ac systems in cars no need to be run just to keep them alive. 
In this case it seems to me like a manufacturer defect or poor workmanship most likely the cause of gas leak and poor performance. The problem is that the owner did not receive proper service, explanation and opinion from whoever were given her that advice, perhaps if the dealer wanted to avoid any warranty work. If you don’t like ac or think there is no need to use it, then you can keep it off as long as you want and whenever you feel a need you can turn it on and it should work immediately and up to the standard, even if you only use it once every 6 months or one year. I won’t blame the car owner. The service advisor, the mechanics, the dealers who didn’t investigate properly and explained nonsense that this is normal to regas every year. 

[superl99]

Thanks TonyHSD, I feel like if running the aircon for some kind of minimum is something that is required for it to stay functional, this should be made a lot clearer, especially at time of service if the garage thinks this is causing an issue.

18 hours ago, Yaris_Cross said:

It doesn't matter what temperature you run the a/c at it still does the same job not running it is a killer.

I meant that I didn't need the a/c to be cold when running it for demisting in winter, so I wouldn't have noticed that it wasn't blowing cold nor been bothered by it not running cold.

[superl99]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

I have a sneaky suspicion, esp. if you also have the 1.33L engine, that your car has the same variable displacement AC compressor that my Mk2 has, and that's the thing that is actually faulty, but getting a Toyota dealer to verify that is the cause and putting in for a warranty replacement will be an up-hill struggle...

It's the 1.5L, I don't know if that has the same thing? I did speak to 'master technician' yesterday and told him what the Halfords guy said, but he said he's never seen any kind of blockage in these systems so he's sure it's not that. I'm calling him later and we're going to go through my entire service history from when the problem was first noted to see exactly what's been done. He also claims the technician who found the stripping didn't cause it, it just happened, bad luck, no way to predict which cars will have it happen to them.

[Yaris_Cross]

19 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Ac systems in cars no need to be run just to keep them alive. 

This subject comes up often in car forums and the use it dont use it camps never agree i prefer to use it regularly the reason being if it does have problems due to lack of use its an expensive fix.  

What else do I need to consider about my car’s air-con, and how do I maintain it?

As well as getting the system re-gassed, the best way to keep your air-con in top form is to use it all year round.

Change the cabin filter regularly, and consider an anti-bacterial clean if you notice musty smells coming from the vents.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/car-maintenance/air-con-regassing/

 

Benefits of using air-con throughout the year

27th February 2023

There are some significant benefits to using your air-con regularly over the course of the year, as consistent use reduces the risk of the system seizing up and stops circulation from deteriorating.

Refrigerant and oil are required to make the A/C in your car work, so it’s a good idea to switch it on regularly to keep the liquid flowing and the components of the system lubricated.

During the winter, switching on the A/C to generate warm air is a good way to clear misty windows, since the air coming out of the vents is dry and acts as a dehumidifier.

https://www.fuelcardservices.com/should-i-use-ac-or-open-my-windows/#:~:text=Refrigerant and oil are required,components of the system lubricated.

 

[Mooly]

The main reason for the advice to run it regularly is this...

A domestic fridge or freezer is referred to as 'hermetically sealed' and that means that everything is just that, sealed. The compressor and all the pipework and the evaporator and the condenser is one continuous circuit where all joints are brazed/welded/soldered. There are no joints anywhere that leakage can occur. Even the compressor is totally sealed. This is why domestic refrigeration works for decades without issues. 

In a vehicle there are couplings, joints, flexible hoses and so on plus the 'big one' which is the front seal on the compressor where the drive shaft emerges. That has to be sealed as well and still seal when the shaft is spinning anywhere from idle speeds right up to the rev limiter. Those seals (O rings for the joints plus the compressor seal) need the oil in the refrigerant to circulate now and again to keep them soft, supple and well sealed.

That is the reason for the advice to use it regularly.

 

[Yaris_Cross]

2 hours ago, Mooly said:

In a vehicle there are couplings, joints, flexible hoses and so on plus the 'big one' which is the front seal on the compressor where the drive shaft emerges. That has to be sealed as well and still seal when the shaft is spinning anywhere from idle speeds right up to the rev limiter. Those seals (O rings for the joints plus the compressor seal) need the oil in the refrigerant to circulate now and again to keep them soft, supple and well sealed.

I have read that elsewhere thanks for confirming it is a fact.

[MikeSh]

4 hours ago, Mooly said:

plus the 'big one' which is the front seal on the compressor where the drive shaft emerges.

Is that true of those on hybrids (and EVs) which are electrically driven? Those motors could be sealed inside the system like fridges, but I don't know if they are.

[TonyHSD]

No need to run ac as maintenance procedure. There are cars that never run ac for years and ac holds Gas perfectly fine and once you press on it starts straight away and blows ice cold air. I had been keeping ac off for many months off then turn on and works great, and all that not on one or two cars but on many. 

[Mooly]

7 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Is that true of those on hybrids (and EVs) which are electrically driven? Those motors could be sealed inside the system like fridges, but I don't know if they are.

I believe these are similar but minus the shaft and pulley. There is a motor built into the housing of the compressor. He says it is a three phase motor (in this video) which looks correct and means it needs to be driven from an electrically generated AC drive signal. The motor is brushless.

So as far as leaks go, it all looks similar to a regular setup but minus the front seal leakage point.

 

[MikeSh]

4 hours ago, Mooly said:

So as far as leaks go, it all looks similar to a regular setup but minus the front seal leakage point.

Hard to tell just looking at that bit of the video on a mobile. I'll try and watch more on a bigger screen later.

[Mooly]

Actually I think I'm wrong on what I said. It looks like this one can be driven both by a belt and by the internal motor... hmm... in which case there is still a front seal and the possible leakage that comes from that.

I wonder if all Hybrids are like this, and using two methods of drive. 

[Mooly]

Just looking for images and this below is apparently is a Prius compressor, 100% electric and sealed. Using two methods of drive would mean it essential that the clutch on the pulley never engaged when the motor was powered.

 

 

 

  

[Yaris_Cross]

15 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

No need to run ac as maintenance procedure. There are cars that never run ac for years and ac holds Gas perfectly fine and once you press on it starts straight away and blows ice cold air. I had been keeping ac off for many months off then turn on and works great, and all that not on one or two cars but on many. 

As i said earlier - 

 

Quote

This subject comes up often in car forums and the use it dont use it camps never agree i prefer to use it regularly the reason being if it does have problems due to lack of use its an expensive fix.  

 

[Yaris_Cross]

3 hours ago, Mooly said:

Actually I think I'm wrong on what I said. It looks like this one can be driven both by a belt and by the internal motor... hmm... in which case there is still a front seal and the possible leakage that comes from that.

I wonder if all Hybrids are like this, and using two methods of drive. 

 

Mooly posted the video below but started it 8 minutes in this is the same video  from the beginning which shows the pulley - 

 

 

 

[Mooly]

4 hours ago, Mooly said:

Actually I think I'm wrong on what I said. It looks like this one can be driven both by a belt and by the internal motor... hmm..

I did comment on that earlier. I'm not sure how common the pulley plus motor combination is tbh. 

This could be a new can of worms. If the AC fails so will the car (as in not run):

How do the compressors differ in hybrid and electric vehicles? | DENSO (denso-am.eu)

 

[Yaris_Cross]

Great link Mooly

Does this  "it’s critical the keep the refrigerant at the right level because problems can start when the level is overlooked" mean  AC re-gassing will be put on the service schedule?

 

Maintenance

The eCompressor is hermetically closed, with no shaft seal or potential risk of refrigerant leakage to the outside air, so the leak rate of refrigerant is less than that of a mechanical compressor. However, it’s critical the keep the refrigerant at the right level because problems can start when the level is overlooked.
In addition, hybrid and electrical vehicles obviously still require regular maintenance, so technicians must refer to the vehicle manufacturer’s scheduled service intervals and follow any replacement requirements.

[wildtapholer]

Strangely enough, when I bought the wife her 2015 Yaris about four years ago now I think, when it went in for a heath check as they call it, soon after getting this approved car, they said the very same two pipes had the same leak, the price they gave me was rather a shock but I told them to leave it. Took it to my local A/C specialist and told them to check it but to do that they have to remove the gas, put a dye in and re-fill, well they could not find a leak but it was re-gassed for around £45(he's a friend) I have just had it re-gassed during this heat wave, but hey if I have to have it re-gassed every two years it's still cheaper than chucking £1800 pound for something what might not change anything, other than lighten my wallet. 

[Stevie J]

Mine was working rather poorly earlier this year, I took it to Kwik Fit for a full service in May, and asked them to re-gas the a/c. They did this service and charged me for the re-gas, plus one of those a/c cleaner bombs. A few months later and the performance of the a/c is pretty much back to how it was before - pretty dire, and it stinks every time I have been using it, and come to start the car again later the same day so I think Kwik Fit may have not done what they said they did, or the system is just pants anyway. It does eventually start to cool the car off when its been running 5 - 10 minutes in re-circ mode, so it will work, just not very quickly, and re-circ must be used especially in the 26C temps we have had the last couple of days here in Stoke on Trent.

The Mk2 I had before did have a leak on the rubber O ring connector between the condenser and its pipework at the front of the car. This was after Kwik Fit tested it and said it didnt have a leak, so they gassed it up, it lasted a couple of weeks and then packed up again, and I could see the evidence of oil dripping out of the condenser connector, so that was obviously where the pressure leaked out from.

The Mk1 I had before also stopped working so I couldnt be bothered getting that fixed due to the age of the car at the time.

Seems once cars get over about 8 - 10 years old, the reliability of the a/c takes a nose dive and it would be better and cheaper by this point to open the windows.

Charging £1800 for the work the garage the o/p said he was to be charged is ludicrous and there would have been no way on this earth I would have agreed to pay that much. Firing the parts cannon is always the worst thing to do - they treat you like an open wallet as long as you let them.