Yet another 12volt battery issue - with a happy ending

[essbe]

22my Excel with no previous issues. On a day out I covered 25 miles to destination on arrival locked the car as normal. Came back 5hours later with the following symptoms, brake failure and report to dealer and of course the car would not engage. Experienced brake pedal fluctuation up and down etc. Called RAC as I was in the middle of nowhere they turned up in 40minutes. The technician was up to speed on these problems and correctly diagnosed the auxiliary Battery as faulty showing just 14.2 volts and a simple jump start got me on the way and I returned home with no issues. I used my CTEK charger for 5 hours and it showed a health Battery but a voltmeter test showed voltage dropping a tenth of an amp every 40minutes. Called my York suppling dealer having read all the damming reports on a certain suppliers batteries and expected a debate on warranty and a hefty bill. The Battery was correctly diagnosed and a report shown to me in confirmation and a new Yuasa battery supplied under warranty in less than a couple of hours excluding horrible drive into York - so smiles all round for us and hope others have similar resolutions

[dash]

Sure about 14.2V? That's a very healthy reading which you would see while a Battery is charging.

[essbe]

I meant 1.4 volt at static which was less than 5per cent capacity as confirmed later

[Primus1]

That’s promising regarding the dealer as I also use vantage York, glad you had a good result..

[essbe]

hear's a thought - assuming these failing batteries are from the same source or design and assuming the Yuasa ones are more 'robust' as demonstrated by them being fitted to newer models, is it the case that occasional charging with something like a CTEK or similar might stave off future failings. Perhaps Toyota might put forward a suggestion here. From many drivers' experiences it could be seen as an 'achilles heal' for this evolution of motoring. Can't say it puts me off though, it's the old thing about benefits outweighing etc etc.....

[dash]

New cars continue to be supplied with the Turkish Mutlu Battery. 

Toyota’s advice is to use a solar panel and/or to start the car and leave in Ready mode for up to an hour per week to ‘maintain’ the Battery

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, dash said:

New cars continue to be supplied with the Turkish Mutlu battery. 

Maybe Toyota have 'persuaded' them to do better.

[TonyHSD]

Most new Toyota cars are half Turkish anyway. 
The wheels even on those cars made in Japan or USA . 
The bumpers , the 12v batteries , possibly other parts too. 
But who cares, as long as they work fine. I don’t think the mutlu batteries been to blame for those who had issues, more likely to be the capacity and the way of use , misused.
Made in Turkey it doesn’t necessarily mean low quality. 

[hind]

So loosing 2/3 of the nameplate capacity after 6 months of use and 2.5 week parking means decent quality? And is there anyone having Yuasa Battery which caused similar issues? Seven years ago I bought 3 "scrap" batteries from my neighbour, one of them is Maxis brand (don't worry, I didn't heard about it either). So that one is probably around 10 year old. Yet it still maintains around 60-70% of it's initial capacity, after being left for a few years in the basement, discharged multiple times to 6-7V (it powers the water pump and sometimes the float doesn't disconnect it so it runs the Battery dry) and it's working fine to this day. 

[jthspace]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Made in Turkey it doesn’t necessarily mean low quality. 

Speak to some BEKO kitchen appliance owners 🤣😂

 

[Cyker]

It's all in the Quality Control!

We were talking to someone who used to work for Phillips and they were saying one time they switched factories and initially were rejecting something like 70% of the product as failing QC!  

I think even Toyota had this with the TMMF factory, as there were so many issues that allegedly a higher up from Japan came over to yell at them  

(I don't know how much difference this made, judging from the decidedly French panel alignment and gaps on my Mk4, but at least it seems solid...!   )

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, jthspace said:

Speak to some BEKO kitchen appliance owners 🤣😂

 

Haha, 

I have Beko washer dryer and I like it.  At least the panel gaps are all ok ✅ 😅
 

[essbe]

Misuse - I don't think so. 30 years in motor design and engineering makes it possible for me to make reasonable deductions about suppliers and quality issues having had many difficult investigations into such matters. Research has revealed that more investigations across multiple manufacturers are needed to confirm how appropriate this aspect of hybrid operation is, my personal view is there is a software functionality that incorporates a visual alert. but has been said by another some Battery makers are just better at making this product. the reason I chose Toyota over others is simple they get more thing right than others especially as this technology faces many complex challenges. Anywho my car is fine now and the new Battery is holding voltage at 12.8 and above consistently.

[hind]

BTW I wonder if the DC/DC behavior can be changed by the software update so it aims at pumping as much power into the Battery as possible while respecting the maximums of the current (not sure how much would that be? 5 amps charging current?) and the voltage (14.4V). 

[Primus1]

As I’ve said before, had Battery issues with my last car, a Ford puma, many had problems with their rombat batteries and changed to varta ones.

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, hind said:

BTW I wonder if the DC/DC behavior can be changed by the software update so it aims at pumping as much power into the battery as possible while respecting the maximums of the current (not sure how much would that be? 5 amps charging current?) and the voltage (14.4V). 

I think anything can be done via software on these cars but that’s need to be adjusted  by Toyota themselves and update released. If you load the hybrid Battery with charging the small 12v Battery you may get a bit lower mpg as the engine will be running more often. This usually happens on cars with low state of charge on their 12v batteries. 

[Mooly]

On 8/8/2024 at 5:19 PM, hind said:

BTW I wonder if the DC/DC behavior can be changed by the software update so it aims at pumping as much power into the battery as possible while respecting the maximums of the current (not sure how much would that be? 5 amps charging current?) and the voltage (14.4V). 

Only way to force more current in the Battery is to raise to the charging voltage. The voltage is the determining factor and 14v just doesn't cut it when the usage is 'cyclic' which is essentially what it seems to be in the Yaris. Constant discharge when parked up and then often short charge times... that is cyclic use in my book.

[essbe]

its not over - drove out 150 yards this morning and car surged then completely shut down in the middle of the main road. Did a restart got off the road now waiting for recovery. As they say in the movies - what next?

 

[hind]

3 minutes ago, essbe said:

car surged then completely shut down in the middle of the main road

99% not a Battery issue IMO

[ThomasL]

You should modify the thread title!

[TonyHSD]

Interesting, let’s see what have happened. 

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, essbe said:

Did a restart got off the road now waiting for recovery.

So restart gave enough to move to the side but not continue driving? There must be more to tell.

[essbe]

On 8/13/2024 at 10:23 AM, essbe said:

its not over - drove out 150 yards this morning and car surged then completely shut down in the middle of the main road. Did a restart got off the road now waiting for recovery. As they say in the movies - what next?

 

Easy to think this was a related issue but after exhaustive checks of fuel quality it turns out that the fuel pump had failed completely and suddenly  - whole situation resolved by Vantage - faith restored.