Surface water drains - Cleaning by Highways Maintenance

[Haliotis]

On two occasions our road has been flooded by heavy rain. The block paving in the foreground is the edge of my driveway.  The last few houses at the bottom of our road are in a dip, and rain water collects from three directions to flood as shown if the two drains (one each side of the road) are not kept free from blockage. To the left of the picture, on the opposite side of the road, are two enormous deciduous trees which are on public land.  Much of the falling leaves from these trees finish up blocking the two drains, with the results of flooding as shown.

Now, these trees are still in full bloom, and yesterday the cleaning wagon came around to clean the drains in the road and, if they follow true to form, this is the last time we will see them until well into next year.  So, come the Fall, the leaves will all collect over these two drains again.  I have made the local council aware of the problem but, predictively, they are not very interested.  Fortunately, the rain abated before the flood shown got any higher, although the bow-wave from inconsiderate drivers did wash away most of the top soil of our front garden.

I have no intention of watching a flood reaching our home, so I have been looking at investing in a surface pump. Behind our house are school playing fields, and a school, where the land is a bit lower than the site of our home.  A 25mm hose run from the flood area to the bottom of our garden would shift the water onto council-owned land.  Since the road is also council-owned, I would simply be shifting the water from one council area to another so, as far as I am concerned (and probably with affected neighbours in support) I am entitled to act accordingly.  The last metre or so of our rear garden has a sudden drop, and is at about the same level as the council-owned land behind it, so I would actually be still moving the water onto my own land.  Would others on the forum take similar action to protect their property?

 

 

[Mjolinor]

Hmm, legally questionable particularly putting it on your land and taking it off the council. Better to stick the hose over the fence I would have thought. I foresee an increased water rate surcharge for the water running off your land to theirs.

In Burnley the council have a really good way of stopping the grates from blocking, they are all about 3 inches above the level of the road so the water does not get near them until it is above 3 inches deep.

 

[Haliotis]

Take your point, John.  Actually, I could push the end of the hose just under the bottom of the fence. The wild growth along the other side of my fence line would hide the end of the hose.

The whole situation is questionable, though.  Although the water rate includes a charge for removal of surface water, the water company (Severn-Trent) are not interested in the water until it enters their sewers - as I found out when trying to get help at the time of the flooding.  So, who owns the flood water whilst it is on the surface of the highway?  It doesn’t belong to me, and I don’t have to allow it to enter onto my property.  If the flood level reached my airbricks, it would naturally start to flow through my garden and out under the bottom fence.  All I would be doing is to help the water anlong its natural path without it “trespassing” onto my property.

[FROSTYBALLS]

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/who-is-responsible-for-managing-flood-risk-england/

[Haliotis]

56 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/who-is-responsible-for-managing-flood-risk-england/

Unfortunately Mike, like all government documentation, this missive is no different and makes for heavy reading.  It is so protracted as to be unhelpful to the average, affected individuals.  My approach is one of practicality and logic.  In the case of my immediate neighbours and myself, the flooding is only due to poor maintenance of the drains, and the poor design of the road layout levels in our local position.  Annoyingly, there is a 4 feet diameter underground washbrook, which I believe is attached to our drains, and which passes under my garage area about 3 metres down.  So keeping the drains clear would prevent the problem.  

When flooding occurs outside business hours, the local emergency number is unmanned, and calls for help from Severn-Trent, the police, or the fire brigade are unsuccessful.  In short - look after yourself, because no one else will.  If we were unfortunate enough to have flood water invade our home, it would cause property insurance problems and higher premium costs in the future.  The answer - should it become necessary, disperse the water onto the council-owned land behind our home.

[yossarian247]

I've owned two different houses where the council-owned surface water drains in the road were damaged or inadequate causing localised flooding, and in both cases I got the drains permanently fixed by endlessly bombarding the council highways department with flood reports each and every time there was heavy rain. I'm always courteous when dealing with them, but I very politely make their lives hell until they give in and authorise the necessary work to be done! 

[Rhymes with Paris]

Hello Albert,are there any community minded younger people around who wouldn't mind pulling the leaves off the drain grids?

If they are resting on top that is, without recourse to a council drain sucker that would be needed if they filled the gully, which should be called out when needed anyway.

Regarding pumping the water away from your house, when you think about the logical conclusion to flooding of property,if the fire service were called in to pump out houses and gardens, I don't think they would be seeking permission as to where to pump it to.

I really don't know the legal position, but I don't think you could be in any way to be held to account for mitigating the risk of flooding to your home,your solution in absence of the council or internal drainage board fulfilling it's statutory duty, sounds quite reasonable.

 

 

 

[dannyboy413]

7 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

your solution in absence of the council or internal drainage board fulfilling it's statutory duty, sounds quite reasonable.

Council "Your Honour, Mr. Haliotis was pumping the rain water from the road onto Council owned land".

Judge, "Hmmm. Why was the rain water lying in the road instead of running away down the drains?"

🤣

[Rhymes with Paris]

6 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

Judge, "Hmmm. Why was the rain water lying in the road instead of running away down the drains?"

🤣

Council" we have no resources to pay anyone £11.44 an hour to pick up leaves blocking the drains for half an hour,as this would impact upon our senior executive's  salaries, and gold plated pensions"

[Big_D]

Council "Nor could we find any any community minded younger people who wouldn't mind pulling the leaves off the drain grids"

38 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

are there any community minded younger people around who wouldn't mind pulling the leaves off the drain grids?

[Primus1]

  So, come the Fall……autumn my friend, autumn..

[Bper]

"Unfortunately, Your Honour, we don't consider it a council priority to keep the drains clear, as, in our opinion, it would be money down the drain. Thank you, Councillor. Case dismissed."😭

[Mjolinor]

1 hour ago, Bper said:

"Unfortunately, Your Honour, we don't consider it a council priority to keep the drains clear, as, in our opinion, it would be money down the drain. Thank you, Councillor. Case dismissed."😭

Someone will end up suewering the council.

 

* I can manage my own coat but thanks for the offers.

[Haliotis]

Nick, you use the same tactics as I.  When making a complaint, my first approach to the receiving agent is to apologise to them, saying that I realise they are there to take the flak instead of their highly paid superiors.  It’s surprising how easily one can get the agent’s sympathy and  be “on your side” with their response.

Like the good humoured quips - we all need a bit of light-hearted banter to give us a smile.

Alan (Primus1), ‘Autumn’ and ‘Fall’ both mean exactly the same thing - both represent the third season of the year, and which to use is optional.  I chose ‘Fall’ because it means the fall of the leaves, and I had referred to the deciduous trees which cause the drains to become blocked. 😃

[Mjolinor]

5 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Alan (Primus1), ‘Autumn’ and ‘Fall’ both mean exactly the same thing - both represent the third season of the year, and which to use is optional.  I chose ‘Fall’ because it means the fall of the leaves, and I had referred to the deciduous trees which cause the drains to become blocked. 😃

English forum, English language. No Yankerisms thank you. 🙂

Saying that though, having been in New England in Autumn one understands why. Go to bed with grass growing outside and wake up with leaves 5 ft deep.

It really is quite amazing.

[Haliotis]

56 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

English forum, English language. No Yankerisms thank you. 🙂

 

The English language is not itself a pure language - it has derived over the centuries from French, Latin and other ancient languages, mainly through invasion of our shores by different cultures.  Today, our English language still has many words which resonate from Latin and French.   For example, “agriculture” descended from “Agricola” - Latin for Farmer.  And “Promenade” from the French verb “to walk”.  We did French and Latin in grammar school, although much of it has faded with my advancing years because I never used it after finishing school - particularly Latin.

[Cyker]

The use of non-UK english and engrish is acceptable if used in the pursuit of a good pun (Or a terrible one; I'm not fussy   )

  

4 hours ago, Mjolinor said:

Someone will end up suewering the council.

 

* I can manage my own coat but thanks for the offers.

Some might say they're probably full of **it already...

 

[Mjolinor]

2 hours ago, Haliotis said:

The English language is not itself a pure language - it has derived over the centuries from French, Latin and other ancient languages, mainly through invasion of our shores by different cultures.  Today, our English language still has many words which resonate from Latin and French.   For example, “agriculture” descended from “Agricola” - Latin for Farmer.  And “Promenade” from the French verb “to walk”.  We did French and Latin in grammar school, although much of it has faded with my advancing years because I never used it after finishing school - particularly Latin.

That is exactly why it is so readily accepted all over the world. Unlike frog and dago where they have a language academy specifying what is and what is not allowed, English changes according to common usage and that is why it will eventually become the dominant language of the world and changes such as fall and autumn are good for the language.

The random removing of letters from spelling does annoy me somewhat and the way Yankers do not seem to understand the difference between the name of a letter and the sound of a letter like saying 'ay' instead of 'a' or d eye lemma instead of dilemma, millions of examples of that up and down the language and I do not think that should ever be accepted into common usage because it introduces uncertainty and the way an English sentence only has one meaning when it is used correctly is something that should be preserved at all cost.

[Haliotis]

John said, ”…..the way an English sentence only has one meaning when it is used correctly is something that should be preserved at all cost.”

A worthwhile exercise, but who would do the “preserving”?  All the various media outlets, where once you would hear “BBC English”, or something approaching it, now it is all distorted speech.  Even many teachers are guilty of the slide into lazy speech, so pupils grow up with the fault. And when kids get into their teens, this kind of speech is regarded as “cool” and most of them would rather die than be heard to use their own country’s language correctly. That, of course, is if we were to believe them to be capable!!!

[Cyker]

<pork pie> Ya mon!

 

(I think only people older than 40 will get this  )

[Primus1]

Well, have been under the hood to check the oil, whilst I was there I got my cloth from the trunk to clean the bugs off my fender, can’t wait to go on vacation in the fall, just hope it’s only a few blocks to the hotel from the railroad and I hope it has an elevator to the top floor…

[Haliotis]

8 minutes ago, Primus1 said:

Well, have been under the hood to check the oil, whilst I was there I got my cloth from the trunk to clean the bugs off my fender, can’t wait to go on vacation in the fall, just hope it’s only a few blocks to the hotel from the railroad and I hope it has an elevator to the top floor…

If there’s no sidewalk, it might be a bit dangerous to mosey along the blacktop.