Thinking about it......

[Starensis]

Been having a think over the last few weeks about moving from my 18 Plate Excel C-HR into an bz4x.

Hybrid driving is a bit different to conventional ICE car, but now looking into full EV.

I worked on early stages of Jaguar I-Pace and thought then how interesting EV's were regarding instant power.

I won't go down the new route, so what should I look for/avoid in the used segment? Spec, Range, Issues etc......bearing in mind I have top spec C-HR

My budget is not too relevant at this point; it will be on PCP - which is not the best way to purchase a car, I know, however, it's the route I have to go down for now.

TIA.

[philip42h]

The bZ4X originally came in four grades: Pure, Motion, Vision and Premiere Edition.

The Premiere Edition is no longer available to order (new) but if you are after top spec and toys that would be the one to go for.

The Pure comes with FWD only; with the others you have the choice of FWD or AWD. You'll get a slightly better range in a FWD and, coming from a C-HR, AWD may not be on your requirements list.

Earlier cars came with a 6.6 kW onboard charger; later and current cars come with an 11 kW OBC. Since most folk are limited to a 7 kW home charger it doesn't make a heap of difference but may be a consideration if you plan to make use of destination charging.

[TonyHSD]

Bz4x seems popular within pcp , company , fleet and other types of ownership. Private buy is risky and not a wise decision unless you have plenty of money to give away. Bev aren’t any cleaner, any smarter or any better than other cars. These were pushed on consumers. People see it and started to return them, stop buying them and those has almost no value as used cars. Depreciation is unreal. We have bev , second actually after owning one for 3 years now we have brand new one again which will go back after two years and definitely settle on non bev as long term privately owned car, perhaps a Toyota hybrid. 

[Starensis]

26 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Bz4x seems popular within pcp , company , fleet and other types of ownership. Private buy is risky and not a wise decision unless you have plenty of money to give away. Bev aren’t any cleaner, any smarter or any better than other cars. These were pushed on consumers. People see it and started to return them, stop buying them and those has almost no value as used cars. Depreciation is unreal. We have bev , second actually after owning one for 3 years now we have brand new one again which will go back after two years and definitely settle on non bev as long term privately owned car, perhaps a Toyota hybrid. 

I get the concern about owning a BEV and why I asked really. 
I’m very happy with the hybrid but I’m also looking at Lexus UX. LBX is too small for me.

I do have some concerns about owning a BEV and your comments have confirmed my worries.

I’ll steer clear for now. 
 

Thanks. 👍👍

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Starensis said:

I get the concern about owning a BEV and why I asked really. 
I’m very happy with the hybrid but I’m also looking at Lexus UX. LBX is too small for me.

I do have some concerns about owning a BEV and your comments have confirmed my worries.

I’ll steer clear for now. 
 

Thanks. 👍👍

You are welcome. 
That’s just my personal opinion and view on the bev.’s in general. 
For some people they work great and are the best option, this is why we have one too. If you on the market for a used one , a 150 miles real world range no matter conditions one of the very best bev is one of the simplest and it’s a Hyundai ioniq electric, that one looks like Prius and is the same size. These are very simple cars with relatively small Battery 38kwh but very efficient and can deliver between 150-200 miles real world. Now they are well priced too and you can find an examples from £13000. 
Still if me I will keep my top spec hybrid for as long as possible and on.y buy full ev if the circumstances pushes me to do so, like for example commute to town centre or drive taxi where evs a must . 👍
 

[G S]

My BZ4X is a company car on a 3 year deal. I cant wait to give it back and very glad it is not me taking a hit on the price. Mine is just under 2 years old and has 24000 miles.

There are second had ones advertised with less than 10k miles for a lower figure than the guaranteed minimum value mine has in a years time with 36000 miles. No one will want it as a PX so it will just go back to the finance company who will have to auction it and see what they get for it

[First_Toyota]

14 minutes ago, G S said:

My BZ4X is a company car on a 3 year deal. I cant wait to give it back and very glad it is not me taking a hit on the price. Mine is just under 2 years old and has 24000 miles.

There are second had ones advertised with less than 10k miles for a lower figure than the guaranteed minimum value mine has in a years time with 36000 miles. No one will want it as a PX so it will just go back to the finance company who will have to auction it and see what they get for it

I seem to remember reading somewhere that only (something like) 1 in 15 electric vehicles are now being purchased by private buyers in the UK. As a company car the tax incentives make them a sensible choice. As a private buyer, the initial costs and astonishing depreciation make them at best risky, and at worst simply foolhardy for most. That may change, or it may not, but for now I’d stick with petrol or petrol/hybrid if spending your own money.

[Gray86]

I’ve been watching the EV market quite closely, and very much believe that unless your buying for company tax reasons, and used EV is a much better proposition than new. You can pick up a nearly new BZ4X for 30% off asking price - maybe more. That’s a big chunk of the depreciation curve gone, leaving future depreciation much more palatable. We bought my wife (exactly a year ago) a SEAT Mii electric for around. £11k, the same car now is around £10k (3 years old with 6k miles), so depreciation hasn’t been horrendous really. 

[TonyHSD]

16 hours ago, Gray86 said:

I’ve been watching the EV market quite closely, and very much believe that unless your buying for company tax reasons, and used EV is a much better proposition than new. You can pick up a nearly new BZ4X for 30% off asking price - maybe more. That’s a big chunk of the depreciation curve gone, leaving future depreciation much more palatable. We bought my wife (exactly a year ago) a SEAT Mii electric for around. £11k, the same car now is around £10k (3 years old with 6k miles), so depreciation hasn’t been horrendous really. 

The problem is after these 3-4 years of age , after year 6-10 when the traction Battery goes burst or lose its capacity in half then the car will worth only £1000 , where a Yaris hybrid 10 years old might be £10000  

The evs of today Battery technology aren’t any better than ice or hybrids and  will cause havoc in the used car market pushing used ice cars sky high prices, this along with the latest safety futures. 
 

[Gray86]

6 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

The problem is after these 3-4 years of age , after year 6-10 when the traction battery goes burst or lose its capacity in half then the car will worth only £1000 , where a Yaris hybrid 10 years old might be £10000  

The evs of today battery technology aren’t any better than ice or hybrids and  will cause havoc in the used car market pushing used ice cars sky high prices, this along with the latest safety futures. 
 

As a high mileage driver Tony, I thought this may appeal:

 

it also has FREE lifetime supercharging, so those miles have been very cheap indeed. See the other videos in the series - I think there are two or 3. It has NEVER been serviced either. 
 

puts to bed a few myths about EV batteries. 
 

EDIT: episode 1 here with the full background: 

 

 

[TonyHSD]

29 minutes ago, Gray86 said:

As a high mileage driver Tony, I thought this may appeal:

 

it also has FREE lifetime supercharging, so those miles have been very cheap indeed. See the other videos in the series - I think there are two or 3. It has NEVER been serviced either. 
 

puts to bed a few myths about EV batteries. 
 

EDIT: episode 1 here with the full background: 

 

 

I thought about Tesla back in 2018 but then I have changed my mind as it was too risky to buy. Ten money saved from petrol £500 a month could have paid for the car but I am glad I didn’t buy it. 
Battery is the problem. Way too expensive 

[Gray86]

20 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

I thought about Tesla back in 2018 but then I have changed my mind as it was too risky to buy. Ten money saved from petrol £500 a month could have paid for the car but I am glad I didn’t buy it. 
Battery is the problem. Way too expensive 

Outside of warranty, it is a risk. There are many 400+ thousand mile Model S out there on original batteries, so it’s not as big a risk as you may think. My sister has one with lifetime free supercharging, which she plans to keep running for a long time (it only has 155 k on it now), thinking that the cost savings of never paying for electricity to fuel it will more than offset the cost of a replacement or repair for the Battery. 
 

with the supercharger network growing rapidly across Europe you are never far away from a supercharger (with 99.6% reliability rate). Uk has seen this year so far 20 new locations, with 323 charging bays. plenty more to come by Christmas too! 

[forkingabout]

I know we have some bZ4X on the company car fleet - its a middle management grade of company vehicle. 

 

[Cyker]

30 minutes ago, Gray86 said:

My sister has one with lifetime free supercharging, which she plans to keep running for a long time (it only has 155 k on it now), thinking that the cost savings of never paying for electricity to fuel it will more than offset the cost of a replacement or repair for the battery. 

Getting one with free lifetime supercharging is a big win for those, I think they stopped offering that some time ago!

Just be careful as I've heard a few people have had supercharging disabled due to heavy use, ostensibly to save the Battery from premature degradation.

I'm curious, how's the tally for electricity saving vs Battery replacement gone so far? I would have said no chance before, but with free charging vs current rapid charger and fuel prices it may be more plausible...!

 

[Gray86]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Getting one with free lifetime supercharging is a big win for those, I think they stopped offering that some time ago!

Just be careful as I've heard a few people have had supercharging disabled due to heavy use, ostensibly to save the battery from premature degradation.

I'm curious, how's the tally for electricity saving vs battery replacement gone so far? I would have said no chance before, but with free charging vs current rapid charger and fuel prices it may be more plausible...!

 

I think it’s only Model S & Model X that had it, for certain production years as incentivisation to buy one. Many that have passed through the Tesla dealer network in recent years have had that perk disabled, but there are a few on car sales sites ( Autotrader, Gumtree etc) with it. My sister also has a model X for the company - also with free supercharging. With 3 supercharger sites in Exeter where they live, it works well as you can imagine. 
 

I think they have only done 20k miles in the last 18 months, having bought the car used with  around 125k miles. The Battery is now just out of warranty (it’s a 2015 car), and only has minimal degredation, with no signs of imminent failure. Even if the Battery fails now, and they pay 10-15k for a new / refurbished pack ( I think Tesla will do a Model 3/Y Battery for £10k now, but not sure about Model S), a replacement battery if covered by circa 5 years of driving, possibly? As energy prices rise, the proposition appeals even more. 
 

importantly, the likelyhood of failure is very low. Despite what the media says, these batteries seem to be lasting 300-400k no problem. Tesla battery management system is second to non, with the ability to control temperatures and ‘take care’ of the battery even if the owners don’t spare it a second thought. 
 

there is a Facebook group called ‘Tesla high mileage club’ which shows these cars can do massive mileages with the most minimal of maintenance. A bit of suspension at 100k miles, and that’s it. Many with 200,300, even 400k miles with little maintenance costs. Very intriguing!

[Starensis]

Reading all your replies, just convinces me going full BEV is not for me atm.

I’ll stick with my C-HR for now, then possibly look at gen 5 or 6 hybrid in a couple of years. Hopefully, the mpg will be 100+ mpg by then. 🙏🏼🙏🏼

Thanks all for your input and comments. 👍👍👍

[Cyker]

TBH unless you have a compelling reason to change your car then you're better off sticking - It's better for your wallet and the environment!

My last two car changes were only precipitated by KHAAAAAN! and his stupid ULEZ cash-grab, otherwise I'd still have my Mk1 D4D  

I'd like an EV at some point because electric motors are great, but for me they just aren't there yet. We're still in the Prius 2 era of EVs IMHO, so they can work but have got a long way to go.

Ironically by forcing my hand to getting the Mk4 hybrid, the bar's been set much higher for an EV than it was when I still had the Mk1 and Mk2...!

 

[cviclark]

PCP currently 0% APR free wall charger £2k Toyota contribution and a Dealer contribution or discount. Why is this not best deal for a Private buyer? Cash zero discount or contribution or wall box.

I tried LEXUS 300 e and Honda Eny1 before choosing BZ4X. The new Prius was a disappointment. The Lexus is too small for my needs, best to drive. The Honda best specification but poor to drive as re-gen too fierce, noisy, poor freshair ventilation. £4.5K off list Lexus. £6.5K + 5 years service off Honda.

My 2016 Gen4 still has a good residual value so now appears the best time. I was fed up of waiting for the Gen 5.

Manufacturers face huge financial penalties if they do not meet Govt targets of 22% zero emissions sales. This effects those with only a small EV selection on sale. Not Tesla or Chinese Manufacturers with large EV range offerings like BYD/ MG.

 

 

 

 

[Gray86]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:40 PM, cviclark said:

PCP currently 0% APR free wall charger £2k Toyota contribution and a Dealer contribution or discount. Why is this not best deal for a Private buyer? Cash zero discount or contribution or wall box.

I tried LEXUS 300 e and Honda Eny1 before choosing BZ4X. The new Prius was a disappointment. The Lexus is too small for my needs, best to drive. The Honda best specification but poor to drive as re-gen too fierce, noisy, poor freshair ventilation. £4.5K off list Lexus. £6.5K + 5 years service off Honda.

My 2016 Gen4 still has a good residual value so now appears the best time. I was fed up of waiting for the Gen 5.

Manufacturers face huge financial penalties if they do not meet Govt targets of 22% zero emissions sales. This effects those with only a small EV selection on sale. Not Tesla or Chinese Manufacturers with large EV range offerings like BYD/ MG.

 

 

 

 

If you can get yourself on a cheap EV tariff, it will be less than 2p per mile to run. That is under £200 to do 10,000 miles (assuming you don’t stray beyond the range of the Battery, as public chargers are much more expensive). 15 year Battery warranty, as well as Toyotas 10yr warranty. With the 0% deal it will be tempting for many! 
 

make sure you renew your free Road Tax (VED) in March next year so you can avoid paying for it until 2026, that’s a little EV hack 

[wivenhoe]

I think the 15 year warranty is on Hybrid batteries and not EV batteries. Lexus initially marketed the RZ Battery to be 90% at 10 years and then after the range update (reduced the Battery buffer size) it is now 8 years. I doubt Toyota will offer more on the bz as it uses similar batteries. No EV’s come with a 100% warranty as all EV batteries will degrade over time 

[wivenhoe]

My reading of the road tax is all EV’s fall into paying it from next April. If the car was registered before then it is £ 190 but (currently before Labour change it) without the luxury £ 410. After April, EV’s will pay the £ 410 and as all bz’s list above £ 40k they will fall into. I cannot see Labour keeping the exemption for the £ 410 for cars registered before April 25. 

[philip42h]

28 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

I think the 15 year warranty is on Hybrid batteries and not EV batteries. Lexus initially marketed the RZ battery to be 90% at 10 years and then after the range update (reduced the battery buffer size) it is now 8 years. I doubt Toyota will offer more on the bz as it uses similar batteries. No EV’s come with a 100% warranty as all EV batteries will degrade over time 

To be precise:

Quote

We provide up to 10 years battery warranty with the Toyota bZ4X. Battery warranty is provided through an initial 8 years manufacturer warranty from the vehicle’s registration date. An additional 12 months warranty is included with every qualifying service at an authorised Toyota dealer, up to 10 years from the vehicle’s registration date.

 

[cviclark]

12 hours ago, Gray86 said:

If you can get yourself on a cheap EV tariff, it will be less than 2p per mile to run. That is under £200 to do 10,000 miles (assuming you don’t stray beyond the range of the battery, as public chargers are much more expensive). 15 year battery warranty, as well as Toyotas 10yr warranty. With the 0% deal it will be tempting for many! 
 

make sure you renew your free Road Tax (VED) in March next year so you can avoid paying for it until 2026, that’s a little EV hack 

Plus I have solar panels so will only charge when the sun shines

[wivenhoe]

12 hours ago, philip42h said:

To be precise:

 

I don’t think that they are guaranteeing that at 10 years the Battery will still be at 100% capacity. They are warranting against a total failure, as do Lexus but I suspect there will be some terms & conditions about the degradation. I had a quick trawl on the net and came across an article saying - Toyota has guaranteed that the 71.4kWh lithium-ion Battery unit will retain at least 70% of its capacity for up to 10 years or one million kilometers

That’s a bit less than Lexus and but in line with other manufacturers. 

[cviclark]

The app says new BZ4X arrived Portsbury (Bristol). No delivery forecast yet. BG home charger video call next month. So guess it will be on a 3pin charger all day, every day if its early. Its a whole new learning curve. The app says it was built in Toyota City Japan. I heard some came from China, but it appears LHD China, RHD Japan.

Any advice on insurance or tips on charging grateful recieved.

I will be very sad to see my much loved Prius go.