Caravan towing

[Eddiefh]

Hi all , sorry if this has been asked in the past , does anyone know if I’d beable to tow a caravan with a 2017 2litre petrol rav4 - it the non hybrid version 4 wheel drive model I’m interested in with cvt . 
the caravan would be a 4 birth single axle, or would I be better with either of the hybrids both new and previous versions. 

[philip42h]

The towing capacity of a 2017 2.0 petrol, auto, AWD is 1500 kg. The equivalent 4.4 hybrids have a towing capacity of 800 kg (FWD) and 1650 kg (AWD).

The 4.5 hybrids start with the same towing capacity of 800 kg (FWD) and 1650 kg (AWD) but there are some reductions for the GR Sport grades.

I've no idea of the weight of your caravan ...

[Eddiefh]

[Flatcoat]

With that MTPLM you SHOULD be fine. I note you have sent me a PM so this is my response. As an aside the towing ability of a Skoda Superb is utterly irrelevant unless you are looking for a Superb (they are good tow cars). The only way to confirm towing weight ability is to check the weights on the VIN plate usually found in the driver door jamb on most cars. The RAV4.5 PHEV towing weight is 1500kg albeit the new GR sport is lower for unfathomable reasons. 

[TonyHSD]

Cvt aren’t any good for towing. Hybrid is ok if permitted to do so but cvt with belt aren’t at all even if they are permitted to tow. Better be with manual or standard auto with gears and torque converter. 

[Flatcoat]

11 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Cvt aren’t any good for towing. Hybrid is ok if permitted to do so but cvt with belt aren’t at all even if they are permitted to tow. Better be with manual or standard auto with gears and torque converter. 

You clearly know absolutely nothing about eCVT and how it works. I have towed my 1550kg caravan literally thousands of miles with my RAV4 PHEV. I have also towed with cars with manual, DSG and TC gearboxes. I suggest the OP listens to those with experience of eCVT and towing. Oscarmax is another who tows very happily. 

[GBgraham]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

You clearly know absolutely nothing about eCVT and how it works. I have towed my 1550kg caravan literally thousands of miles with my RAV4 PHEV. I have also towed with cars with manual, DSG and TC gearboxes. I suggest the OP listens to those with experience of eCVT and towing. Oscarmax is another who tows very happily. 

Rather a harsh reply Flatcoat, where the ones you mention (hev/phev) as you correctly state are not belt driven but I fancy a 2017 2litre petrol rav4 non hybrid version 4 wheel drive model will be🤔

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

You clearly know absolutely nothing about eCVT and how it works. I have towed my 1550kg caravan literally thousands of miles with my RAV4 PHEV. I have also towed with cars with manual, DSG and TC gearboxes. I suggest the OP listens to those with experience of eCVT and towing. Oscarmax is another who tows very happily. 

Calm down mate, he's talking about CVT, not eCVT - He even *explicitly* makes that differentiation in his post if you read it carefully! - and he's right - Towing with a CVT is just asking for trouble as those push-belts really aren't good for taking high torque loads and especially torque shocks.

Also Tony probably knows more about eCVTs than anyone on here - He's one of the longer-time members on here, his car's an OG Auris hybrid and is probably going to hit 300k, and is one of the few people here who've had their hybrid so long they replaced the traction Battery in it, and he did it himself!

 

[philip42h]

9 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

a 2017 2litre petrol rav4 non hybrid version 4 wheel drive ...

... is a belt driven CVT. OK, it's a state-of-the-art Toyota one rather than a manky old Daf one, but it still employs two cones and a belt.

AFAIK the direct-shift version - that included a fixed gear for take-off - wasn't introduced until 2018.

And I've absolutely no experience as to how good, bad, or indifferent it is for towing ... 😉

[TonyHSD]

Cvt not eCVT , and i clearly know a lot about cars and drive and work on cars every day. But that’s ok. Everyone has its own opinion. 👍

[Oscarmax]

20 hours ago, Eddiefh said:

Hi all , sorry if this has been asked in the past , does anyone know if I’d beable to tow a caravan with a 2017 2litre petrol rav4 - it the non hybrid version 4 wheel drive model I’m interested in with cvt . 
the caravan would be a 4 birth single axle, or would I be better with either of the hybrids both new and previous versions. 

As far as I can recall the 4.4 RAV4 was not a particularly stable towing vehicle, as regards the CVT transmission I have no experience or knowledge so cannot advise. I am assuming you have not purchased the RAV4 yet.

 

[Eddiefh]

No not yet was wanting the new shape around 2020-22 but was also considering a 2 litre petrol from 2018 but wasn’t sure at all on the towing rules , now I’ve found a online calculator that allows you to match cars to caravans . Really don’t want a diesel as i do a lot of short trips for work 

[Oscarmax]

55 minutes ago, Eddiefh said:

No not yet was wanting the new shape around 2020-22 but was also considering a 2 litre petrol from 2018 but wasn’t sure at all on the towing rules , now I’ve found a online calculator that allows you to match cars to caravans . Really don’t want a diesel as i do a lot of short trips for work 

I am not sure of your budget, personally I would go for a 4.5 (new shape) RAV4 HEV even a high mileage example, we have just returned from Cornwall towing in HV mode unbelievable fuel consumption

[Flatcoat]

I apologise to the OP and Tony for the tone of my response, however the main gist still applies. Referring to DAF style ‘rubber band’ Variomatic CVT in context of Toyota and their eCVT is somewhat irrelevant. Ford also use eCVT (which I have read is made under license from Toyota?) and make a virtue of the towing ability (weight) of the face lifted Kuga. The Highlander used the same running gear as the RAV4.5 HEV AWD and had a 2tonne tow weight limit. It still comes down to the fact I am on my third year of towing with my PHEV with out any problems. I have also yet to read of towing related issues with the transmission. Moving on, websites which give towing weights should only be taken as a guide. The onus is still on the driver/owner to check legality before buying. And don’t ask the salesman! They will tell you what you want to hear!!

[APS]

17 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

we have just returned from Cornwall towing in HV mode unbelievable fuel consumption

What is the towing capacity of your Across? 1500 kg?

[philip42h]

33 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

The Highlander used the same running gear as the RAV4.5 HEV AWD and had a 2tonne tow weight limit.

I don't believe that it does - the Highlander uses the next size up eCVT system (with the same ICE as the 4.5 HEV) ... I think ... 😉

[philip42h]

21 minutes ago, APS said:

What is the towing capacity of your Across? 1500 kg?

Yes ... it'll be exactly the same as the 4.5 PHEV since that's what it is.

And, by chance, that is also exactly the same towing capacity as the "2 litre petrol from 2018" that was the original subject of this thread.

But, before anyone says it, I'm pretty sure that we would all be happier with the behaviour of a 4.5 hybrid (HEV or PHEV) using electric motors to pull away from rest, rather than having a 2.0 petrol winding it's CVT up to peak torque on take-off! 😉

[philip42h]

21 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

As far as I can recall the 4.4 RAV4 was not a particularly stable towing vehicle

The 4.4 AWD diesel manual has a towing capacity of 2000 kg making the 4.4 a pretty reasonable and stable prospect ...

I note that a diesel is not what the OP wants but, equally, there's nothing much fundamentally wrong with the 4.4 as a tractor.

[APS]

9 minutes ago, philip42h said:

But, before anyone says it, I'm pretty sure that we would all be happier with the behaviour of a 4.5 hybrid (HEV or PHEV) using electric motors to pull away from rest, rather than having a 2.0 petrol winding it's CVT up to peak torque on take-off! 😉

Agreed. Need slush box for plain ICE.

[Flatcoat]

5 hours ago, philip42h said:

I don't believe that it does - the Highlander uses the next size up eCVT system (with the same ICE as the 4.5 HEV) ... I think ... 😉

I understood the Highlander to use the same platform and vehicle architecture as the RAV. You may be correct about the eCVT used although in my research into the Highlander (I nearly bought one) everything I read refers to being same as RAV  transmission. 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

I understood the Highlander to use the same platform and vehicle architecture as the RAV. You may be correct about the eCVT used although in my research into the Highlander (I nearly bought one) everything I read refers to being same as RAV transmission. 

Well, we are both correct ... sort of:

• The RAV4.5 HEV uses the P710 transmission
• The Highlander hybrid (2020-) and RAV 4.5 PHEV uses the P810 transmission

[TonyHSD]

The problem with standard cvt on non hybrid cars is the weak points which are the steal belt and cones.

These are not ideal for high torque applications since when loaded the belt can slip and cause excess heat, stretch, burn and break plus excess wear on the cones surface. Cooked fluid too which will lead to premature wear on the bearings and differential.

Cvt transmission with cones and belts only suitable for small cars or scooters motorbikes. Lightweight vehicles with small engines and less total weight.

Best for towing vehicles are diesel powered with automatic transmission with torque converter with lock up function.  
The benefits are fluid coupling when stationary or when pulling away which reduces friction and heat , then lock up function that makes direct torque transfer between engine and driving wheels. This is the reason why Toyota has employed 6 and 8 speed autos in their heavy duty tracks available in USA together with petrol engine and electric motor instead of a diesel unit and they called this system hybrid max and I-force max. 

Apology accepted and no offence taken.  We all have rights on our own opinions. 
I can’t say anything about phev as I never owned or driven one. Perhaps they will be very good too as they have powerful electric motor and unique and robust ecvt which is totally different from standard cvt transmissions. 
 

 

[Marcusthehat]

There are so many variables with towing, the 5 main ones being the skill of the driver, the weight of the towed item, the steepness of the terrain, the wind strength, and, not least,  the ambient temperature.

So the manufacturers stated towing weights will most likely be the lowest common denominator permed across all 5 factors.

All I know is that our 2021 Rav 4 tows like a dream, but I opted for the 4WD/AWD version to get the higher legal tow rating, and having enquired on here, the only possible/likely downside to overloading the transmission could be/would be excess heat**, which in our limited N.I. topography and temperatures would be highly unlikely.

However, in so far as is possible to judge(several trailer loads of unweighed bushes), I have stayed well within the stated tow weight.

And I would also presume? that Toyota would have sensors that moniter for excess heat about the motors, and at least warn the driver, or put the vehicle into some sort of limp mode.

Perhaps not entirely, or specifically pertinent to the OP, but my happenyworth.

**This excess heat due to towing, in this case with a TC auto,  was discussed at some length on a MB forum wrt the towing capabilites of the ML, and why MB charged so much "extra over" for their "towbar" ready option. It was for the signifecently enhanced cooling provided for the transmission.

 

 

[Flatcoat]

Towing weights are set by ability to tow a given weight at a prescribed speed up gradients of 12 and 8%. Which is why some manufacturers give 2 tow weight limits, all subject to chassis strength coping with said weight. It is impossible for a manufacturer to factor in unknown variables of wind, temperature and driver skill. Towing stability is determined by many factors including correct tyre pressures, load distribution, nose weight, worn suspension and so on. 

[Eddiefh]

Gone with my gut and something I’ve wanted since I was based in Cyprus and they were tax free and also top gear did the piece on the Hilux maybe 15-20 years ago . I’ve bought a hilux outright trading in my e class but will in next year get a rav4 hybrid for work as I really like the look and ease for home serving . Loved my verso it’s been a excellent car especially being able to fill it with kids on birthdays and holidays and very simple to service at home , will definitely miss the 7 seats I did look at a serento 7 seat but the Badge I couldn’t get past .