Grumpy old man (The things I hate)

[FROSTYBALLS]

Also is this the six year/60,000 mile Full service where, from memory, the spark plugs are changed ?

[Bper]

30 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The Relax warranty is a Europe wide initiative so presumably Toyota GB had to fall into line. 

The car is seven years old, and depending on the car's actual service history, shouldn't it be due an Intermediate service rather than Full?

Just looked at last years invoice it was for a 70,000 7 year intermediate service so this one is a full one  plus MOT.👍

[Yugguy1970]

21 hours ago, Bper said:

Guy, you are right it is daylight robbery and I think many of us understand a business needs to make a profit but these servicing and parts charges are making our motoring costs to a point for many  unaffordable. It takes some believing that you can in my case take in a 1.2T Auris and end up with an invoice for a MOT and full service with VAT over £5O0. This is also providing that nothing else is found that needs replacing or repair. 🤬

What really annoyed me was there is still 4mm left on the tyres, the car does hardly any miles, and the pads are only 40% worn.  There's a bit of surface rust on the discs as the car doesnt get used much, but it passed the MOT as none of this is actually bad or dangerous.  But someone who didn't know would worry and end up paying 580 quid that they didn't need to.

[moggio53]

Ive just had the 3rd year service on my RAV 4 using my pre paid service plan and they didn't charge for the MOT which surprised me. In fact I only paid for new Wiper Blades

[Haliotis]

On 10/31/2024 at 11:30 AM, Yugguy1970 said:

What really annoyed me was there is still 4mm left on the tyres, the car does hardly any miles, and the pads are only 40% worn.  There's a bit of surface rust on the discs as the car doesnt get used much, but it passed the MOT as none of this is actually bad or dangerous.  But someone who didn't know would worry and end up paying 580 quid that they didn't need to.

Why are they quoting work that is not worn to the normal point of wear?   I change my tyres at 3mm - a recommended minimum standard by most premium tyre companies for optimum road grip.  The brake pads still have substantial life left in them at 40% wear.  There will always be surface rust on the discs, which are soon rendered clean in the swept areas - they are, after all made of a ferrous material.

You need to keep an eye on service engineers pushing to sell replacement items prematurely.  When I had a VW Caravelle, at one service the Health Check showed renewal needed because the rear discs were “corroded” - this at about 12,000 miles, so I decided to leave it.  At next 12 month service (different engineer), no mention was made of the “corroded discs”, and this remained so over the next three years, at which time I changed the vehicle.

[Bper]

37 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Why are they quoting work that is not worn to the normal point of wear?   I change my tyres at 3mm - a recommended minimum standard by most premium tyre companies for optimum road grip.  The brake pads still have substantial life left in them at 40% wear.  There will always be surface rust on the discs, which are soon rendered clean in the swept areas - they are, after all made of a ferrous material.

You need to keep an eye on service engineers pushing to sell replacement items prematurely.  When I had a VW Caravelle, at one service the Health Check showed renewal needed because the rear discs were “corroded” - this at about 12,000 miles, so I decided to leave it.  At next 12 month service (different engineer), no mention was made of the “corroded discs”, and this remained so over the next three years, at which time I changed the vehicle.

Hi Albert, ironically I had my Auris serviced and MOT today. This was the result.

So,after an early drop-off at 8 am at our Toyota dealer, 21/2 hours later, after a full service and MOT, the Auris passed but with a couple of advisories. Both rear tyres have slight cracking. Also, on the vehicle health check, it was noted under 'Attention in the Near Future':

Front brake pads 70% worn

Front discs lipped, likely requiring replacement when pads are due

N/S rear tyre cracking (check at next visit)

O/S rear tyre cracking (check at next visit)

Price quoted: £335.00

Invoice for the MOT and full service:
Total: £479.83

So next time, if I had them carry out the above along with an intermediate service and MOT, the cost will be over £600. I will be doing the work myself but it gives an idea of dealer prices for this type of work. I don't know how this compares to other Toyota dealers.The Auris is a 1.2T 2017 with 45,000 Grumpy at the price.😠

[Haliotis]

Re:Front discs lipped, likely requiring replacement when pads are due.

Because of long term corrosion, the difference of level between the swept and unswept areas of the discs will be accentuated.  On the discs, perhaps on the outer diameter edge or on the hub, there should be a stamped minimum thickness indication.  When the swept areas are clean, and the discs cold, use a micrometer to measure the actual disc thickness of the swept areas.  This will tell you if the minimum thickness is below what is stamped on the discs.

[Bper]

I think what surprises me is that many of us do very low mileage in retirement compared to when we were working, yet it seems that tyres don’t like this inactivity, and cracking is unfortunately a result. It doesn’t seem to make a difference if you use your car more or less than others; tyres are still going to wear no matter what.☹️

[Eddie G]

8 hours ago, Bper said:

Hi Albert, ironically I had my Auris serviced and MOT today. This was the result.

So,after an early drop-off at 8 am at our Toyota dealer, 21/2 hours later, after a full service and MOT, the Auris passed but with a couple of advisories. Both rear tyres have slight cracking. Also, on the vehicle health check, it was noted under 'Attention in the Near Future':

Front brake pads 70% worn

Front discs lipped, likely requiring replacement when pads are due

N/S rear tyre cracking (check at next visit)

O/S rear tyre cracking (check at next visit)

Price quoted: £335.00

Invoice for the MOT and full service:
Total: £479.83

So next time, if I had them carry out the above along with an intermediate service and MOT, the cost will be over £600. I will be doing the work myself but it gives an idea of dealer prices for this type of work. I don't know how this compares to other Toyota dealers.The Auris is a 1.2T 2017 with 45,000 Grumpy at the price.😠

Main dealer prices are shocking, am using an independent I've used in the past for tyres in future to service my Yaris 1.5, current prices are £210 (Major) £150 (Interim) and £45 for an M.O.T at the same time with them.

[Bper]

7 hours ago, Eddie G said:

Main dealer prices are shocking, am using an independent I've used in the past for tyres in future to service my Yaris 1.5, current prices are £210 (Major) £150 (Interim) and £45 for an M.O.T at the same time with them.

Hi Eddie, I think I'm going to ask a few local garages how much they charge for an intermediate and full service to get an idea how much difference there is.👍

[Haliotis]

I am a retiree, so my annual mileage is quite low.  Regarding degrading of tyres, for caravans the recommended maximum life of the tyres is 7 years, regardless of them still being virtually full tread.  Perhaps car tyres should have a similar recommended life span?

Concerning dealership service costs, in the case of Toyota does the 10-year warranty make dealership service worthwhile?  Do we know exactly what the warranty covers?  And, for very low mileage owners, would using an independent garage and disregarding the 10-year warranty be a better option?

[Bper]

48 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

I am a retiree, so my annual mileage is quite low.  Regarding degrading of tyres, for caravans the recommended maximum life of the tyres is 7 years, regardless of them still being virtually full tread.  Perhaps car tyres should have a similar recommended life span?

Concerning dealership service costs, in the case of Toyota does the 10-year warranty make dealership service worthwhile?  Do we know exactly what the warranty covers?  And, for very low mileage owners, would using an independent garage and disregarding the 10-year warranty be a better option?

That's a good question, and it's something I've been pondering for some time. Like you, I’m a low-mileage driver, and I’ve wondered about the value of the Relax warranty, especially for older vehicles. I worry that if an issue arose that should technically be covered, it might just be written off as "wear and tear."

I've read many posts from other members who faced high repair bills for problems they assumed would be covered. Cyker mentioned in a post above, “I think they should have kept the extended warranty programme, as although you had to pay for it, it was closer to the factory warranty in terms of coverage.” I think that might have been a  option.

The challenge remains, though, with how "wear and tear" is defined—it seems ambiguous. The 10-year Relax warranty was certainly an effective marketing strategy, especially for dealers.

For low-mileage drivers like us, the cost of dealer servicing for warranty peace of mind is something to consider. It’s reassuring, but definitely hard on the wallet.🤔

 

 

[Eddie G]

2 hours ago, Haliotis said:

I am a retiree, so my annual mileage is quite low.  Regarding degrading of tyres, for caravans the recommended maximum life of the tyres is 7 years, regardless of them still being virtually full tread.  Perhaps car tyres should have a similar recommended life span?

Concerning dealership service costs, in the case of Toyota does the 10-year warranty make dealership service worthwhile?  Do we know exactly what the warranty covers?  And, for very low mileage owners, would using an independent garage and disregarding

1 hour ago, Bper said:

That's a good question, and it's something I've been pondering for some time. Like you, I’m a low-mileage driver, and I’ve wondered about the value of the Relax warranty, especially for older vehicles. I worry that if an issue arose that should technically be covered, it might just be written off as "wear and tear."

I've read many posts from other members who faced high repair bills for problems they assumed would be covered. Cyker mentioned in a post above, “I think they should have kept the extended warranty programme, as although you had to pay for it, it was closer to the factory warranty in terms of coverage.” I think that might have been a  option.

The challenge remains, though, with how "wear and tear" is defined—it seems ambiguous. The 10-year Relax warranty was certainly an effective marketing strategy, especially for dealers.

For low-mileage drivers like us, the cost of dealer servicing for warranty peace of mind is something to consider. It’s reassuring, but definitely hard on the wallet.🤔

 

 

the 10-year warranty be a better option?

I've chosen the independent route, with the service plan i had it was making the one interm service alone near the cost of a full service at an independent garage! 

[Eddie G]

2 hours ago, Haliotis said:

I am a retiree, so my annual mileage is quite low.  Regarding degrading of tyres, for caravans the recommended maximum life of the tyres is 7 years, regardless of them still being virtually full tread.  Perhaps car tyres should have a similar recommended life span?

Concerning dealership service costs, in the case of Toyota does the 10-year warranty make dealership service worthwhile?  Do we know exactly what the warranty covers?  And, for very low mileage owners, would using an independent garage and disregarding the 10-year warranty be a better option?

Same here, low miles a year and you pay way more for a service at a main dealer to get your 'Free' year's warranty it doesn't seem worth it, plus will a lot of items come under 'Wear and Tear' am guessing they will.

[Eddie G]

4 hours ago, Bper said:

Hi Eddie, I think I'm going to ask a few local garages how much they charge for an intermediate and full service to get an idea how much difference there is.👍

Definitely worth a look around especially when the point of buying a Toyota is for the build quality and reliability, driving low miles is a warranty really needed? or is it more a gimmick to get you to use main dealer's for service and MOTs? 

[Bper]

2 hours ago, Eddie G said:

Definitely worth a look around especially when the point of buying a Toyota is for the build quality and reliability, driving low miles is a warranty really needed? or is it more a gimmick to get you to use main dealer's for service and MOTs? 

The Relax warranty from Toyota could be seen as a psychological marketing strategy aimed at owners of older vehicles. By offering this warranty, Toyota taps into the peace of mind that comes with knowing their vehicle is covered, which is particularly appealing for those concerned about the reliability of aging cars.

The warranty helps build trust and confidence in the brand, encouraging customers to consider buying a used Toyota with the reassurance of support if something goes wrong. This can make the idea of owning an older vehicle more attractive, as it mitigates some of the perceived risks of purchasing a used car.

While the Relax warranty does provide genuine value to some buyers, it’s also a way for Toyota to stand out in the competitive used car market. However, there’s still a question of whether the dealer servicing costs required to maintain the warranty are worth it, especially as coverage exclusions like wear and tear could result in unexpected expenses.

To make an informed decision, comparing dealer servicing costs with those of local garages is key. If there’s a substantial difference, opting for local servicing may be a more cost-effective choice for older vehicle owners.🤔

[Haliotis]

My plan is an independent company through Toyota. This expires around mid-2025, when I have an option to renew it. Is it any different from the Relax warranty, which i know nothing about?   My problem is that I may have allowed myself to be brain-washed into thinking that a Toyota service dept is safer because their engineers are “Toyota trained”.  Then there is the comfort(?) of believing that, if a job by a Toyota dealership is improperly carried out, the combination of a service plan plus the Toyota service would leave an owner in a better position to obtain a FOC rectification.  So one is left with the dilemma of what-to-do for the best.  I am aware of a well thought of independent only about 2 miles from where we live. Our son has had his VW Passat (63-plate, so well clear of warranty considerations) repaired there to avoid high repair costs, even though he has a service plan with VW, and the repairs (using VW genuine parts where needed) are about half what the VW dealership charges.

[Bper]

46 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

My plan is an independent company through Toyota. This expires around mid-2025, when I have an option to renew it. Is it any different from the Relax warranty, which i know nothing about?   My problem is that I may have allowed myself to be brain-washed into thinking that a Toyota service dept is safer because their engineers are “Toyota trained”.  Then there is the comfort(?) of believing that, if a job by a Toyota dealership is improperly carried out, the combination of a service plan plus the Toyota service would leave an owner in a better position to obtain a FOC rectification.  So one is left with the dilemma of what-to-do for the best.  I am aware of a well thought of independent only about 2 miles from where we live. Our son has had his VW Passat (63-plate, so well clear of warranty considerations) repaired there to avoid high repair costs, even though he has a service plan with VW, and the repairs (using VW genuine parts where needed) are about half what the VW dealership charges.

I wonder how many members with older vehicles without price plans etc find the dealers service costs and whether they may be considering using a independent garage ?🫤

[Bper]

Normally, at this time of year, we hear fireworks going off, but so far, the only bang we've heard is a neighbor closing their car door. Even the organised displays seem to have disappeared. Damn i can't even complain about the noise now.😡

[Rhymes with Paris]

2 hours ago, Bper said:

I wonder how many members with older vehicles without price plans etc find the dealers service costs and whether they may be considering using a independent garage ?🫤

Well, I did post a year or two ago about a indie garage that I initially had a really good feeling about with my old Yaris.

An old classic car in a corner being restored, and what looked like old fashioned, skilled mechanics on the job.

I was wrong, my description of auxiliary belts slipping, was put on the job sheet as " steering noise"

They really did not have a clue what they were talking about on that,or any other car maintenance subject.

Very difficult to find a truly skilled, and honest mechanic, but they are out there.

 

[Mjolinor]

40 minutes ago, Bper said:

Normally, at this time of year, we hear fireworks going off, but so far, the only bang we've heard is a neighbor closing their car door. Even the organised displays seem to have disappeared. Damn i can't even complain about the noise now.😡

Perfectly permitted to whinge about the lack of noise but are you sure it aint the ears that are the problem?

It's like Armageddon here.

 

[Bper]

25 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

Perfectly permitted to whinge about the lack of noise but are you sure it aint the ears that are the problem?

It's like Armageddon here.

 

Sorry what did you say😂

[Haliotis]

13 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Well, I did post a year or two ago about a indie garage that I initially had a really good feeling about with my old Yaris.

An old classic car in a corner being restored, and what looked like old fashioned, skilled mechanics on the job.

I was wrong, my description of auxiliary belts slipping, was put on the job sheet as " steering noise"

They really did not have a clue what they were talking about on that,or any other car maintenance subject.

Very difficult to find a truly skilled, and honest mechanic, but they are out there.

 

This is the dilemma.  If you are unfortunate enough to employ a rubbishy independent garage, it usually results in heartbreak and cost - often equating to a total that exceeds what a dealership service/repair would have cost.

I feel sorry for those truly reputable independents, who have to work doubly hard to prove their integrity, plus the fact that our doubts just drive us further into the hands of the dealership garages.

My late father-in-law was a garage owner.  His son was in business with him, and took over when he retired.  But when the son retired, his son, who was also a mechanic, had no interest running the business, and instead worked for another quality independent in a different area.

Modern cars are intensely technology-loaded, and franchised dealership engineers have to go on refresher courses to keep up with the developing technologies.  I have never heard of car makers having facilities for independent garage engineers to attend refresher courses, so how do these people acquire the necessary knowledge to be competent in servicing/repairing the modern motorcar?

[Mjolinor]

13 hours ago, Bper said:

Sorry what did you say😂

Ah, as well as the aural impediment you clearly need specsavers too.

 

[Mjolinor]

11 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

This is the dilemma.  If you are unfortunate enough to employ a rubbishy independent garage, it usually results in heartbreak and cost - often equating to a total that exceeds what a dealership service/repair would have cost.

I feel sorry for those truly reputable independents, who have to work doubly hard to prove their integrity, plus the fact that our doubts just drive us further into the hands of the dealership garages.

My late father-in-law was a garage owner.  His son was in business with him, and took over when he retired.  But when the son retired, his son, who was also a mechanic, had no interest running the business, and instead worked for another quality independent in a different area.

Modern cars are intensely technology-loaded, and franchised dealership engineers have to go on refresher courses to keep up with the developing technologies.  I have never heard of car makers having facilities for independent garage engineers to attend refresher courses, so how do these people acquire the necessary knowledge to be competent in servicing/repairing the modern motorcar?

If the information is anywhere then it is everywhere now. The joys of Internet living.