Stuck in first gear, couldn't change it with running engine

[Seb_90]

Hi all.

I had a bit of nightmare today. Was driving around this morning, shopping, city centre etc, must have been to a few places. The car was absolutely fine. Then went to get some fuel and ... couldn't get the car out of the first gear.

It completely stuck in the first gear. I've switched off the engine. And with the engine off I could move it into neutral just fine and started the engine again and this time it was fine, all gears would engage. 

Drove around a bit with multiple stopping and switching the engine off and on trying to replicate the same fault again but couldn't. The car is fine again.

Got home, told my partner what happened, and she tells me she had the same issue when she borrowed the car earlier this week. But in her case she got stuck in the 3rd gear and again she had stop and switch off the engine and it worked fine afterwards. 

 

Definitely something is on the way out, but what? The gear box or the clutch? 

I've changed the gearbox oil recently and I've used the correct stuff from Toyota but could it be the reason?

The only other symptom I had noticed in the last few months was a bit of vibration coming from the clutch pedal when pushed in..

 

We were meant to go on a 700 miles round trip tomorrow with that car. I guess the we are taking the gf's car lol

.

 

 

[Cyker]

My first guess is the the clutch is sticking/dragging slightly and making it difficult to get out of gear because it's still turning the gear.

Cause could be the diaphragm spring getting a bit worn, the clutch fluid having air or water in it or the master/slave cylinders getting a bit stuck.

[Bper]

Hi Seb,A likely cause is with the clutch hydraulic system, specifically the clutch master or slave cylinder. These components may not be fully disengaging the clutch, causing the difficulty in shifting gears. The temporary fix when you restart the engine suggests a problem with hydraulic pressure. The vibration in the clutch pedal also points to this.It’s probably not the gearbox, given the symptoms and your recent oil change. Check the clutch fluid level and look for leaks around the master and slave cylinders. 😀

[Seb_90]

Thank you for the replies. Just did 350 miles in my partners car (Hyundai ix35) and it has just highlighted to me how good my avensis is. Definitely would like to bring it back to life!

I believe in avensis the clutch and brake share the same fluid. It looked full when I've checked but I did flush the brakes at the same time when I was doing the gearbox oil change and I didn't flush the clutch cylinder. Maybe there is some trapped air. Will bleed it and check for leaks when I get home later in the week.

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

My first guess is the the clutch is sticking/dragging slightly and making it difficult to get out of gear because it's still turning the gear.

Cause could be the diaphragm spring getting a bit worn, the clutch fluid having air or water in it or the master/slave cylinders getting a bit stuck.

How do I check for sticking master and slave cylinders? And I guess the worn diaphragm spring means the gearbox out and a new clutch..?

[Cyker]

Without taking them out, probably look and feel mainly. For the clutch, when was it last changed? If it was changed not that long ago it's less likely, but if it's not been changed in ages and has been through a lot of slow traffic then is more likely.

Disclaimer - I'm no mechanical expert so won't be much help for the practicalities!

Bear in mind these are mostly just random guesses so might not even be in the right ballpark! But I find it's often helpful just having a place to start when diagnosticing...!

But yeah the Avensis is a lovely vehicle to be in - It's basically a Lexus before Toyota made the Lexus marque  

[TonyHSD]

Check under steering wheel the clutch pedal area for any fluid leaks, near the shaft that goes into the master cylinder, these are areas that get wet as a result of clutch master cylinder failure. All described sounds like exactly that. 
Good luck 

[Seb_90]

On 8/27/2024 at 12:06 AM, TonyHSD said:

Check under steering wheel the clutch pedal area for any fluid leaks, near the shaft that goes into the master cylinder, these are areas that get wet as a result of clutch master cylinder failure. All described sounds like exactly that. 
Good luck 

Good evening. I had a look at the area around the clutch pedal and the master cylinder itself, there are no signs of leaks or rust on both sides of the firewall.

Do you think I can have air in the system? I’ve tried to open the clutch slave cylinder bleed valve to try to bleed it but the thing is so solid, even after soaking it in penetration oil I am afraid it will break off before opening.

I have no problems with the brakes though.

 

[Seb_90]

Do you guys have any more ideas what I could Check?

[TonyHSD]

Of hydraulics seems alright and no leaks then might be the clutch as suggested earlier. I don’t know any more about it. 
Maybe someone else of can help . 

[Red_Corolla]

Do you have the old type slave cylinder that sits atop the bellhousing and pushes a mechanical actuator arm? Or is it the modern type that lives inside the bellhousing and all you see from the outside is the hydraulics?

If there's a moving arm then you should be able to get an assitant to watch it while you operate the clutch and make sure it's moving the arm by the same amount every time. That would rule out the hydraulics.

OTOH, if it's got the internal slave cylinder then the only thing you can replace without removing the gearbox is the master cylinder, so the course of action would be to first test the master (blank off the hydraulic line and make sure you can't push the pedal down any more) and then, depending on the outcome, either replace the MCL or bite the bullet and go for the full clutch replacement.

[Seb_90]

17 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

Do you have the old type slave cylinder that sits atop the bellhousing and pushes a mechanical actuator arm? Or is it the modern type that lives inside the bellhousing and all you see from the outside is the hydraulics?

If there's a moving arm then you should be able to get an assitant to watch it while you operate the clutch and make sure it's moving the arm by the same amount every time. That would rule out the hydraulics.

OTOH, if it's got the internal slave cylinder then the only thing you can replace without removing the gearbox is the master cylinder, so the course of action would be to first test the master (blank off the hydraulic line and make sure you can't push the pedal down any more) and then, depending on the outcome, either replace the MCL or bite the bullet and go for the full clutch replacement.

The slave cylinder is on the top of the transmission. I did what you described, my partner was pressing the clutch at the even time intervals and I was observing the movement of the cylinder arm. It moved without any abnormalities, same distance. The only thing I did notice was a really slight squeak coming from inside of the transmission...

I did drive around today just to try to replicate the fault again but couldn’t. The transmission seems to work OK.

[Red_Corolla]

3 hours ago, Seb_90 said:

The slave cylinder is on the top of the transmission. I did what you described, my partner was pressing the clutch at the even time intervals and I was observing the movement of the cylinder arm. It moved without any abnormalities, same distance. The only thing I did notice was a really slight squeak coming from inside of the transmission...

I did drive around today just to try to replicate the fault again but couldn’t. The transmission seems to work OK.

Glad to hear it's working well for now. You can check again when/if the issue becomes more persistent. I honestly don't know exactly what's wrong with it, but it does sound like the clutch is approaching the end of it's useful life.

[TonyHSD]

What is the condition of the brake fluid, how old it is ? You can buy one of these pencils testers they work ok. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314806823681?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7chqsx6-rog&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Old brake fluid can absorb moisture which will reduce boiling point and eventually an issues. If you haven’t change the fluid lately it is best to replace with new.

If you prefer you can only suck out the old fluid from the tank as much as you can, refill with new one and repeat same procedure few days later until you finish full 1ltr bottle of new fluid. Top up to max line. See if anything changes and if the problem comes back again. 
 

[Seb_90]

Thank you for your replies! I will do another brake fluid change just to be sure.