2l Corolla engine judder

[Cip Culea]

Hi, 

I’m new here. Just bought a 2021 TS 2l and straight away I already notice a really anoying vibration sometimes when the engine is switching from EV to ICE. On the last ocasion after a 40-50 miles jorney, when stationary in a carpark, the engine when from electric to petrol and with this we felt the whole car, steering wheel vibrate quite bad. 
Are this vibrations “normal”? 
 

Thank you.

[trashman1965]

Does this happen only at certain engine rpm? And if you notice it at around 2000 rpm when driving does it go away if you increase revs?

[trashman1965]

Read here for similar sounding issue and more symptoms that mine had:

 

Did you buy from a Toyota dealer? Any warranty with the car?

[Cip Culea]

8 minutes ago, trashman1965 said:

Does this happen only at certain engine rpm? And if you notice it at around 2000 rpm when driving does it go away if you increase revs?

I didn’t really noticed. I’ll check. I have an appointment with Toyota garage next Thursday. 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Cip Culea said:

I didn’t really noticed. I’ll check. I have an appointment with Toyota garage next Thursday. 

You can try to record the noise and share. Some of us most likely know already what it is but before we hear the noise we can’t say for sure. 
It’s a known issue with 2.0 engines from these years, and it is not normal and also can lead to damage and expensive repair in the future.

 

[seetek]

UK cars have 5-year warranty if registered before June 21 I was informed by the main dealer. 

[seetek]

Did trashman1965 have any further issues after his problem? Is that a permanent fix, new injectors & fuel rail?

[trashman1965]

Touch wood, have done 600 miles since the repair and it all seems to be ok. Mine was sept 21 registered and had 3 year warranty. Extended by another year by having service a couple weeks ago.

[nielshm]

On 9/6/2024 at 8:24 PM, TonyHSD said:

You can try to record the noise and share. Some of us most likely know already what it is but before we hear the noise we can’t say for sure. 
It’s a known issue with 2.0 engines from these years, and it is not normal and also can lead to damage and expensive repair in the future.

 

Now that's crazy. Never heard anything like that.
It's like the whole thing is ready to explode.

How many of the 2.0 are affected by this issue? Mine is november 2019, done 170 KKM, and all is nice and quiet.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, nielshm said:

Now that's crazy. Never heard anything like that.
It's like the whole thing is ready to explode.

How many of the 2.0 are affected by this issue? Mine is november 2019, done 170 KKM, and all is nice and quiet.

These are the most common signs of blocked egr system, or coolant into combustion as a result of egr cooler leaks, also an injector issues on many Toyota hybrids begin with Prius Auris ct200h gen 3 hybrids and carry on gen 4 hybrids with Corolla 2.0 , Yaris 1.5 , rav4, Camry, Lexus ES. 
Not many experienced that , but few in between and some are as result of different reasons pointed above. The knocking metallic noise comes from the  damper clutch springs which gets fully loaded because of engine misfire. 
It’s not that bad as it sounds, however if your cylinders gets filled up with any of the extra fluid like coolant or liquid fuel, or oil then a catastrophic damage can occur, similar to water flooding your engine. Liquids aren’t compressible and these engines starts with very high torque and rpm which results engine block explosion. 💥 

[trashman1965]

3 hours ago, nielshm said:

Now that's crazy. Never heard anything like that.
It's like the whole thing is ready to explode.

How many of the 2.0 are affected by this issue? Mine is november 2019, done 170 KKM, and all is nice and quiet.

It's pretty horrible at it's worst. You're certainly going to know about it.

Doesn't seem to be all but no logic/pattern that's obvious. Mine always run on Shell V-power 98/E5 since new except maybe 1 or 2 95/E10. Others have had issues using supermarket 95 and then others never had an issue. Driving style seems no affect - high use/low use, hard/economical driving.

Could be a batch problem but who knows? Hard to quantify numbers but as others have said seems isolated to certain model years on Corolla but range is 2019-2021 so batch issue not likely.

[taxidriver50005]

After a recent chat to service guy he said the injectors are actually corroding internally, he also said they have now modified the injector and has a different part number. 

Originally they were replacing injectors with the same part numbers and this caused repeat failures. 

Who knows if any of this is true.. I'm going to have to wait and see. 😜

[trashman1965]

1 hour ago, taxidriver50005 said:

After a recent chat to service guy he said the injectors are actually corroding internally, he also said they have now modified the injector and has a different part number. 

Originally they were replacing injectors with the same part numbers and this caused repeat failures. 

Who knows if any of this is true.. I'm going to have to wait and see. 😜

"Corrosion" was the term to they used to describe mine.

[TonyHSD]

And corrosion in fuel comes from what ?! 
Ethanol, water ,… E10 👌

[trashman1965]

16 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

And corrosion in fuel comes from what ?! 
Ethanol, water ,… E10 👌

Yes, potentially,  but mine was run exclusively (all bar literally 1 tank) on Shell V-power from new and others have had issues with using any fuel. If there is a redesign that could really only be different material...and also doesn't explain the many engines with same set up but not any reports of similar. 

[Red_Corolla]

3 hours ago, trashman1965 said:

Yes, potentially,  but mine was run exclusively (all bar literally 1 tank) on Shell V-power from new and others have had issues with using any fuel. If there is a redesign that could really only be different material...and also doesn't explain the many engines with same set up but not any reports of similar. 

Mine was registered in the same month as yours, so it's begun to feel like a time bomb now, but, what-will-be-will-be; I'm not going to ditch the car over a set of injectors, especially if a solution has evidently been engineered now. A recall would be nice to see but I'm not holding my breath, knowing that very high costs would be involved. Strange how cars a couple of years older can be still going strong if the issue really is susceptibility to corrosion in the design rather than manufacturing variances. True that mileage varies, but even low mileage cars like mine are sitting with fuel inside those injectors the whole time.

[trashman1965]

Agreed...it makes no sense unless they changed production to a different one and changed again due to corrosion.

I wondered about low mileage but @taxidriver50005 is a high user and others are high users. If it was low mileage cars always run on E10 it would make more sense.

Having had mine fixed, I realised just how nice the car is to drive and how the crappy behaviour loss of performance and MPG really was.

If you have warranty then it's worth pursuing and hopefully you'll have quicker results than me.

[TonyHSD]

It is the fuel quality in uk. 
For those who believe that in England everything is perfect  and up to the standard and BS certified, think again. 
Not everything in the real life matches how should be on paper. 
And here is the problem.
It doesn’t matter if you fill up E5 or E10 , premium, or not , Shell or bp or esso or texaco or Tesco or Asda, the general risk is always here and it is a human error or misconduct on purpose to save money and increase profits while car owners can suffer high repair bills. 
No petrol is the same between two garages as end product in your tank even though it may come from the same chain petrol stations, same refinery, same spec fuel, same price, same location. The petrol is stored in different tanks underground, this is where the things start to get downhill and eventually when the fuel been delivered and how much and what additives been added, if any at all. Usually the cheapest fuels lack vital additives and can cause corrosion, pre ignition, misfire and list goes on. 
I had learned my lesson to make a note from which garage the car deliver smoother drive, quieter engine and greater efficiency so I tend to fill up there, because so many times when I filled up at unknown places and my car straggle to drive and sounds bad afterwards.
In USA these cars like yours are so popular and over there the Ron numbers are even lower in general but no engine problems. But in Europe and uk bam , these cars gets burst engines.
 

So imo every 2.0 hybrid has the risk of having an injectors issues just because the fuels aren’t up to the standard. Owners can only add their own additives to each fill up to guaranteed there are antioxidants and friction modifiers in the fuel and buy petrol from busy garages preferably bp with M&S , Shell with Waitrose, esso with Tesco it’s ok. 
Avoid - Morrison , Asda, Sainsbury’s , and those small garages with unknown names and cheap prices. 

[trashman1965]

And yet I always filled with V-power, OH always fills with Sainsbury's and she has not had issues not have many others. I only see this UK site discussing on the corolla forum. Anecdotally seen it's an issue with any engine/model, but I've not seen them.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying about fuels, but if it was primarily a fuel issue and not part/material/design we'd expect to see it across the other forums.

[Red_Corolla]

I always thought that it was the US where the fuel quality was poorer with respect to Europe because they still offer lower tiers instead of just 'premium,' a bit like the old days before unleaded when we had the choice of 2, 3 or 4 star. Was I mistaken in this belief?

BTW, US octane ratings cannot be directly compared to EU because they use different units of measurement (US is MON and EU is RON). As a rough rule of thumb, subtract 8 from the RON to get the equivalent US rating.

[Cip Culea]

On 9/6/2024 at 4:27 PM, Cip Culea said:

I didn’t really noticed. I’ll check. I have an appointment with Toyota garage next Thursday. 

Back with an answer. Well, not much of an aswer as the problem it’s still here…the Toyota’s dealership said they found signs of chlorine and corosion in the egr valve due to the cheap fuel, not being under the manufacturer warranty. Cost of the part+labor £670. Now I’m back find a solution with the dealer I’ve bought the car. 
 

PS: sorry if my English it’s not the best, not my tongue language. 

[trashman1965]

FYI they took my EGR apart and found "signs of corrosion" but didn't believe that was the issue. They only started looking at injectors when I asked if they had checked.

Chlorine was an issue in Italy, but not aware of that being an issue in the UK.

If as I recall this was an issue from when you got the car, take it back and reject it. Assuming from your post it wasn't a Toyota dealer so history could be unknown. Don't try and pursue this as you will just end up with ever growing bills and problems.

[Cip Culea]

35 minutes ago, trashman1965 said:

FYI they took my EGR apart and found "signs of corrosion" but didn't believe that was the issue. They only started looking at injectors when I asked if they had checked.

Chlorine was an issue in Italy, but not aware of that being an issue in the UK.

If as I recall this was an issue from when you got the car, take it back and reject it. Assuming from your post it wasn't a Toyota dealer so history could be unknown. Don't try and pursue this as you will just end up with ever growing bills and problems.

Yeah, the car wasn’t bought from Toyota, was from a Suzuki, Honda, Renault dealership but with full service history from toyota. I’m pretty sure they won’t accept taking the car back and just transfer me back my £20.500…

The After sales manager was supposed to call me today at noon, obviously nobody rang so I did, he was in a meeting in another location…🤷🏻‍♂️

33 minutes ago, trashman1965 said:

FYI they took my EGR apart and found "signs of corrosion" but didn't believe that was the issue. They only started looking at injectors when I asked if they had checked.

Chlorine was an issue in Italy, but not aware of that being an issue in the UK.

If as I recall this was an issue from when you got the car, take it back and reject it. Assuming from your post it wasn't a Toyota dealer so history could be unknown. Don't try and pursue this as you will just end up with ever growing bills and problems.

On 9/6/2024 at 4:27 PM, Cip Culea said:

I didn’t really noticed. I’ll check. I have an appointment with Toyota garage next Thursday. 

Back with an answer. Well, not much of an aswer as the problem it’s still here…the Toyota’s dealership said they found signs of chlorine and corosion in the egr valve due to the cheap fuel, not being under the manufacturer warranty. Cost of the part+labor £670. Now I’m back find a solution with the dealer I’ve bought the car. 
 

PS: sorry if my English it’s not the best, not my tongue language. 

[SV1991]

On 9/6/2024 at 4:16 PM, trashman1965 said:

Does this happen only at certain engine rpm? And if you notice it at around 2000 rpm when driving does it go away if you increase revs?

So around 1900 - 2000 rpm regardless the speed, I can hear the engine, it’s like a deep vibration and the engine is noisier as soon as I go higher in the rpm the noise disappears. Is this what you experienced before changing the injectors? That is really anything I can feel different, definitely the engine doesn’t sound like in the video posted earlier.

[TonyHSD]

18 minutes ago, SV1991 said:

So around 1900 - 2000 rpm regardless the speed, I can hear the engine, it’s like a deep vibration and the engine is noisier as soon as I go higher in the rpm the noise disappears. Is this what you experienced before changing the injectors? That is really anything I can feel different, definitely the engine doesn’t sound like in the video posted earlier.

When you have engine misfire while in motion you will not here these knocking noise similar to the video I have shared. It’s more like vibrations. If your car does seems strange at those 2000 rpm best to try another car with the same engine and drive similarly to try to notice of the other car will feel the same at 2000rpm. 
Sometimes some rough engine work can be a normal and it’s because of extra load from the mg1 to generate electricity for the Battery.