Charge RAV4 phev at 45 kWh?

[HSDish]

Is it possible/recomendable to charge an RAV4 phev at 45 kWh charger with type 2 contact?

i know the car cant charge more/faster than 6.6 kWh but i know some public 45 kWh chargers with nice price per kW ( not more expensiv than standard public 7,5 - 11 - 22 kWh chargers.

[Strangely Brown]

16 minutes ago, HSDish said:

Is it possible/recomendable to charge an RAV4 phev at 45 kWh charger with type 2 contact?

i know the car cant charge more/faster than 6.6 kWh...

Have you not already answered your own question?

I suspect it may be possible to connect it but the car will/should limit charging speed to it's own capabilities.

[HSDish]

25 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Have you not already answered your own question?

Sorry. 

My bad.

I ask cause at some places where I use to stop and eat  , there is just 45 kWh chargers, at the lowest. 

Do You think charging at 45 kWh will damage the car ? 

[Rav Rob]

35 minutes ago, HSDish said:

Sorry. 

My bad.

I ask cause at some places where I use to stop and eat  , there is just 45 kWh chargers, at the lowest. 

Do You think charging at 45 kWh will damage the car ? 

Your car won't charge at 45kW even if the charger can do that. There is automatic  communication in the charging connection where the vehicle tells the charger what it can take and the charger adjusts itself to a lower output if needed.

[Strangely Brown]

32 minutes ago, HSDish said:

Do You think charging at 45 kWh will damage the car ? 

AIUI, the car pulls from the charger. The charger does not push to the car. The amount of current that the car can draw is (or should be) limited by it's own onboard facilities.

Again AIUI, a 45kW charger can supply a maximum of 45kW. If one car is using it and can take 45kW then that is what it should supply. If two cars are using then they will get a maximum of half each. If the car cannot take 45kW then it will take the maximum that it can accept and the charger has capacity for.

This is why many EV owners complain that charging takes too long at busy stations. As much as it is possible, try to be the only person using any given charger.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, HSDish said:

Is it possible/recomendable to charge an RAV4 phev at 45 kWh charger with type 2 contact?

No - anything over 22kW will be a DC charger. The PHEV does not support DC charging - it's AC only. (Unless I've completely mislaid my marbles 😉 )

[HSDish]

5 minutes ago, philip42h said:

No - anything over 22kW will be a DC charger. The PHEV does not support DC charging - it's AC only. (Unless I've completely mislaid my marbles 😉 )

Even when the cable/contact on the charger is type 2 ?

[HSDish]

Thanks to all contriburos abowe.

I ll try to take a pic of the charger station 

[Mike2222]

Like @philip42h, I believe you have probably misread/misinterpreted the 45kw charger unit, and you are looking at a DC unit. 22kw is usually rhe maximum for a AC supply, and the on board inverter-charger unit converts this to DC for the Battery (all vehicle batteries store electricity as DC - before any engineers pile in, I know this is not the correct verb/syntax, but it gets the point across).

 

I suspect you are looking at a CCS connector, which looks very similar to a type 2 plug/port, but has two large connectors underneath the type 2 looking bit, for the positive and negative DC terminals? 

[Mike2222]

For context, AC supply in UK needs to work off 240v, so in order for there to be a type 2 45kw charger, you'd need either a ~200A breaker, or on triple phase 3x 70A breakers, and I don't know that these exist...?

[philip42h]

9 minutes ago, HSDish said:

Even when the cable/contact on the charger is type 2 ?

OK, yes, maybe ... 🙂

I Googled a bit and found some schizophrenic devices that support both AC and DC (up to 45kW). The Type 2 AC is likely to be limited to 32A / 7kW at normal mains voltages and in which case would be perfectly safe and suitable to use.

[Mike2222]

In either case, whether you are attempting to plug in an AC charger cable, DC charger cable, strip it down and wire an exercise bike directly into the inverter, or hit it with a rock, the most and only way the Rav4 phev will ever charge is type 2 AC at 6.6kw, because that's what the charge-inverter unit is rated to. You may sometimes see a higher power draw on smart meter etc, but I believe anything additional will be power losses rather than overcharge. 

 

Thus if we're all wrong and the unit is definitely labelled as type 2, the connectors fit and activate a charge that successfully commences, then you should be safe in the knowledge that the car/battery should not be damaged by the charger having a high rating, as the on-board inverter will only ever work at 6.6kw

[HSDish]

15 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

Like @philip42h, I believe you have probably misread/misinterpreted the 45kw charger unit, and you are looking at a DC unit. 22kw is usually rhe maximum for a AC supply, and the on board inverter-charger unit converts this to DC for the battery (all vehicle batteries store electricity as DC - before any engineers pile in, I know this is not the correct verb/syntax, but it gets the point across).

 

I suspect you are looking at a CCS connector, which looks very similar to a type 2 plug/port, but has two large connectors underneath the type 2 looking bit, for the positive and negative DC terminals? 

I have probably been misstaken. 

Maybe CCS connector.

I ll ry to take a pic 

[HSDish]

Chargefinder app looks like this

[HSDish]

As I can understand it seems to be 44 kW from type 2 connector

 

[philip42h]

Well, we live and learn ...

Domestically, we are mostly limited to 7.4kW single phase chargers = 32A @ 230V. The lucky few who have a three phase supply can go up to 22kW = 3x 32A @ 230V.

But looking a little wider I can find 44kW chargers configured as 2x 22kW; 44kW chargers configured as a single 44kW supply; and 88kW chargers configured as a dual 44kw supply. A 44kW charger is, presumably, a three phase charger operating as 3x 63A - which implies pretty thick cables!

They are probably intended for commercial vehicles - or at least ones with a greater than 22kW OBC - but either way, as long as it's Type 2 @ 230V there's no reason why you shouldn't use one.

[Mike2222]

Well bu88er me... 

[GBgraham]

9 hours ago, philip42h said:

Well, we live and learn ...

Domestically, we are mostly limited to 7.4kW single phase chargers = 32A @ 230V. The lucky few who have a three phase supply can go up to 22kW = 3x 32A @ 230V.

But looking a little wider I can find 44kW chargers configured as 2x 22kW; 44kW chargers configured as a single 44kW supply; and 88kW chargers configured as a dual 44kw supply. A 44kW charger is, presumably, a three phase charger operating as 3x 63A - which implies pretty thick cables!

They are probably intended for commercial vehicles - or at least ones with a greater than 22kW OBC - but either way, as long as it's Type 2 @ 230V there's no reason why you shouldn't use one.

You're losing me here Philip because I aren't sure how this relates to the RAV4 surely it has a 7.4kW limit regardless of single or three phase so I can't see how the other figures are relevant, if I've got your reason wrong I apologise but three phase would not be 3 x 63A? So if you have supply at 415v 7.4kW on a simple equation would be 7400/415 is 17.8amps per phase, MCB's@20A

[philip42h]

41 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

You're losing me here Philip because I aren't sure how this relates to the RAV4 surely it has a 7.4kW limit regardless of single or three phase so I can't see how the other figures are relevant, if I've got your reason wrong I apologise but three phase would not be 3 x 63A? So if you have supply at 415v 7.4kW on a simple equation would be 7400/415 is 17.8amps per phase, MCB's@20A

Ah, yes, well, no ... this "living and learning" thing is fun isn't it - I just hope I don't misdirect / confuse too many folk along the way ... 😉

First, you are entirely correct - the PHEV has a single phase 6.6kW OBC that requires an input voltage of 230V (nominal) so will actually draw something around 28A. It doesn't matter how much power the external charger is capable of delivery that's all the PHEV can take.

A single-phase power supply consists of two wires - a live and a neutral with 230V between them.

A three-phase power supply consists of four wires - three lives and a neutral. Apparently - I looked this up this morning - there is a potential of 230V between each of the lives and the neutral (so, logically, three single phase power supplies) and a potential of 400V between each of the lives. See here for details.

An EV with a three phase OBC can accept up to 22kW. As I understand, today, this is achieved using the 230V potential between each of the three lives and the neutral delivering 32A each - i.e. 3x 7.4kW = 22kW (nominally). The 400V potential is not applied here but reserved / used in other industrial designs. There again, I may learn something new tomorrow.

[GBgraham]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

Ah, yes, well, no ... this "living and learning" thing is fun isn't it - I just hope I don't misdirect / confuse too many folk along the way ... 😉

First, you are entirely correct - the PHEV has a single phase 6.6kW OBC that requires an input voltage of 230V (nominal) so will actually draw something around 28A. It doesn't matter how much power the external charger is capable of delivery that's all the PHEV can take.

A single-phase power supply consists of two wires - a live and a neutral with 230V between them.

A three-phase power supply consists of four wires - three lives and a neutral. Apparently - I looked this up this morning - there is a potential of 230V between each of the lives and the neutral (so, logically, three single phase power supplies) and a potential of 400V between each of the lives. See here for details.

An EV with a three phase OBC can accept up to 22kW. As I understand, today, this is achieved using the 230V potential between each of the three lives and the neutral delivering 32A each - i.e. 3x 7.4kW = 22kW (nominally). The 400V potential is not applied here but reserved / used in other industrial designs. There again, I may learn something new tomorrow.

A bit more fun for you😉

As far as I'm aware the neutral is just used for electronic control purposes, the actual power is 415v using all 3 phase's alone. If you take Ohms Law . . . Ohm's law states that the voltage across a conductor is directly proportional to the current flowing through it, provided all physical conditions and temperatures remain constant. So taking this statement if the neutral was used as a power conductor proportionally it would have to carry all load of the three phase's and the stress would be dire.

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, GBgraham said:

if the neutral was used as a power conductor proportionally it would have to carry all load of the three phase's and the stress would be dire.

The phasing comes into play here. The 'return currents' for each of the three phases in a balanced system cancel out - they are out of phase - so the net current flowing through the neutral is zero ...