It's here... 2024 GRS PHEV vs 2021 Dynamic Prem PHEV

[philip42h]

1 minute ago, Nick72 said:

Mine are Bridgestones. Photo above. I wonder why there are different tyres being supplied?

Simple Supply Chain Management - Toyota select multiple suppliers, share the load around and fit what is available on the day. Nothing more significant than Yen ...

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, RAV4GRS said:

Exactly the same as my experience (14 months on a RAV4 GRS PHEV in Belgium)!

As for steering effort, yes, it is also due to the GR Sport tuning (from what someone in Toyota Europe told me, even though they only speak about suspension changes in the press materials, the steering was also tuned) and it is very noticeable vs a standard PHEV that I test drove for 1 day too, but obviously you had much longer experience and it is amazing that you felt it so much. And I agree "more nimble" is the right description. As for your slight negative on ride comfort, I have to say that I have been twice in the UK with the car and indeed the ride comfort "worse" than in the continent... 

I hope you enjoy it as much as me! 

Thanks, I didn't know that. Super helpful. Makes sense they've done something to the steering. Previous model felt heavier on the steering wheel and slightly disconnected and sloppy. Not much but enough to notice. So it's probably that and the suspension making it feel more nimble than the last model. It does seem like a more engaging drive so perhaps the marketing wasn't all b.s., which is good. 

[Nick72]

10 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Seriously? The ICE in a hybrid doesn't need any running in at all. The OM states:

So, the tyres and brakes need "running in" in the usual way. And it's probably a good idea not to overstress the transmission by pulling anything too heavy. After that we are managed by the speed limits anyway (and 70 mph isn't an "extremely high speed") and all the rest is managed by the eCVT. You'd really have to "try hard" to break it! 😉

I'm still going to avoid hard acceleration for the benefit of the ICE for a while. Warp core will not be activated for a while. 

[MC1216]

10 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Mine are Bridgestones. Photo above. I wonder why there are different tyres being supplied?

Most car companies use at least 2 different supply chains for tyres in case of supply issues.

I know VW use 3

[philip42h]

3 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Thanks, I didn't know that. Super helpful. Makes sense they've done something to the steering. Previous model felt heavier on the steering wheel and slightly disconnected and sloppy.

On the 4.4, the steering 'weight' changed when you switched from Eco to Normal to Sport - it's just a computer controlled electric pump. In Eco it was very light with no feel - which is why I didn't use Eco; Normal was just fine; and Sport felt, well, sporty! You'd rather hope that they'd do something like that for a GR Sport ...

[Nick72]

6 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Simple Supply Chain Management - Toyota select multiple suppliers, share the load around and fit what is available on the day. Nothing more significant than Yen ...

Which I understand but still find really bizarre. 

Put this way...

The are marketing a GRS R4P. Marketing talks about a more engaging drive and tuning. Suspension much better, steering is pin sharp. Clearly noticeable and better than my last one. And yet, takeoff, cornering, stopping distance and general road grip is largely a function of tyres which are now from random suppliers?

Doesn't seem to fit the marketing and effort from a GRS perspective.

That said, what they should have done to complete the package is put decent tyres on in the first place. It's why I'll be switching to CC2s soon. Better in all road conditions. I mean, it's a 50k car, so I'm not sure an extra 300 quid is going to make a difference to buyers. 

Opinion only obviously.

[philip42h]

6 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

I'm still going to avoid hard acceleration for the benefit of the ICE for a while. Warp core will not be activated for a while. 

That's only sensible ...

The breaking in instructions for an ICE-free bZ4X are idenitical bar the suggestion that you "Do not drive continuously in low gears". 😉

[Nick72]

4 minutes ago, philip42h said:

On the 4.4, the steering 'weight' changed when you switched from Eco to Normal to Sport - it's just a computer controlled electric pump. In Eco it was very light with no feel - which is why I didn't use Eco; Normal was just fine; and Sport felt, well, sporty! You'd rather hope that they'd do something like that for a GR Sport ...

It's still the same as far as I can tell from a mode switching perspective but in all modes the steering is much sharper, lighter, less sloppy, more engaged with the road. I'm 100% convinced of this after 3 years driving of the last car. 

[Nick72]

One thing I realised I should have ordered but wasn't on the order form was the mud flaps and tailgate protection plate. This used to be called the protection pack and also came with rubber mats throughout. 

[NASY]

Great to read Nick - happy to hear the improvements are to your liking. I recently toyed with the idea of changing my car and conclude that I'll wait until the next generation of RAV comes out. Your write up confirms that there is nothing but marginal change thus far. I do hope that Toyota avoid the harsh suspension in search of marginal handling gains at the sacrifice of comfort in the next generation RAV, certainly the Prius and CHR have gained that harshness.

[Nick72]

2 minutes ago, NASY said:

Great to read Nick - happy to hear the improvements are to your liking. I recently toyed with the idea of changing my car and conclude that I'll wait until the next generation of RAV comes out. Your write up confirms that there is nothing but marginal change thus far. I do hope that Toyota avoid the harsh suspension in search of marginal handling gains at the sacrifice of comfort in the next generation RAV, certainly the Prius and CHR have gained that harshness.

Thanks matey. I prefer the better handling at a small ride quality price to pay but not anymore than it is now on the GRS. Will be interesting to see which direction Toyota go and whether there is a GRS version at the start on the range or in outer years.

[Nick72]

Question then for existing GRS owners...

I can't get the rear doors to unlock and lock by the door handles as part of keyless entry.

@erniebmentioned it might need enabling on the App or MyT portal. Can't find it on the App or in the car on the settings. Don't have the full range of portal options available as I don't own the car (company car) so can't fill in the V5 registration details below.

Is there anything extra that you get access to in the MyT web portal? I am wondering if I can be bothered bothering our company lease people to sort it. 

Here's the option... Photo. Bottom one. 

[Bozz]

On 9/10/2024 at 8:15 PM, Nick72 said:

Unsure if and how this may help anyone but have had a few requests for comparisons. Really long post so check out early if it is not of interest. 

Company car driver of the RAV4 PHEV Dynamic Premium 2021 for 3 years, now swapped to a new 2024 GR Sport PHEV bitone pan roof. Only a couple of days in but it's enough to write this.

Some folks will be just curious. Some folks may be weighing up whether they trade up. Some folks wondering if a second hand R4P is a better bet than the 2024. Some folks like I was may be wondering what's next after their lease is up on the R4P? Probably a few other scenarios.

Hope it's useful.


Scores... 2024 GRS bitone first then 2021 Dynamic Premium. Both PHEVs.

Appearance 9 (GRS) v 8.5 (2021 DP)
Always loved the aggressive look of the car. The small tweaks and new black alloys just give the appearance a very slight edge. Personal taste of course. Gone from Dacuma Grey bitone where the silver alloys looked great to a Pearl White bitone with black alloys which looks great in a storm trooper way.

Ride and Handling
Ride Comfort 7.5 v 8
There's a slightly harder ride and it is noticeable on the potholed B roads. I think the seats may have helped close some of that gap as it's only felt as slightly worse.
Handling 8.5 v 7
Handling was already better than many SUVs but... Pitch n dive mostly gone. Body roll, much reduced. Significant improvement and now more closely aligned to the 306hp power and acceleration of the car. It wasn't bad before btw as I say but now it's closer to my preference at a slight ride comfort sacrifice. It's too early to say with conviction but hard cornering has a very very slight skipping or jitter at the rear as my AMG Merc used to do but in spades. Tyres will be a major part of that at the end of the day.

Seats
Comfort 8.5 v 8
The seats were already comfortable for many a 5 hour drive. They are more comfortable now and feel slightly more substantial in terms of support and cushioning.
Body holding 8 v 7.5
Seats offer slightly more body grip through materials and shaping than the old seats. Only mildly worthwhile mind.
Features 7 v 8.5
Big loss to not have the cooling function. It was a godsend in high summer. You're sweating like a pig in a poke, and the seats are baking when you get into the car. In seconds you are sitting on a shelf in a fridge and turning into a Mr Freeze ice pop. Really miss this. Also, there's now only two temperature settings for the heated seat function. High and low. Lukewarm or scorchio. Overall I prefer the old seats but only just.

Infotainment Display 9 v 6.5
The resolution makes a huge difference as does the extra size. It feels huge. The YouTube videos don't really do it justice. The display also pops the colours out nicely and is clearly readable even in bright daylight. Makes a huge difference to Android Auto. Now I can use the AA panel view and still read the directions and map easily. Enabling satellite view in Gmaps looks gorgeous. I never use close to the 40GB or whatever my mobile data allowance is so I'll see how I get on using satellite view. But I'll probably end up switching it off because I'm overcomplicating navigation for aesthetics! Lovely touch responsive fast display system. It's 2024 Toyota people, not 2008. One downside and reason it didn't score higher is the icons in AA are sooo much smaller for my wobbly arms and finger podge.

Satnav 8 v 5
Old satnav was just about useful as a last resort plan b. It was like something from the late 1990s. Now I can see myself using the new one as well as Google Maps and Waze via AA for some trips. It's clear, nice colours, fast, smooth, and can do 3D, jams are showing up. Shows up on the driver display and the HUD apparently but I'm yet to try this properly. Mind you, it's still not as good as the Tom Tom 3D I had on the Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4 GT 300. That scored 10 (shown across 2 screens - big picture plan view, 3D local view). Lovely. Shame about the Pug drive train, leaking roof, constant failures etc. 😂


Drivers Display 8.5 v 7.5
It's the configurability of the display that scores the points. The old mechanical plus digital was weird at first but worked. There were always a couple of things I wanted to see all the time especially when off road and not having to scroll through and back again. Not game changing but it is now into the 2020s at least. I've configured the 3 quick flip profiles for general, motorway cruise, off-road. For example, off road I want to see AWD traction, tyre pressures so I can work out what's going on. Compass on the HUD... but so far I've not managed to get that working despite it being set in the HUD settings to show compass. Instead I'm getting the lane thingy.  Any ideas? One added surprise bonus is during AA navigation. Gmaps or Waze. You get slightly more elaborated information on next turn in the drivers display which is also larger than before.

Reversing Camera Quality 8 v 5
Previous rear view camera was worse than my mum's 20 year old Nissan people carrier. It was like VHS on long play in the fog and the tracking was out. And poor night vision that I had to boost with an extra bright reversing light LED replacement. The reversing camera quality is now leagues ahead and current with many 40k plus cars and their cameras. Good detail, good night vision. Still, it's not quite as pin sharp as it was on my Merc over 7 years ago.

Stereo and Speakers 6.5 v 6.5
Previous JBL was just about average and I was utterly dreading something noticeably worse. But no. It sounds just as good as the JBL but it took me a while fiddling with the settings to get it that way. Initial settings were horrific. No bass, no highs, and all coming from the dash speakers. It sounded like a 1990s car stereo on a vauxhall nova. Now, after fiddling, I couldn't tell the difference. Note, I'm not playing drum n bass. Anytime soon. Probably never. This result has been my biggest surprise. It's as good, or I should say, it's just as average as the JBL.

Driving & Safety Features incl. LTA 8 v 7.5
Feels like a small upgrade including some of the new anti collision features. Pedestrians and cyclists at the front? LTA is actually useful rather than an aid to staying awake. Or does that make it less useful if you're not concentrating 100% waiting for the LTA to go horribly wrong?

Start-up Speed and Faff Factor 5.5 v 6.5
It was slow to start and go already. But now you've got to disable the speed warning as an extra chore, although that's optional. That said, everything does start up a couple of seconds quicker including the Infotainment and drive drain. I've tried to get the hybrid drive train not available (or whatever it says) error by being too eager a few times but I've not had the message yet. Still I've not done more than 50 miles and 10 or 12 trips.

Equipment and Features 8.5 v 7
Pan View Monitor
Heated Steering Wheel
Paddle Shifters
Pan View monitor is exceptional. No more messing with mirrors or opening the doors to check curb and parking lines etc. Heated steering wheel is a little meh for me. I wear touchscreen compatible driving gloves in winter and often condition the car whilst it's still plugged into the wall box in mid winter on a schedule. Paddle Shifters may only be useful coming down a mountain to boost regen braking. A type of descent control or low gear.



Overall Scores for Comparative Criteria
GRS  110.5 out of 140 (78.9%)
2021 DP 99 out of 140 (70.7%)


It's about 8 percentage points better all things considered in my hookey cookie analysis and very wild opinions. But it feels like it is too. A minor but very welcome improvement. Many incremental changes rather than a revolution anywhere. Which is Toyota. Don't change too many variables by too much in the equation at the same time. Could have been better with the old cooled seats having a slight overall edge but there's no noticeable difference with the absence of the JBL stereo. Drum n bass not tested! Don't ask me to either. JBL will win.

Several additional unexpected bonuses not mentioned so far are: First thing is, and I punched the air like I'd won the world cup, is context volume control is implemented in AA. So when Waze or Gmaps is giving you directions you can change the voice volume independent of the radio or music. Just like it was on my Merc 7 years back. 😂 Second thing is the boot opens and closes much faster than before. 30 to 35% faster. See the American comparison video I posted. I've timed it too. You can also set boot opening height via the drivers display settings which I've done to avoid the near catastrophe on the multi story car park with low roof members. I know you could do this via the button on the boot BTW. Oh, and you now get to see the DCM signal strength and whether it's downloading and uploading (I think that's what the symbols mean on the top of the Infotainment display). Lastly, there's more in the MyT App. Push notifications if you left open; windows, moon roof, hood, trunk, etc. Apologies for the Americanisms. Force of habit talking to many US friends. And if it's unlocked. You can also remote lock, unlock, put hazards on or off. Useful.

So maybe I should say the GRS is really about 10% better overall than my previous 2021 Dynamic Premium. I definitely feel like I've had an upgrade but with enough comfortable familiarity through continuity of everything else, that simply just works well.

Question is, how much is that really worth? Would I trade up from the last model if I wasn't a company car driver? Probably not unless the trade cost me less than about 5k. I'd wait for the 5th version of the RAV to see if there's more significant improvements which would need to include, for me to be tempted, more tech and US market features, an even larger driver and infotainment display, more power at the rear wheels, >25% longer battery range, and a decent less drab interior. Oh and a moon roof that opens more than 8 inches. 30 inches would be really very nice.

Overall, very happy. Much more than I expected to be.

Next stop is swapping over the tyres to CC2s.

P.s. This will sound odd. The car drives differently. It feels lighter, more nimble, and the steering is much lighter. Suspension changes alone can't account for this. I checked the tyre pressures which are correct and as they were on the last one, and have loaded up all my gear too. It's definitely lighter on the steering but it feels like a slightly lighter car. I can't quite get my head round that as the car is presumably the same weight. Answers on a post card.

I've come from a 2021 Corolla to a 2024 RAV 4 PHEV Design and must admit there are some major plusses and minusses.

I've done less than 100 miles in the RAV and already miss the side proximity sensors on the Corolla and wish the Design had the 360 degree camera - that's maybe the only thing. I drove a GR Sport before ordering the DESIGN but didn't realise that the GRS came with differently tuned suspension too. The DESIGN suspension is OK but doesn't like big sudden undulations and seems a bit uncontrolled at times.

Hey Ho

The Rav 4 feels heavy but it is much quieter than the Corolla even on CC2's which I had put on the car before delivery. Amazingly refined tyre for such an aggressive tread pattern.

Boot storage is another issue. The Corolla ST had the transverse storage box, the side box and bag hooks all of which are lacking on the RAV 4 - amazing how useful those features are.

Annoying driver aids on the RAV some of which can be turned off but were off by default on the Corolla. Maybe I'll learn to live with them.

The RAV definitely seems built to a higher quality standard and the interior is a nicer place to be. 

As a driver I feel more remote from what's going on under the bonnet which is a bit sad. At least on the Corolla there was an analogue rev counter so it was obvious when the engine was running or working hard.

I guess we'll see how it goes.

 

B

[philip42h]

43 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Question then for existing GRS owners...

I can't get the rear doors to unlock and lock by the door handles as part of keyless entry.

@erniebmentioned it might need enabling on the App or MyT portal. Can't find it on the App or in the car on the settings. Don't have the full range of portal options available as I don't own the car (company car) so can't fill in the V5 registration details below.

Is there anything extra that you get access to in the MyT web portal? I am wondering if I can be bothered bothering our company lease people to sort it. 

Here's the option... Photo. Bottom one. 

As we well know, the App is useless. I can't access Vehicle Settings from the App.

For me, Vehicle Settings are accessible via the My Toyota website:

[Nick72]

One downside I discovered today with very bright sunlight is the driver's display was unreadable. Strong reflection. I checked the brightness but it was already set at max. Fortunately the HUD has the vehicle speed and was clearly readable. But this would be problem if it wasn't for the HUD.

[Nick72]

10 minutes ago, philip42h said:

As we well know, the App is useless. I can't access Vehicle Settings from the App.

For me, Vehicle Settings are accessible via the My Toyota website:

So the MyT app is different on the GRS. 

Many more features and so far has been pretty solid. Updates instantly. Door lock, unlock, hazards on or off, check status of all doors, windows, moon roof etc.

But there are no vehicle settings in the App for vehicle customisation. They are however listed on the Infotainment display. Just can't see anything for touch unlock on the rear doors. I mean, I can open all doors or lock them via touching the two front door handles. But I can't do that via the rear doors. I thought you could on the 2024. Or maybe I imagined it. 

 

 

[philip42h]

2 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

I can open all doors or lock them via touching the two front door handles. But I can't do that via the rear doors. I thought you could on the 2024. Or maybe I imagined it. 

Do the rear door handles have the three lines that you would touch to lock the doors? If they don't you can safely assume that the car doesn't have that feature.

The bZ4X that I test drove yesterday did and I could lock / unlock by any of the four doors ...

[Nick72]

14 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Do the rear door handles have the three lines that you would touch to lock the doors? If they don't you can safely assume that the car doesn't have that feature.

The bZ4X that I test drove yesterday did and I could lock / unlock by any of the four doors ...

I think the 3 lines are for locking rather than unlocking, which is done by grasping and then pulling on the handle. No the rear door handles don't have the 3 lines but I was hoping I could at least unlock the doors. 

[SR82]

I’ve currently got a Corolla GR, lock/unlock is the same according to our dealer for the Rav as what I have there - front two doors will lock and unlock only.

[SR82]

@Nick72 does the GR have the side proximity sensors as well? I’m aware of the 360 view but those side proximity sensors on my Corolla were mega useful!

Also, can you trigger the 360 view any time you like or just when reversing?

I’ll know more on Sunday when I pick mine up!

[Nick72]

1 minute ago, SR82 said:

@Nick72 does the GR have the side proximity sensors as well? I’m aware of the 360 view but those side proximity sensors on my Corolla were mega useful!

Also, can you trigger the 360 view any time you like or just when reversing?

I’ll know more on Sunday when I pick mine up!

GRS has rear cross traffic alert, blind spot warning (if that's what you mean?), front and rear parking sensors etc. 

Still figuring out Pan View. Here's what I know...

When you reverse the default setting is most of the screen is reversing camera but one section shows a plan view all round image. Super useful. You can change this as it is displaying.

When in Park, if you press the pan View button you get a zoom around the car ending in plan view. Handy if you just want to check what's around before driving off or if you want to check you are between the lines when you've rolled up at the parking slot.

When in Drive mode if you press Pan View button it does something else but I can't recall. This I think only operates up to a certain speed like 6 or 8 mph I think. Handy for navigating a tight spot.

There is a way to set it from the options when pan View is activated and in drive mode so that it automatically comes on at low speeds. At first I thought this was a great idea but someone pointed out that if you're navigating somewhere, following Gmaps, Waze, or inbuilt SatNav then you'll lose that screen for the panview temporarily. That might not be the greatest plan if you're wanting to know whether you're going right or left or which exit on the roundabout you're coming off at. Easy enough to press the pan View button instead only when you need it.

I've not messed about much with this TBH. Weekend experiments to come.

[SR82]

10 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

GRS has rear cross traffic alert, blind spot warning (if that's what you mean?), front and rear parking sensors etc. 

Still figuring out Pan View. Here's what I know...

When you reverse the default setting is most of the screen is reversing camera but one section shows a plan view all round image. Super useful. You can change this as it is displaying.

When in Park, if you press the pan View button you get a zoom around the car ending in plan view. Handy if you just want to check what's around before driving off or if you want to check you are between the lines when you've rolled up at the parking slot.

When in Drive mode if you press Pan View button it does something else but I can't recall. This I think only operates up to a certain speed like 6 or 8 mph I think. Handy for navigating a tight spot.

There is a way to set it from the options when pan View is activated and in drive mode so that it automatically comes on at low speeds. At first I thought this was a great idea but someone pointed out that if you're navigating somewhere, following Gmaps, Waze, or inbuilt SatNav then you'll lose that screen for the panview temporarily. That might not be the greatest plan if you're wanting to know whether you're going right or left or which exit on the roundabout you're coming off at. Easy enough to press the pan View button instead only when you need it.

I've not messed about much with this TBH. Weekend experiments to come.

It was the same as front/rear beepers - just for the sides. Might be negated with XTA/BSM!

Popped you a message too - did yours come with two cables? Type 2 to 3pin and a T2 to T2?

[Nick72]

1 minute ago, SR82 said:

It was the same as front/rear beepers - just for the sides. Might be negated with XTA/BSM!

Popped you a message too - did yours come with two cables? Type 2 to 3pin and a T2 to T2?

I think there's good coverage all around the car with sensors and cameras. No problem.

Just replied to the PM. Yes 2 cables. Type 2 and a granny charger. 

[Nick72]

44 minutes ago, SR82 said:

@Nick72 does the GR have the side proximity sensors as well? I’m aware of the 360 view but those side proximity sensors on my Corolla were mega useful!

Also, can you trigger the 360 view any time you like or just when reversing?

I’ll know more on Sunday when I pick mine up!

Good video on pan View

 

 

[ernieb]

@Nick72, just ordered CC2 SUV’s from Costco. 235/19 101v. £530 including fitting etc. (£78 off the normal Costco prices, fitting free + extra £30 off) seems to be the best deal I can find, on order fitting next Friday)