Toyota (ABB) Wall Charger

[Kopper Bopper]

Has anyone been having problems with their Toyota Wall Charger ? (ABB from Hive)

since its been installed had nothing but problems with it tried all different settings on car and within the App 

sometimes it will charge but most of the time its failing. So I'm left to either charge with the slow charger or go to a public one 20 miles away 

when you plug it in , it says its connected you authorise it over ride the delay timer and it wont charge at first we thought it was the car and its been in and checked out and no faults are shown up  

so we assume its a faulty charger ? but having said that i do remember the day it was installed as my car was in getting its recall update the installer had problems with it shown anything up on his tester he just put it down to the software still installing   

[Kopper Bopper]

So took it to public charger today and it charge fine 

so after shopping etc got home had 84% thought I would try the wall charger and it worked 

Toyota have asked Hive to come and check it out I've already had an email from Hive to please contact Toyota for help?

so I sent a snotty reply back to Hive saying if you checked it was Toyota that asked for the call out and not me!

now I've been told i will have to wait for the first available appointment??   it took 8 weeks for them to install it in the first place 

[Kopper Bopper]

UPDATE !

just had an email this afternoon from HIVE the earliest they have someone come and look at the charger is 3 weeks away on the 9th October 

baring in mind it took 7 weeks for them to install it and its never really worked from that day 

so anyone thinking of getting a charger from HIVE/BRITISH GAS stay well clear (Toyota's own wall charger made by ABB)  

[Mister Mike]

Sounds like I dodged a bullet there. I didn't go with the complimentary charger and installed a Zappi instead. It's supported by Octopus, which gives 7p per kWh overnight, and for more qualifying hours than most suppliers.

[MarkTheSpark]

On 9/16/2024 at 3:24 PM, Kopper Bopper said:

UPDATE !

just had an email this afternoon from HIVE the earliest they have someone come and look at the charger is 3 weeks away on the 9th October 

baring in mind it took 7 weeks for them to install it and its never really worked from that day 

so anyone thinking of getting a charger from HIVE/BRITISH GAS stay well clear (Toyota's own wall charger made by ABB)  

I took the Toyota wall charger offer a couple of weeks ago. I was warned at the dealership it could take 8 weeks. So will keep my fingers crossed!

BG did come back to me asking for more photos, but nothing since so I guess I'm now in a queue.

I picked up my car Monday and the Toyota sales guy asked me to provide feedback about BG as the dealers are aware that the install/process is not going as smooth as it should.

I'm with Octopus and they don't support smart scheduling with the ABB charger as it stands. Wish I had realised this earlier. So the Toyota in-car or app scheduling is the only option for me - (once Octopus sort out the smart meter readings!🙄)

[adidev]

8 hours ago, MarkTheSpark said:

I took the Toyota wall charger offer a couple of weeks ago. I was warned at the dealership it could take 8 weeks. So will keep my fingers crossed!

BG did come back to me asking for more photos, but nothing since so I guess I'm now in a queue.

I picked up my car Monday and the Toyota sales guy asked me to provide feedback about BG as the dealers are aware that the install/process is not going as smooth as it should.

I'm with Octopus and they don't support smart scheduling with the ABB charger as it stands. Wish I had realised this earlier. So the Toyota in-car or app scheduling is the only option for me - (once Octopus sort out the smart meter readings!🙄)

We ordered our car over three months ago and signed up for the Toyota charger at the same time. A couple of weeks before collecting the car, we had a message that I need to book an appointment. I was so excited and full of hopes that I'll get the charger before the car as a granny charging will be a very inconvenient option. When I call them, I found out that this is about a video call for further survey and it's scheduled mid October. I got the car now nearly two weeks and slowly changing with an extension lead plugged into kitchen. I can't believe that it's quicker to manufacture and ship a car from Japan than install a simple wall charger.

[forkingabout]

9 hours ago, MarkTheSpark said:

(once Octopus sort out the smart meter readings!🙄)

Good luck with that 👍

Missus joined Octopus in early 2022, they installed new smart meters that worked perfectly for around 6 months then the gas meter stopped sending data.

Octopus couldn't do a remote fix so an engineer was sent out who didn't fix the gas meter & also managed to stop the electric meter sending readings 🙄

During the period the meters wasn't sending data the missus was providing Octopus with monthly meter readings to generate the bill.

Eventually after multiple back & forth correspondence Octopus replaced both smart meters which after a lot of hassle getting them corrected to show on the account are currently working & sending data which can be seen when you log in to the account.

Now the issue is Octopus have sent out a meter reader twice ( 3 months interval between visits ) which stuffs up the smart meter readings & seems to generate 3 different bills for 1 month.

Missus has already had some compensation for all the inconvenience but all she really wants is the meter reader to stop turning up ( as the account then goes haywire generating multiple bills ) & one bill a month Octopus.

[Kopper Bopper]

7 hours ago, adidev said:

We ordered our car over three months ago and signed up for the Toyota charger at the same time. A couple of weeks before collecting the car, we had a message that I need to book an appointment. I was so excited and full of hopes that I'll get the charger before the car as a granny charging will be a very inconvenient option. When I call them, I found out that this is about a video call for further survey and it's scheduled mid October. I got the car now nearly two weeks and slowly changing with an extension lead plugged into kitchen. I can't believe that it's quicker to manufacture and ship a car from Japan than install a simple wall charger.

please if you can charge your vehicle at a public charge point 

its not the slow charger that im worried about but the fact you have it plugged into an extension lead this is a no no as it can over heat melt and cause a fire !

this is why the cable on the charger is thicker and it can handle the current if you can plug it straight into the wall it will be much better 

at the moment I'm having to do a round trip of 40 miles to charge the car  I'm lucky that I'm retired and have time to wait but not idea for the working person 

but i will say Toyota have been absolutely brilliant in all of this they have passed my charger unit serial number and have passed it onto their European counterparts and to British Gas to see what can be done in terms of finding a solution for my charging issues 

 

[adidev]

1 hour ago, Kopper Bopper said:

please if you can charge your vehicle at a public charge point 

I was told by the dealer that I'll be fine. The granny charger should not take more than 13A, and I set in the car, as a percussion, limit to 8A.

[wivenhoe]

Whilst I would never defend BG, over the last 9 years I’ve had 2 chargers installed - neither by BG. The guy that did the install last year said that he was experiencing in certain areas delays in getting approvals from the DNO (Distribution Network Operator). They ensure there is enough surplus supply to approve a charger being installed on the network and the installer must get their written approval. He said there are areas where the substations are at capacity and chargers wouldn’t be approved until upgrades had been installed.
 

He also said that since 2022 all chargers had to be ‘smart’ so that the supply could be regularised if the network got tight for capacity. The chargers also have to be capable of a randomised delay to starting in order to avoid a surge in demand. I understand it’s this that can cause problems with users thinking a charge is failing as it isn’t charging immediately on connection. There is a really informative article here - https://pod-point.com/guides/smart-charge-point-regulations

When they brought the ‘smart’ charger requirement in they cut the subsidy which he thought was because they wanted to slow requests for chargers. Some really joined up thinking by government - force manufacturers to sell EV’s by fining them but remove the subsidy on the chargers and recognise there is not enough capacity in the electric supply so enforce chargers that can be remotely throttled back or even stopped !

Apologies if this all a bit boring but I thought a lot of EV owners weren’t aware of this. 
 

[Kopper Bopper]

20 hours ago, adidev said:

I was told by the dealer that I'll be fine. The granny charger should not take more than 13A, and I set in the car, as a percussion, limit to 8A.

to be fair the dealer should not have told you that he's not an electrician !

 

Why You Shouldn’t Charge an EV With an Extension Cord

Is it safe to charge using an extension cord? Carmakers say no, and we don’t recommend using one. Charging an electric car requires more electricity than the amount common home appliances need. Therefore, electric car chargers contain thicker wires that can handle more power than smaller gauge wires in typical extension cords.

“While some electric car owners have reported using a typical extension cord, we don’t recommend it,” says Kelley Blue Book Executive Editor Brian Moody. “In fact, Kia and other automakers specifically say not to use an extension cord in the owner’s manual. An electric car pulls more power than a typical home appliance, and using a typical extension cord when charging can harm your home and car.”

Owner manuals are explicit with warnings, such as this one from Chevy to Bolt owners: “Do not use extension cords, multi-outlet power strips, splitters, grounding adaptors, surge protectors, or similar devices.”

A Level 1 cable offers a slower “trickle” charge and supplies a few miles of range per hour, which is suitable for many PHEV owners. Pairing an extension cord with the charger restricts the voltage transfer. This setup will take even longer to boost your Battery, in addition to creating safety concerns.

Dangers of Using an Extension Cord to Charge

So what happens if you charge with an extension cord? Since charging an electric vehicle draws a large amount of power, an extension cord may overheat if you connect it to the charging cable. The chance of fire increases because the extension cord attempts to transmit more energy than it was made to carry. Overheating cords can melt plugs and receptacles, and the fire danger is greater when left unattended overnight or while you’re not home.

Another safety risk is electric shock. An EV charging cable is more volatile when connected to an extension cord. Rerouting the power supply from your electrical outlet through an extension compromises the stability of this power transfer. Inserting and removing the plug then becomes a riskier task.

 

[philip42h]

5 hours ago, Kopper Bopper said:

Is it safe to charge using an extension cord?

I'm not an electrician either (but I do have an O level in physics). It can be perfectly safe to use the 'granny' charger via an extension cable, just as long as the extension cable is of good quality and designed to handle a constant current greater than the 10A drawn via the 'granny' charger. (So I'd be looking for one rated at 15A just to be on the safe side).

And, yes, if you don't know the rating of the extension cable, or it looks the slightest bit dodgy, don't use it! 😉

[Sportyneil]

I ordered my bZ4X Vision on 14 May this year with the dealer starting the process of ordering the charger the same day, and I took delivery of the car on 20 July. Yesterday was the long-awaited date of my charger install - and no-one turned up! I receive a very brief email from someone called Andy at EVRegionCPlanning@britishgas.co.uk apologising and saying it was down to 'engineer absence'.

People get sick, I understand that, but it would have been nice to get an update yesterday, and god only knows how long it will take to get a new appointment.

Starting to regret taking the 'freebie' charger. Seems to be a bit of an own-goal for Toyota to hand over to a company providing such poor service.

[MarkTheSpark]

55 minutes ago, Sportyneil said:

I ordered my bZ4X Vision on 14 May this year with the dealer starting the process of ordering the charger the same day, and I took delivery of the car on 20 July. Yesterday was the long-awaited date of my charger install - and no-one turned up! I receive a very brief email from someone called Andy at EVRegionCPlanning@britishgas.co.uk apologising and saying it was down to 'engineer absence'.

People get sick, I understand that, but it would have been nice to get an update yesterday, and god only knows how long it will take to get a new appointment.

Starting to regret taking the 'freebie' charger. Seems to be a bit of an own-goal for Toyota to hand over to a company providing such poor service.

Blimey that's most annoying and very poor service, especially if you had to arrange time off.

I have Hive (BG) heating at home. I noticed on my online account that if I want to buy a charger through them it will not let you, stating they are not taking orders at the moment as they cannot meet demand. 😬

The free charger install was a big incentive for me to go from hybrid to PHEV.

I don't know know about you, but my Toyota dealer has asked to me to keep them updated regarding how the process with BG is going.

[Sportyneil]

41 minutes ago, MarkTheSpark said:

Blimey that's most annoying and very poor service, especially if you had to arrange time off.

I have Hive (BG) heating at home. I noticed on my online account that if I want to buy a charger through them it will not let you, stating they are not taking orders at the moment as they cannot meet demand. 😬

The free charger install was a big incentive for me to go from hybrid to PHEV.

I don't know know about you, but my Toyota dealer has asked to me to keep them updated regarding how the process with BG is going.

I'm going in in a couple of weeks to get my second key (finally) so will make a point of feeding back to them.

[MarkTheSpark]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:34 PM, philip42h said:

I'm not an electrician either (but I do have an O level in physics). It can be perfectly safe to use the 'granny' charger via an extension cable, just as long as the extension cable is of good quality and designed to handle a constant current greater than the 10A drawn via the 'granny' charger. (So I'd be looking for one rated at 15A just to be on the safe side).

And, yes, if you don't know the rating of the extension cable, or it looks the slightest bit dodgy, don't use it! 😉

To want to add to what you have already stated:

Extension cords/cables made from PVC (which are the vast majority of household extensions) become stiff and, therefore, more brittle at low temperatures.

If the PVC cable is fixed (e.g. to a wall) and not required to be flexed, PVC is OK below freezing. However, close to freezing a PVC cable expected to be flexed will lose some of its electrical insulation properties as it creaks and cracks and it's not always obvious to see. This could be such that next time or the time after that it will not be so great at 10 or whatever amps. As insulation breaks down more heating occurs in the cable, which is where the fire risk comes in.

So charging using a flexible extension cord outside in low temperatures (winter) has extra risks.

Never use an extension cable coiled up on itself. A coiled cable heats up more and so has less current carrying capacity - always uncoil the cable.

You will notice EV granny charging cables are extra thick and very flexible. These are silicone rubber or similar insulated cables. This is deliberate. Silicone rubber is great for high temperature applications (high-current) but also remains flexible well below freezing.

[Kopper Bopper]

UPDATE

I've heard back from Toyota UK 

who have been in touch with their European Colleagues 

they have confirmed the issues I'm experiencing  with the drop in connectivity of my wall charger and car 

as a result they have advised and engineer is necessary to attend my property which is the 9th October not ideal as i had it installed in July and having to do a 40 mile round trip ton fast charge the car  

[Kopper Bopper]

British Gas / Hive / Toyota / ABB Wall Charger

Had the BG Engineer here this morning arrived 10am finished 13:15

changed the wall charger done in about 10-15 mins the rest of the time trying to update and connect via 4G and through Wifi 

was on the phone to his help desk for a good hour 

still not really convinced that its done the trick but will try it over the next few days etc and see how we get on  

[philip42h]

On 9/19/2024 at 9:23 PM, wivenhoe said:

Whilst I would never defend BG, over the last 9 years I’ve had 2 chargers installed - neither by BG. The guy that did the install last year said that he was experiencing in certain areas delays in getting approvals from the DNO (Distribution Network Operator). They ensure there is enough surplus supply to approve a charger being installed on the network and the installer must get their written approval. He said there are areas where the substations are at capacity and chargers wouldn’t be approved until upgrades had been installed.

He also said that since 2022 all chargers had to be ‘smart’ so that the supply could be regularised if the network got tight for capacity. The chargers also have to be capable of a randomised delay to starting in order to avoid a surge in demand. I understand it’s this that can cause problems with users thinking a charge is failing as it isn’t charging immediately on connection. There is a really informative article here - https://pod-point.com/guides/smart-charge-point-regulations

When they brought the ‘smart’ charger requirement in they cut the subsidy which he thought was because they wanted to slow requests for chargers. Some really joined up thinking by government - force manufacturers to sell EV’s by fining them but remove the subsidy on the chargers and recognise there is not enough capacity in the electric supply so enforce chargers that can be remotely throttled back or even stopped !

Apologies if this all a bit boring but I thought a lot of EV owners weren’t aware of this. 
 

A very useful post! Thank you. 🙂

I'm currently in the queue, waiting for hell to freeze over and Hive to respond to the photos that I've submitted at their request. I have no timescale for that response let alone an actual installation ... 😉

No matter. While waiting I've been doing my research and now have sufficient awareness to understand your post and the really useful article from PodPoint.

The bottom line is that by default a modern EV charger will decline to provide a charge (won't work) during peak hours - between 8:00 & 11:00 and 16:00 & 22:00. For most that won't be a significant issue and, for those for whom it is, the default behaviour can be overridden anyway.

But as a would be EV owner - my bZ4X is currently at the dealer's awaiting PDI etc. - I was wholly unaware of these factors until the last day or so!

[MarkTheSpark]

I'm a bit further down the road with the install process. For me BG has sub-contracted the video call, and possibly install, out to another EV charger company to speed things up a bit.

Out of interest they have told me on the video call that the Toyota charger (ABB OEM) does not support the DNO setting the charging period, so another box has to be mounted on the wall next to it to allow this. I was a bit perplexed at this but he said regulations now say all chargers have to be smart in the sense they are able to be controlled by the DNO.

A bit annoyed I'm going to have two widgets on the wall. Still wondering if should still get a podpoint.

🤔🫣

39 minutes ago, philip42h said:

A very useful post! Thank you. 🙂

I'm currently in the queue, waiting for hell to freeze over and Hive to respond to the photos that I've submitted at their request. I have no timescale for that response let alone an actual installation ... 😉

No matter. While waiting I've been doing my research and now have sufficient awareness to understand your post and the really useful article from PodPoint.

The bottom line is that by default a modern EV charger will decline to provide a charge (won't work) during peak hours - between 8:00 & 11:00 and 16:00 & 22:00. For most that won't be a significant issue and, for those for whom it is, the default behaviour can be overridden anyway.

But as a would be EV owner - my bZ4X is currently at the dealer's awaiting PDI etc. - I was wholly unaware of these factors until the last day or so!

 

[philip42h]

11 minutes ago, MarkTheSpark said:

I'm a bit further down the road with the install process. For me BG has sub-contracted the video call, and possibly install, out to another EV charger company to speed things up a bit.

Out of interest they have told me on the video call that the Toyota charger (ABB OEM) does not support the DNO setting the charging period, so another box has to be mounted on the wall next to it to allow this. I was a bit perplexed at this but he said regulations now say all chargers have to be smart in the sense they are able to be controlled by the DNO.

A bit annoyed I'm going to have two widgets on the wall. Still wondering if should still get a podpoint.

🤔🫣

I think I'm expecting them to subcontract out the rest of the process too ...

But the next bit doesn't quite ring true to me. The charging period piece is built into the ABB Terra box and controllable via the My Toyota app according to the guide issue / hidden by Toyota:toyota-homecharge-guide-june-2024.pdf (Onboarding, step 9)

There is additionally discussion of "Demand side response services" in the PodPoint article:

1. Demand side response services - chargepoints must be able to defer charging/vary its rate in response to external signals. This will allow energy firms to offer additional services, such as variable rate electricity pricing when demand is lower or renewable energy supply is higher.

and discussion of interoperability between suppliers so we might hope for a firmware update that allows all modern chargers to take best advantage of all suppliers' tariffs - but I not going to hold my breath.

But nothing about being "able to be controlled by the DNO" - that feels like a requirement added by the DNO to me ... 😕

 

 

[philip42h]

There's nothing in the regulations that allows a smart charger to be controlled by the DNO: The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

There is a not unreasonable requirement that the EV charging system as a whole doesn't take the demand on the electricity supply beyond the capacity of the DNO supplied main fuse - which might introduce the requirement for a load management device aka another box or boxes on the wall that can measure the total current drawn and reduce the supply to the charger as necessary.

And that's my 'fear' - I have a label marked "80A fuse" on a box marked 100A feeding four consumer units across the property. I have extended Internet connectivity to the detached garage for the EV charger and I'm comfortable that the consumer unit in the garage and it's connecting cable is OK, but I've no idea how they'll manage load balancing if the DNO decides that is required!

[Sportyneil]

On 9/24/2024 at 12:32 PM, Sportyneil said:

I'm going in in a couple of weeks to get my second key (finally) so will make a point of feeding back to them.

So I took my car in to the dealer last Monday (7 Oct) to get the second key sorted and while I was there I spoke to them about the problems I was having getting the free charger installed. Hopefully this has done the trick as my new install date is this Friday (18 Oct) arranged personally by the British Gas regional EV planner. I'll let you know how I get on. Hopefully they'll at least turn up this time!

[adidev]

Just finished a video call with installers subbed by BG/Hive and shortly after I had another call to say they cannot install the charger as it's too far (read inconvenient for them) to install. Before we decided to buy bZ, we had a few local installers that were happy to do the job by similar price. We only didn't go as Toyota promised the charger "for free" as a package with the car. Now, with winter around the corner, we still don't have a charger, almost 4 months since the order. The garage has promised to resolve this problem. The most annoying thing is that the Hive had my photos and even Google Maps with marked location of the fuse box and charger location since the beginning of July. They should flag this at the start. I spent money for a special, thick cable extension lead and carry on charging like that. So far, I feel like something in the middle - Toyota has nothing to do with the installation, but will talk to Hive, Hive passed the job to someone else who just refused, and now I'm back to Toyota. I'm hoping to get some resolution soon.

[philip42h]

12 minutes ago, adidev said:

they cannot install the charger as it's too far (read inconvenient for them) to install

Can you clarify? Do you mean that the distance between the consumer unit and the planned site of the charger is "too far"?

As I understand, the basic deal is to install the charger using no more than 10m of cable - and that's what we should get for free / paid by Toyota GB. If it requires more that 10m of cable, then the difference is chargeable to us. Or maybe you mean something entirely different ... ?

But to your point, the world would be a better place if we could get a survey and commitment to install before we get committed to purchase an EV ... any EV. We don't want, and shouldn't need, to be pioneers any longer! 😉