Hybrid >2020 gen4 : ev capabilities

[haelewyn]

Hi, 

Could anybody tell me how far a modern 115 hp, 3 cyl, gen 4 yaris, made from 2020 onwards, would get on just ev mode.

Until what speed can this car drive in  ev mode ? Highway speeds too ?

Any info welcome on this specific engine. I think I read somewhere the batteries charge faster than before from normal driving ?

[Cyker]

Before I answer, I must remind everyone that Hybrids ARE NOT EVs - They are not designed to drive in 'EV' mode and you will be very disappointed if you try to drive them in such a fashion.

Now, in answer to the two questions (And these are the absolute wrong questions to ask about them as they will tell you nothing of usefulness), I'd say 0.3 miles on a flat at 30mph, and 79mph going down a hill, and these are mutually exclusive.

My advice is forget it even has a Battery and just treat it as an incomprehensibly efficient petrol car with the best automatic gearbox and coasting ability in the world.

 

[CPN]

100% @Cyker

[MikeSh]

How far it can go in EV is a distraction. With self-charging hybrids the only thing that really matters is how much of the braking energy you can put back into the Battery to save petrol down the line. 

That partly or largely depends on how you drive, and specifically brake. Every time you push into the friction brakes you are throwing energy into the air.

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, haelewyn said:

how far a modern 115 hp, 3 cyl, gen 4 yaris, made from 2020 onwards, would get on just ev mode.

And to answer that ... It depends on how much you've put into the Battery through your driving style.

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

I'd say 0.3 miles on a flat at 30mph

That surprises me a bit. I've gone a mile or so in my MK3 on the Battery, though it's a rare occurrence. I thought the 4 was more capable. 

Then again, I get the impression I'm less of a Hoonigan than you 

[Cyker]

That's likely because the Mk3's NiMH traction Battery is ~1.3kWh, but the Mk4's Li+ pack is only 0.7kWh!  

It's actually genius and partly why the Mk4 is so efficient, as the Battery is smaller and lithium, so it's much lighter than the Mk3's which improves mpg, and the lower capacity also forces the car to cycle between the ICE and electric at a higher frequency, which stops the engine cooling down too much (The Mk4's engine really needs to be at operating temp to really be efficient; It's like my old Mk1 D4D in that the efficiency drops off a cliff when it's cold!)

 

[Mojo1010]

When Battery has a good charge - upto 60 mph.

[hind]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's actually genius and partly why the Mk4 is so efficient, as the battery is smaller and lithium

I suppose that, by using lithium pack, they were able to exchange the higher currents thus better recuperation when braking and for driving with a constant speed the ICE power can be pumped into the Battery faster resulting in shorter recharge phase

[Ralph H]

Here’s my wrong answer to the wrong question, on my daily commute of 40 miles on mixed roads my mk4 does on average between 16 & 24 miles in EV mode depending on how gentle I am with the throttle. This is worked out from the trip reports in the MyT app. 

[CPN]

8 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Hi, 

Could anybody tell me how far a modern 115 hp, 3 cyl, gen 4 yaris, made from 2020 onwards, would get on just ev mode.

Since you've specified 2020 onwards, that means we're discussing a Mk4 Yaris

8 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Until what speed can this car drive in  ev mode ? Highway speeds too ?

Many others have already commented but the first thing that I would say is that the "EV" button in any of the Toyota Hybrids (not the plug-in variety) is a complete waste of a button. You cannot "force" a Yaris hybrid to stay in pure EV mode. (full stop)

Yes, if the SoC of the HV Battery is well up (>60%) and if you are on the flat (think driveway) and if you are very light on the loud pedal, then you may be able to move the car in EV mode without the ICE starting up but, that would probably only apply in the summer months when ambient temperatures are up in double figures. You'd be hard pressed to achieve the same thing during the cooler temperatures in the winter months. Even then, if you are for one second a little heavy with the loud pedal, the ICE will start up straight away and override the EV button.

As for highway speeds, again, if the conditions are ideal with a high SoC and you're on a fairly flat highway, sometimes the ICE will stay off/cut-out at up to 60+ mph in the Mk4 but only under certain lightly loaded conditions and not for any appreciable length of time. (I have actually managed a shade over 70 mph a couple of times in the HEV 130 variant...)

8 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Any info welcome on this specific engine. I think I read somewhere the batteries charge faster than before from normal driving ?

As @Cyker has already described, the Mk4 has the advantage of the lighter, smaller and more power dense Lithium-Ion power pack (even though it is smaller in power terms) which is not only able to deliver its power faster but also able to recharge much quicker than the NiMH pack of the Mk3. The fact that it is is lighter in weight helps a great deal in the overall performance of a Mk4 as compared to a Mk3 (I've experienced both) and there is a marked difference in this regard.

As others have also already said, there's no point in obsessing over how long it stays in EV mode as opposed to running with the ICE on. Just enjoy the drive and let the oh so clever electronics do their thing! There are no other hybrids on the road that are quite like (or as good as) a Toyota Hybrid. 😁

[HarryW2024]

Not sure if it going to prove to be useful but the latest 130HEV has a bigger MG1 with updated PCU compared to the 115.

As MG1 is the motor generator I wonder whether it is able to not only deliver more power as a motor but also greater charging capacity (current) back to the Li Battery as the generator. Making it overall more efficient in the real world. 

Time will tell. 

[HarryW2024]

In pure EV terms most EV’s will run around 4 miles per kW, so in theory a 0.76kW of the latest Li spec should be able to run around 3 miles.

However programming of the PCU (20-80%) would drop that to under 2 even if it allowed exclusive EV use, which it rarely will for a myriad of reasons.

[CPN]

14 minutes ago, HarryW2024 said:

Not sure if it going to prove to be useful but the latest 130HEV has a bigger MG1 with updated PCU compared to the 115.

As MG1 is the motor generator I wonder whether it is able to not only deliver more power as a motor but also greater charging capacity (current) back to the Li battery as the generator. Making it overall more efficient in the real world. 

Time will tell. 

Both, from what I have read...

[haelewyn]

I have owned an auris second generation before and there the maximum I could stay in ev driving conditions was around 1.2 miles.

Just wanted to know how much you can drive a Yaris on electricity to kind of estimate if this is the one for me or a corolla would be better suitable.

I did find a nice second hand yaris with a lot of extra's on it (incl hud and heated seats) but it's a mass seller (dealer) and I doubt if I can get a test ride. Cars are stocked in full rooms there.

I was looking at a corolla but noticed it went for maintenance first time on 23.000 km / around 14000 miles. So that must be a car somebody didn't take care of. It's still a little below 20k miles now.

I have no plans at all to push the ev button more often than extremely rarely as I know it was no use before. But I did wonder if that is still the same. That one was answered clearly.

I can expect to run around half of the distance on electric power. That's good to know.

Since I had the auris, I am still kind of a hypermiler..  so that will be useful to consume less gas. 

Now just need to decide if a yaris 12-2020, 4th Gen, is worth paying 6000 euro extra on my trade in aygoX from 01-2023.

The only reason I would change cars is for engine power. I am fed up a bit with having only 72 hp.

[CPN]

2 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

Now just need to decide if a yaris 12-2020, 4th Gen, is worth paying 6000 euro extra on my trade in aygoX from 01-2023.

I would say yes but then, I am biased... 😉

2 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

The only reason I would change cars is for engine power. I am fed up a bit with having only 72 hp.

Then you would be pleasantly surprised at the nippiness of the Mk4 Yaris...

[hind]

4 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

I can expect to run around half of the distance on electric power. That's good to know.

My average EV distance is 55%. Higher when driving in the city, lower on the motorway. 

[Bernard Foy]

I have to agree with CPN, it's a complete waste of a button, as the car will override it and do it's own thing as it's programmed to do.

[haelewyn]

Was the same thing on the Auris.

[jthspace]

It's a "feel good" button, makes you happy you are contributing to the green movement - hence it's colour on the dash.

 

[dash]

I’ve switched off that light. Just enjoy driving the car and achieving great mpg.

[forkingabout]

Only time I ever use the EV button is if I want to move the car in to / out of my garage without starting the power unit.

Rest of the time I just leave the hybrid system to sort itself out.

[haelewyn]

The bad point before on my auris (one of them) was that in winter (almost never in summer), the car was doing higher revs after start in order to warm up (using the heater) and reach ideal temperature for running.

In my circumstances it's a bit bad imho. I drive 200 meter, then usually need to stop for a traffic  light, then stand there while the car is revving around 2000 rpm.

The ev button didn't work in these circumstance and I found that was kind of a pity.

I would have liked it more if the engine could stop for the traffic light, I could maybe move 5 spaces up on electricity and the car could run and heat up while driving.

I found I wasted rather much petrol heating the engine up. It's better if it does that while driving ; then the petrol is used a lot more efficiently. 

[RickyC]

1 hour ago, Bernard Foy said:

I have to agree with CPN, it's a complete waste of a button, as the car will override it and do it's own thing as it's programmed to do.

I've used sometimes to drop a bit of Battery when the PCU continues to try charging a full Battery ( probably trying to clean GPF filter ).  Moving slowly ( about 35Km/h  21mp/h ) I can reach about a 1 mile before EV mode is automatically disabled and ICE start recharging.  

But I agree thai normally is wasted button, because in normal conditions moving slowly only EV is used, and if you want to force EV in a closed space to avoid emissions usually you get a "EV mode unavailable" message. 

[Mojo1010]

1 hour ago, haelewyn said:

The bad point before on my auris (one of them) was that in winter (almost never in summer), the car was doing higher revs after start in order to warm up (using the heater) and reach ideal temperature for running.

In my circumstances it's a bit bad imho. I drive 200 meter, then usually need to stop for a traffic  light, then stand there while the car is revving around 2000 rpm.

The ev button didn't work in these circumstance and I found that was kind of a pity.

I would have liked it more if the engine could stop for the traffic light, I could maybe move 5 spaces up on electricity and the car could run and heat up while driving.

I found I wasted rather much petrol heating the engine up. It's better if it does that while driving ; then the petrol is used a lot more efficiently. 

Think the only way for that is a PHEV.

We can only wish for the engine to be so clever to stop for traffic lights 😂, in any case it's the heater which makes it come on most of the time.