Hybrid >2020 gen4 : ev capabilities

[hind]

44 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

I wasted rather much petrol heating the engine up.

It still charges the Battery with all that "wasted" mechanical energy so it wins with the regular petrol car. After the engine gets warm, that accumulated energy can be spent on driving on EV mode.

[MikeSh]

48 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

In my circumstances it's a bit bad imho. I drive 200 meter, then usually need to stop for a traffic  light, then stand there while the car is revving around 2000 rpm

It's a bit of an "I've started so I'll finish" thing. If the climate control needs heat when you turn the car on it will start the engine, and once started it will run until it has some heat (unless you turn the car off again).

When I park the car for any length of time I turn the CC off before turning the car off. That way when I turn the car on next time it doesn't start the engine immediately - it stays off until either exceed a speed/power limit, the HV Battery needs charge or I turn the CC on again. If you do that, then with care, you could probably get to that traffic light on Battery and then turn the CC on when the light turns green.

[hind]

I don't think enabling or disabling A/C has anything to do with that (apart from the power consumption).

It's the heat which is required to warm up the cabin air, so if you don't want the ICE to start you need to also turn the heat to minimum. 

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, hind said:

I don't think enabling or disabling A/C has anything to do with that

I didn't say the A/C, I said the climate control - ie the entire system - which kills both heating and cooling. It then won't start because of heating or cooling.

On my MK3 there are buttons for Off and Auto. I just hit the Off before turning the car off and hit Auto when I'm happy for the engine to run if needed.

[hind]

Oh OK, I can't turn off the CC in Yaris IV (or can I? 🤔)

[TonyHSD]

If you had an Auris before, then you know already everything about any other Toyota hybrids.
Since 2010 and gen3 up to the very last one gen5 2024  they are very similar, and although there are a lots of improvements over the years they work exactly same way.
The latest gen 5 has in reality smaller electric motors, lighter gears and differential, everything has been made physically smaller than ever before while in the same time more robust, more efficient and lighter. The wasted energy been reduced too and the Battery chemistry is new , while everything been smaller and lighter on the ev side , all components gain power density. 
The cars feel brisker and lighter while accelerating, less noisy, and more efficient. Transmission components can rotate at higher rpm and maintain ev mode at over 60mph, this is what allows better overall efficiency. However the petrol side the technology is at its border end and this is what can be achieved as max thermal efficiency and performance. , physical limitations apply. If you drive the car at high speeds 70+ mph the fuel consumption will be very very similar to your Auris gen 3 hybrid. In town the newer generations exceeds these numbers. 
AC and heating does affect fuel consumption but not that much and these should be used all the times to provide and maintain ambient temperature in the cabin, good for the hybrid Battery . 

[Ralph H]

2 hours ago, hind said:

Oh OK, I can't turn off the CC in Yaris IV (or can I? 🤔)

Yes you can one of the small buttons is an off button !

[Ralph H]

Button “M”

[RickyC]

5 hours ago, MikeSh said:

When I park the car for any length of time I turn the CC off before turning the car off.

I too, even if very often I forget to do it 🙃

[Mojo1010]

Wanted more power as the main point, you will be very happy with the mk4, I previously stated this in the Aygo thread. Bonus is the economy is better than the Aygo X and quiet in ev mode which already knew from auris hybrid. 

[hind]

Yeah I've found it today myself after I asked the question and wasn't able to turn it back on 😅 probably shouldn't have done this while driving, but eventually tried the Auto button and it was back alive. Anyway I don't see the reason to disable it if I can just switch off the A/C

[Cyker]

When the HVAC is on when you start the car, the computer will go "Oh, my driver wants 20C but it's 15C, FIRE UP THE ENGINE!" and it'll just start the engine. If if you turn off the HVAC before you switch off the car, it doesn't do that so the car is less likely to fire up the engine as soon as you turn it on.

Also, if you do that and the engine still starts up, keep an eye on your 12v Battery as low 12v Battery voltage seems to trigger an early engine start too for some reason!

 

As for whether it's worth 6k over the AygoX, if you want a nippier car then I'd say it is - I still giggle slightly disturbingly every time I launch mine at traffic lights or pull a sharp overtake. This car is so much fun to drive!  

It's crazy - It's more responsive, has better handling, is faster, is more agile and has better driving feel but at the same time is somehow more efficient and economical! It's some kind of voodoo I tell you!   

I need to rein it in as I keep doing stupid things; A while back I discovered I can accelerate round that steep loop off the Hemel Hempstead junction which is absolutely something you should not do... but the car just does it and doesn't even slide!  

 

[AndrueC]

18 hours ago, MikeSh said:

How far it can go in EV is a distraction. With self-charging hybrids the only thing that really matters is how much of the braking energy you can put back into the battery to save petrol down the line. 

That partly or largely depends on how you drive, and specifically brake. Every time you push into the friction brakes you are throwing energy into the air.

Technically given that the hybrid regeneration system is not 100% efficient you are still throwing energy into the air if you brake gently. It's more efficient to adjust the speed using the accelerator pedal - this is true of all vehicles. Some energy will still be reclaimed in a hybrid and some will still be lost but by reducing the rate of deceleration both amounts are reduced.

In addition driving such that you can control the vehicle speed almost entirely by the accelerator pedal alone requires improved acceleration sense and road awareness from the driver. The result is a smoother, safer and more efficient drive.

..and yes, the purpose of the Battery is not to allow EV mode. EV mode is a bonus. The purpose of the Battery is to help the ICE operate efficiently by working with it. Too much time in EV can result in electric power not being available to assist when it's really needed.

[AndrueC]

Actually having thought about it if you brake such that the callipers aren't used it might save/waste the same amount of energy. It's just done over a shorter amount of time. I think. 🤔

However I maintain that if you can drive purely using the accelerator you are more in tune with your vehicle and the road conditions which will make you more efficient and safer.

[Kental]

7 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

If you had an Auris before, then you know already everything about any other Toyota hybrids.
Since 2010 and gen3 up to the very last one gen5 2024  they are very similar, and although there are a lots of improvements over the years they work exactly same way.
The latest gen 5 has in reality smaller electric motors, lighter gears and differential, everything has been made physically smaller than ever before while in the same time more robust, more efficient and lighter. The wasted energy been reduced too and the battery chemistry is new , while everything been smaller and lighter on the ev side , all components gain power density. 
The cars feel brisker and lighter while accelerating, less noisy, and more efficient. Transmission components can rotate at higher rpm and maintain ev mode at over 60mph, this is what allows better overall efficiency. However the petrol side the technology is at its border end and this is what can be achieved as max thermal efficiency and performance. , physical limitations apply. If you drive the car at high speeds 70+ mph the fuel consumption will be very very similar to your Auris gen 3 hybrid. In town the newer generations exceeds these numbers. 
AC and heating does affect fuel consumption but not that much and these should be used all the times to provide and maintain ambient temperature in the cabin, good for the hybrid battery . 

At high speeds the Yaris 1.5 will do 25 - 30% better economy than the Corolla 1.8. This was driving together rather than doing a similar journey at different times.

AC in Eco mode (car in Normal) has made negligible difference in the Hybrids.

[Kental]

The 130ps Yaris Cross (not sure about standard Yaris) uses predictive efficiency if using the built in Nav. If it detects a long downhill it will use more EV than otherwise to ensure you have an empty (relatively) Battery so the most regeneration can be gained on the downhill. Alternatively if it detects traffic holdups later on it will use more petrol to keep the Hybrid Battery charged as stop start is a far better use of the Battery.

[hind]

22 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

if you brake such that the callipers aren't used it might save/waste the same amount of energy. It's just done over a shorter amount of time. I think. 🤔

It all boils down to the MG efficiency in generator mode. Also remember that letting foot off the accelerator already enables regen braking imitating engine braking so without flashing the stop lights. 

Anyway it's better to not overthink that, Toyota hybrids tend to work best when left alone. 

[Cyker]

I find it's preferable to go slower and avoid braking as the regen braking actually recovers very little energy, certainly far less than the energy put in to accelerating to the speed you're regen'ing from!

One of the reasons I get such good mpg is my old Ford Fiesta forced me to learn to maintain momentum as its pathetic engine meant getting back any lost speed took a million years, and I've carried that through the diesels and this. Sometimes you got to go slow to go fast  

The main reason the hybrids are so efficient is the engine runs at its max efficiency almost all the time, something an engine rarely gets to do in normal cars. Esp. at low speeds, the engine is producing far more power than is needed, in order to stay at its maximum 40% efficiency - You can't do that in a normal car as there's no where for that energy to go, but in the Toyota hybrids it dumps all that extra work energy into the Battery - This is why we always have this bizarre unintuitive situation, where you can see the ICE sending energy to the wheels AND the Battery, which would seem like it uses MORE energy than just moving the car, yet somehow the car ends up more efficient despite using more energy!  

It's because it's staying in that magic 40% efficiency band and then cuts off to let MG2 use up all the 'wasted' energy the battery's been capturing. It's all really clever, and something very few manufacturers have figured out, which is why a lot of their non-plugin hybrids don't get anywhere near the efficiency of the Toyota ones in the real world.

 

[RickyC]

14 hours ago, hind said:

Yeah I've found it today myself after I asked the question and wasn't able to turn it back on 😅 probably shouldn't have done this while driving, but eventually tried the Auto button and it was back alive. Anyway I don't see the reason to disable it if I can just switch off the A/C

The off button stops HVAC, it's not a toggle button.  

You can turn on again HVAC pressing AUTO or fan speed up button ( on Dual mode HVAC ) or turning fan knob ( on single mode ).  

[HarryW2024]

The guy on YouTube (1001cars) who always gets superb mpg out of anything selects Eco driving mode and AC on all of his tests. Look him up and see what he gets for the Yaris and Yaris Cross. 

[CJA2002]

The 1001 cars guy was the one that confirmed my (albeit already made) choice of model was a good one for me 👍

Not just in the MPG figure, but in the total time of the ICE being off on that overall journey. Other than long motorway-type journey's, I can see my car doing much of that type of driving.

Now, I just want the damn thing to be delivered!! 😄