New Tyres

[ernieb]

Observation:

I’ve just fitted the Michelin CrossClimate 2 SUV’s that have been mentioned a few times. Bought from Costco and fitted by them, clean job that took under the hour. I’ve driven about 25 miles so far, not far enough to make to get a proper idea but I have a number of initial thoughts. The tyres were just slightly over pressure but the TPMS was working, 👌, I was immediately struck by how different the car felt just manoeuvring out of the parking bay. The steering felt slightly heavier but in a good way, make sense? The normal self cantering was faster even at slower speeds, just letting the steering run through my hands. On the country roads back which are averagely bumpy and pot holed there was no extra road noise I could detect and the ride was probably an improvement on that of the old tyre. There is a faster section of road taken at speed felt much more planted. 
First impressions are that they live up to my memory of this tyre which I’ve had on a number of previous cars.

It will be interesting to see how they feel when I next do some longer trips and the tyres have worn in.

@Nick, have you had your’s fitted yet?

[Nick72]

Good report Ernie. First thing tomorrow they get fitted by ATS Euromaster, as a partner to Blackcircles. At which point I'll have 4 almost new Bridgestones with no idea what I am going to do with them. I'd let them go for 80 quid for 4 here. Pick up only from Lancs. 🤣

Looking forward to trying them. I'll probably head up the local hills. See what happens.

Importantly, did they put them on the right way around? Pointy bit of the arrow pattern rolls forwards. 🤷

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Good report Ernie. First thing tomorrow they get fitted by ATS Euromaster, as a partner to Blackcircles. At which point I'll have 4 almost new Bridgestones with no idea what I am going to do with them. I'd let them go for 80 quid for 4 here. Pick up only from Lancs. 🤣

Looking forward to trying them. I'll probably head up the local hills. See what happens.

Importantly, did they put them on the right way around? Pointy bit of the arrow pattern rolls forwards. 🤷

Put your old one on Facebook marketplace and ask better price, more realistic like at least half of new ones and someone will buy them. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, Nick72 said:

First thing tomorrow they get fitted by ATS Euromaster, as a partner to Blackcircles.

Michelin own both Blackcircles and ATS Euromaster ....

[TonyHSD]

Very interesting tyres video here 

 

[dkp001]

I await further reports with interest - I have been debating what to do - in the past on my All Terrain I ran separate Winter and Summers as they never used to be CCs available in the size of the rears (until this year when I no longer have the car that is....).  I have been thinking over 3 options

1. Getting a winter set and swapping November/April
2. Getting CCs now and just storing the summers just in case
3. Hoping for a mild winter this time around and getting some use out of the Bridgestones then changing to CCs before next Winter...

Option 2 sounds odd but when I had a pot hole incident in my last car towards the end of the winter season no winters or ccs were easily available for an immediate fit so the car would have been off the riad for a few days if I hadn't had my old summer set stored - I guess the other option if moving to ccs and not wanting to store a summer set would be to get a Road Hero - that said 2 went with the pot hole... one of my key criteria in choosing a new car was no low profiles!!

Over thinking I know....

[ernieb]

I used to have summer and winter tyres and found both storing them and then changing over was a real pain. I change to winter as I thought the weather had turned for the season only to find the next few weeks were really warm and the winters did not play well. When they brought out the first CrossClimates I gave them a few seasons to get reviewed and feedback from users then decided time to change. Never looked back. I also found that storing the tyres did see some deterioration in the walls, not massive but definite signs that they would not last. The winters were the worst in this respect.

I do have a Road Hero saver in the boot. Not a massive fan of the junk and the saver gives me enough confidence.

The CC's I have just had fitted have a date code of 3524 so they have just recently been manufactured.

The CC's are not as good as a winter tyre but better than a poorly stored or deteroating winter. I stored mine on a tyre tree as I found that storing them on edge meant I had to keep seeing a calendar schedule to go out and rotate them to avoid pressure damage to one area of the tyre. To be honest I was getting to old to play the game, too much hassle all around.

[Nick72]

7 hours ago, dkp001 said:

I await further reports with interest - I have been debating what to do - in the past on my All Terrain I ran separate Winter and Summers as they never used to be CCs available in the size of the rears (until this year when I no longer have the car that is....).  I have been thinking over 3 options

1. Getting a winter set and swapping November/April
2. Getting CCs now and just storing the summers just in case
3. Hoping for a mild winter this time around and getting some use out of the Bridgestones then changing to CCs before next Winter...

Option 2 sounds odd but when I had a pot hole incident in my last car towards the end of the winter season no winters or ccs were easily available for an immediate fit so the car would have been off the riad for a few days if I hadn't had my old summer set stored - I guess the other option if moving to ccs and not wanting to store a summer set would be to get a Road Hero - that said 2 went with the pot hole... one of my key criteria in choosing a new car was no low profiles!!

Over thinking I know....

Like Ernie, no time not energy for the faff of storing, turning, getting them swapped over etc.

There are however some tyre hotels were you get them stored for the swap. But, it's just hassle.

I'm a regular on snowy winter mountain roads and TBH not had a significant issues with the stock Yokohamas on the last R4P. So CC2s will be a league ahead of that. I'm not expecting any issues whatsoever in any conditions in the UK. If there are then I shouldn't be driving even in a land rover with snow chains. 

That was my logic at least. CC2s all year around, they're just better in all conditions than stock. Noting also that in my place of world you can have 4 seasons within 2 days at almost any time of the year. 

[Nick72]

Tyre test data here.

CC2 SUV comes out top or near top in most tests. Very respectable scores elsewhere.

Anticipating a drop in economy of 5 to 10 percent but it seems a fair trade.

 

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2023-SUV-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

[Nick72]

Haven't driven more than 5 miles @erniebbut definitely different to the Bridgestone Alenza 001 stock. 

Most notable is the the ride comfort. It has significantly improved with the softer rubber. It's actually better than the 2021 PHEV on Yokohamas despite the much stuffer suspension.

What I'm now expecting is changes in cornering, not necessarily for the better but we'll see tomorrow out on the country lanes and the fells.

Steering is less pin sharp and slightly heavier but the car does stay more centred like you say, especially up and down the pot holes everywhere. It's definitely more planted on the road and although the Bridgestones get a very good wet safety rating I'm anticipating much better.

I did wonder is there's now a lower puncture resistance, which had never occurred to me until now, owing to the softer rubber?

Winter driving and off-road performance I can't compare to the Bridgestones but will be able to do versus the Yokohamas once we get the snow and ice. 

[ernieb]

As far as I know the CC’s use a combination of natural and synthetic rubber which gives the better temperature performance range than summer pure synthetic tyres. In all my previous cars with CC tyres I’ve never had a puncture not that history is an indication of future performance. Again in the past I’ve seen a small loss in fuel efficiency but I’d say it was easily under 5%. I guess better grip probably results in more rolling resistance?

[Bozz]

18 hours ago, ernieb said:

Observation:

I’ve just fitted the Michelin CrossClimate 2 SUV’s that have been mentioned a few times. Bought from Costco and fitted by them, clean job that took under the hour. I’ve driven about 25 miles so far, not far enough to make to get a proper idea but I have a number of initial thoughts. The tyres were just slightly over pressure but the TPMS was working, 👌, I was immediately struck by how different the car felt just manoeuvring out of the parking bay. The steering felt slightly heavier but in a good way, make sense? The normal self cantering was faster even at slower speeds, just letting the steering run through my hands. On the country roads back which are averagely bumpy and pot holed there was no extra road noise I could detect and the ride was probably an improvement on that of the old tyre. There is a faster section of road taken at speed felt much more planted. 
First impressions are that they live up to my memory of this tyre which I’ve had on a number of previous cars.

It will be interesting to see how they feel when I next do some longer trips and the tyres have worn in.

@Nick, have you had your’s fitted yet?

I believe there are 3 possible and distinct versions of the CC2 available in the UK, Std, XL and SUV

[ernieb]

1 minute ago, Bozz said:

I believe there are 3 possible and distinct versions of the CC2 available in the UK, Std, XL and SUV

Correct but limited choice in certain sizes. For my 235/55 R19 101v it was SUV only being offered. I believe the SUV variant has stiffer side walls? I’ve used it on previous cars with AWD or 4WD.

[Nick72]

Yep CC2 SUV fitted.

 

[TonyHSD]

The all seasons tyres Michelin cc and similar although suitable for winter use they aren’t as good as winter tyres.
Many think they are much better than summer tyres , and they are indeed but when you drive on snow and ice, on dry and wet asphalt there is no difference between them and typical summer tyres.
The all 🛞 tyres are rated to 5C° , below that they start to harden similar to summer tyres. They still gonna be better than summer tyres but only cold weather without snow or ice will not warrant any fitting imo. 
Just drive your cars with what you have original fitted if you live in most of England except Scotland and some hilly regions. When your oem tyres gone you can replace with all seasons as those give slightly less road noise too. 

[Nick72]

7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

The all seasons tyres Michelin cc and similar although suitable for winter use they aren’t as good as winter tyres.
Many think they are much better than summer tyres , and they are indeed but when you drive on snow and ice, on dry and wet asphalt there is no difference between them and typical summer tyres.
The all 🛞 tyres are rated to 5C° , below that they start to harden similar to summer tyres. They still gonna be better than summer tyres but only cold weather without snow or ice will not warrant any fitting imo. 
Just drive your cars with what you have original fitted if you live in most of England except Scotland and some hilly regions. When your oem tyres gone you can replace with all seasons as those give slightly less road noise too. 

I'm just looking at test data at the link earlier and similar which shows significantly better performance in most of the many tests than a reference Sumner tyre, and very close scores and sometimes better to reference winter tyres. 

I think the 3 category classification is unhelpful. It comes down to what you want to improve upon the stock tyres. Number one for me is I do have a place literally over the top of a mountain so significantly better ice and snow performance versus summer tyres was high on my list. Then there's off road performance for the trails and tracks. After that, general improvement in grip and braking in dry and wet. The data suggests this is the case and it's reasonably significant.

These were my drivers. Always a compromise but these seem like the best compromise of all the options I've looked at. As good if not better than many summer tyres, better in the wet, almost as good as many winter tyres. What's not to like.

Note I had 3 years on the last PHEV on the stock Yokohamas. They were ok except in the wet and ice. Snow was just about good enough but only because I was especially cautious I guess.

[ernieb]

A lot of tyres do not perform well in ice I’ve always had the CC’s preform very well in the wet. For me it’s one of the main reasons to make the change. Driving motorways in heavy rain when there are lorry’s around can be disconcerting to say the least. Experience of the CC’s in these conditions gives me confidence that the car is still making contact with the road - evidenced by the trail of clean road tracks behind me.

[APS]

First of all; we cannot get outright winter tyres in the UK (like Continental VikingContact, Nokian Hakkapelitta, GoodYear UltraGrip Ice etc.). You need to import them if you want them. Everything we get here are milder winter/all season tyres. And it is mostly sufficient. EDIT: You CAN get winter tyres, they are just harder to come by as they only take in limited stock.

I agree with Ernie, CrossCliamtes perform brilliantly in the wet. We've driven up the Alps and through Scandinavia in the winter. No, they are not invincible or as good as a proper winter tyres, but they are certainly much better and safer than standard tyres... and, where winter tyres are a requirement, they are legal. Summer tyres are not. 

CrossClimates are a really good compromise and you can truly run them all year round. I've not seen any drop in fuel efficiency running them on two of our cars for quite a few years now. They are quieter and run smoother with retained steering feel (as much as you can feel through a modern car's steering).

[philip42h]

8 minutes ago, APS said:

First of all; we cannot get outright winter tyres in the UK

Yes we can - many of the nationwide tyre companies will supply them. See for example Winter Contacts from ATS that would suit my car nicely if I wanted to go back to running two sets as I did before.

But we can now also get a good selection of good all season tyres which for many are a more logical buy for the UK climate.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

A lot of tyres do not perform well in ice I’ve always had the CC’s preform very well in the wet. For me it’s one of the main reasons to make the change. Driving motorways in heavy rain when there are lorry’s around can be disconcerting to say the least. Experience of the CC’s in these conditions gives me confidence that the car is still making contact with the road - evidenced by the trail of clean road tracks behind me.

Agree. 

I do 4 or 5 300 to 500 mile round trips a month, though I've got a quiet spell at the moment. Heaving down rain and I was never that confident on the Yokohamas. It always felt like if I had to swerve the car would start to slide. 

Ice performance is significantly better than most tyres according to various review tests. But driving on ice is always difficult whatever we're driving so I'll take it as extra insurance opposed to an opportunity to go faster. Softer rubber, aggressive tread pattern, should help a little.

[Nick72]

[APS]

31 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Yes we can - many of the nationwide tyre companies will supply them.

Indeed there are plenty of Euro tyres. I was looking at Nordic compound ones, which are harder to come by here.

[dkp001]

Very tempting to switch, but doing a lot less miles now than I used to, I am struggling a little with the thought of taking off essentially brand new tyres but I will for sure if the temperatures start to look like they are going to drop we'll into single figures - In the meantime I will continue to mull it over.... I take no convincing on the ride as I always preferred my all terrain on the winters it was much smoother so I used to keep them on as long as possible ...

@Nick72 I trust the marks on the rim are just that messy white liquid they use and that they didnt scratch up the black gloss... never having had painted alloys before its another fear i have (as well as pothole damage) as I am not sure how easy alloy repairs would be with the detailing that there is on the wheels.

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

Yes we can - many of the nationwide tyre companies will supply them. See for example Winter Contacts from ATS that would suit my car nicely if I wanted to go back to running two sets as I did before.

But we can now also get a good selection of good all season tyres which for many are a more logical buy for the UK climate.

He's talking about the really hardcore winter tyres you generally only see in nordic countries - They'd be useless here as they'd melt from overheating  

It is a bit confusing as when we talk about winter tyres in the UK, we almost always mean the 'normal' winter tyres that central east/west euro countries use because we don't really get the kind of extreme winters the nordic countries do, where you need studded winter tyres or the new types of studless ice-grip winter tyres.

The CrossClimates are nowhere near as good in snow and ice as an actual winter tyre, and most other all-seasons will also outperform them.

The reason the Cross Climates are so revolutionary is they are near-perfect for our climate - They are unusual in that they maintain much better summer performance than 'normal' all-seasons, which were like driving on a budget summer tyre in summer.

The CCs are more summer-biased than most all-season tyres, so they don't loose as much performance in the summer but have enough winter performance to deal with the relatively mild winters we have.

That said, as other manufacturers have seen their success they have been moving in that direction too which has levelled the field a lot more than when they originally came out. Also, the CC2s have gone the other way and lessened the summer-bias slightly in favour of improved winter performance, which has also shortened the gap.

 

My rule of thumb is you can get away with summer tyres all-year round from about milton keynes and downwards; Above that CC's are the perfect tyre, and when you start getting past Leeds/Lancs then it's worth having a winter and a summer set of tyres.

(Not sure if this is still accurate though as I think the lines have moved a bit with rising temps!)

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, dkp001 said:

Very tempting to switch, but doing a lot less miles now than I used to, I am struggling a little with the thought of taking off essentially brand new tyres but I will for sure if the temperatures start to look like they are going to drop we'll into single figures - In the meantime I will continue to mull it over.... I take no convincing on the ride as I always preferred my all terrain on the winters it was much smoother so I used to keep them on as long as possible ...

@Nick72 I trust the marks on the rim are just that messy white liquid they use and that they didnt scratch up the black gloss... never having had painted alloys before its another fear i have (as well as pothole damage) as I am not sure how easy alloy repairs would be with the detailing that there is on the wheels.

It's either some kind of tyre grease or the silicone shiny foam. Good point though as I haven't checked the alloys properly! I suspect they'll have all the right tooling to avoid a problem. Plus it's only a matter of time before I go down a deep pot hole or curb them 🤦.