Hybrid ok for low mileage driver?

[yarissoph]

I'm planning on selling my first car which is a 2017 toyota yaris hybrid without waffling on its due to the Battery constantly going flat. I've only got an automatic licence so when I went to the toyota garage the only thing they could offer that wasn't hybrid (I didnt want hybrid due to first one having issues) was the aygo but the boot isn't big enough for me. I would say I drive about 30 miles a week minimum however I will drive more with my next car as I'm more confident with my driving now and have learnt from this experience not to leave my car too long. Anyway my question is now that all the newer toyota yaris are hybrid do you think there less likely to have Battery issues or do you think I don't drive enough and should just get a normal petrol car? Anyone on here have a hybrid and don't do big mileage? 

[Mojo1010]

The newer hybrid isn't going to solve your problem of low mileage. Your car is 7 years old, not surprising to have Battery issue with low usage. For the record, I had a 2016 which I had for 5 years and no Battery issue. Don't do big mileage, though I know how to look after the Battery. 

The cheapest thing to do is keep current car, replace the battery and have a read on leaving in ready mode or charge the car once a week when not in use. Read top pinned thread on maintenance/12v battery.

[TonyHSD]

I would rather buy an aygo x cvt automatic or look for another brand. 
Hybrid and low mileage not the best combination as you already know. 
Skoda, seat, Vw, Hyundai or kia all offer good small cars. Just research what engines they have and avoid those with wet belt , buy a car with timing chain instead. 

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, yarissoph said:

Anyone on here have a hybrid and don't do big mileage? 

This low mileage killing the 12V Battery isn't really a hybrid thing. Pretty much all modern cars are at risk because they have a lot of electronics that are live, albeit in a low current mode, that drain the Battery. So just going non-hybrid is not a solution.

That said I don't do a big mileage - 2-3k a year - but I am a little spooked by these reports and do keep an eye on it. (I've actually just this afternoon given it a top-up charge as I'm going away for a couple of weeks on Monday ... just in case.) I'd probably be better off using taxis and the odd hire car, but it's hard to change. 

A more immediate issue for you is cost. Hybrids are significantly more expensive than other automatics, even in the used space, and for low mileages the savings in fuel won't recover that initial expense. So for your use a cheaper 'normal' automatic would probably make more sense financially.

[hind]

If the car stays outside - solar charger. 

If it stays inside - trickle charger. 

[AJones]

10 hours ago, yarissoph said:

I'm planning on selling my first car which is a 2017 toyota yaris hybrid without waffling on its due to the battery constantly going flat.

....

I would say I drive about 30 miles a week minimum.

How long have you owned the car and when was the 12V Battery last replaced?

As a rule of thumb, the 12V Battery will generally last about 5 years, beyond that you're taking a risk of it having issues.

[yarissoph]

9 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

The newer hybrid isn't going to solve your problem of low mileage. Your car is 7 years old, not surprising to have battery issue with low usage. For the record, I had a 2016 which I had for 5 years and no battery issue. Don't do big mileage, though I know how to look after the battery. 

The cheapest thing to do is keep current car, replace the battery and have a read on leaving in ready mode or charge the car once a week when not in use. Read top pinned thread on maintenance/12v battery.

The only reason I've not replaced the Battery is because I took the car to the toyota garage and they tested it and charged it for me and they said there's nothing wrong with it then it still died the next day. I explained it to them and they did a drainage test as well and they said that was fine. They said they could change the Battery but can't be 100% it will fix the problem. I'm just worried there's something wrong with the electrics and I don't want to keep spending money for it not to work. I've already bought a solar charger and a Battery conditioner I was thinking I best sell it before it gets any worse. 

[yarissoph]

1 hour ago, hind said:

If the car stays outside - solar charger. 

If it stays inside - trickle charger. 

I've tried with the solar charger I park on the top level of the car park with it on but I still sometimes come back to my car and it's flat again. 

[yarissoph]

59 minutes ago, AJones said:

How long have you owned the car and when was the 12V battery last replaced?

As a rule of thumb, the 12V battery will generally last about 5 years, beyond that you're taking a risk of it having issues.

I've only owned it just over a year it's a bit of a disaster really I bought it from hpl motors and there was no warranty. I did research a bit before I bought it and toyota are the number 2 most reliable brand of car and I checked the reviews for the yaris hybrid and there all really good. I don't know wether it's worth me changing the Battery because when I took it to toyota they tested the Battery and said there's nothing wrong with it. I'm worried it's something else with the electrics. I think it's only £100 for a new Battery though and I payed £12000 for the car so I should maybe try it it's just going to be a bit annoying if it doesn't work 🫤. 

[Paul john]

10 minutes ago, yarissoph said:

I've only owned it just over a year it's a bit of a disaster really I bought it from hpl motors and there was no warranty. I did research a bit before I bought it and toyota are the number 2 most reliable brand of car and I checked the reviews for the yaris hybrid and there all really good. I don't know wether it's worth me changing the battery because when I took it to toyota they tested the battery and said there's nothing wrong with it. I'm worried it's something else with the electrics. I think it's only £100 for a new battery though and I payed £12000 for the car so I should maybe try it it's just going to be a bit annoying if it doesn't work 🫤. 

A 2017 model would have lived through the Covid “low drive period” which ruined a lot of 12v. 

[forkingabout]

40 minutes ago, yarissoph said:

The only reason I've not replaced the battery is because I took the car to the toyota garage and they tested it and charged it for me and they said there's nothing wrong with it then it still died the next day. I explained it to them and they did a drainage test as well and they said that was fine. They said they could change the battery but can't be 100% it will fix the problem. I'm just worried there's something wrong with the electrics and I don't want to keep spending money for it not to work. I've already bought a solar charger and a battery conditioner I was thinking I best sell it before it gets any worse. 

The amount of times I've seen " Toyota dealer charged & tested 12 volt Battery, then it died shortly after "

The Battery needs a proper load test to check it's health which it will fail.

 

[jthspace]

A Battery will be approx £60-£70 mail order, if you feel confident to change it yourself. Pretty sure dealer test won't really reveal the Battery issue, quite a few posts on here with people having failing batteries that the dealer says are OK.

A Battery will generally be at the "replacement" stage at 5 years, so not really a surprise, and, as @Paul john says, it probably suffered during the covid period by being flat more often than charged.

You will lose quite a bit by changing your car, so a battery change may save you more than by part exchanging.  You've said you have a solar charger, they generally work well, so if you didn't get a charge, then almost certain the battery is duff.  

Consider getting a service at a Toyota dealer to take advantage of their extended warranty up to 10 years after first registration - but "consumables" like battery and tyres are not a warranty item.

I would change the battery and enjoy your car!

[AndrueC]

The Battery shouldn't be dead the day after it was charged. That suggests that either the charger is defective or the Battery is. A properly charged and healthy Battery should last several days, probably a week between drives.

[MikeSh]

29 minutes ago, jthspace said:

A battery will be approx £60-£70 mail order,

I believe they are AGM on the MK3 so probably £100+.

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, yarissoph said:

I still sometimes come back to my car and it's flat again. 

So it's been flattened multiple times in the last year alone and as others have said it probably suffered during COVID. It's dead - put it out of its misery, and reduce* yours.

Mine's a year younger but I'm always prepared for batteries to fail at this sort of age. If it happens at this time of year - going into winter - I replace immediately. It's not worth the hassle of nursing a few more months or of it.

( * It won't fix the Greater Manchester problem 😉 )

[yarissoph]

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to get the Battery replaced like you say then if it still doesn't work I'll sell it and get a normal auto. 

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, forkingabout said:

The amount of times I've seen " Toyota dealer charged & tested 12 volt battery, then it died shortly after "

The battery needs a proper load test to check it's health which it will fail.

 

Yeah, I'd really like to know what their testing regime is as it clearly isn't fit for purpose given how many false negatives they get. And that's assuming they are actually testing the Battery and not just blagging it! 

[hind]

It's just difficult to measure the capacity without spending at least a day doing this. 

When I changed the Battery in my Ford Focus diesel, it had effective capacity of 3Ah (amount of charge measured during the charging process starting at 11.6V and finishing at 14.4v when the current dropped to 200mA). When the guys in the Battery shop measured it, it still produced around 300 amps of current, that's why the car started without issues. So when the testing procedures only relies on current and voltage, even severely worn out Battery will pass the test (usually with "ok - recharge" summary) because of the low voltage during test. 

[Chas G]

A 7 year old Battery will almost certainly need replacing. It may show a decent voltage but will not have sufficient capacity. Someone on the forum described it as like having a bucket which appears half full of water but it's also half full of sand.

After a decent charge your Battery should last at least a week without running the car.

To see what the Battery is doing buy one of these meters.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-Car-Battery-Tester-Cigarette-Lighter-Voltmeter-Detector-Meter-Lit-LCD-/363427719127?_ul=GB&var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5339059258&toolid=10044&customid=Cj0KCQjwgL-3BhDnARIsAL6KZ6_1N9n2LnKpOabpQXHUfI_IPBqPt08LPSU7yZcIHjN1GpF8RO4vXHgaApXMEALw_wcB&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgL-3BhDnARIsAL6KZ6_1N9n2LnKpOabpQXHUfI_IPBqPt08LPSU7yZcIHjN1GpF8RO4vXHgaApXMEALw_wcB

Plug it into the accessory socket and put the car in accessory mode and it will tell you the battery voltage while it's not being charged.

12.7 volts fully charged, less than 12 volts and it needs charging.

Put the car into ready mode and this will take a bit of juice out of the battery and the meter should immediately show 14+ volts showing its now receiving a charge from the main battery. 

Based on the above you can decide what to do.

However, 30 minutes drive a week is not enough to maintain the charge in your 12v battery. All that will happen is every time you start the car it will take more capacity out of the battery than your short journey can replace........the battery will slowly die.

 

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Chas G said:

..every time you start the car it will take more capacity out of the battery than your short journey can replace........the battery will slowly die.

I don't think that's quite right. Starting the car doesn't take a huge amount out of the Battery - it only has to operate a relay.

Surely the issue for us is the amount of time spent in Ready mode (driving or otherwise) v. the amount of time spent Off.

[dash]

There’s more to it than simply the HV relays, there’s also the numerous ECUs which wake up. I monitored using my BM6 (bluetooth Battery monitor) and saw a 0.2V drop when the car sensed the key, then another 0.2V when the car was unlocked (and mirrors extended), and another 0.2V when the brake pedal was pressed followed by another 0.2V drop when the start button was pressed. The Battery dropped from 12.3V to 11.5V before the uptick to 14V once in Ready mode.
 

[flash22]

Mk3 uses an AGM Battery Replace it like for like there around £150 - do not use a non-AGM Battery - typical dealers, charge the Battery, then test, of course, it comes back fine - out the door it goes

 

lockdown killed off a lot of batteries, once discharged a few times they start to degrade - nothing wrong with hybrid and low miles, come across one that had done 8000 miles in 10 years and it was on its original battery

 

changing the car because of a dealer's bad advice is taking it a bit far

 

New battery and you will be fine

[flash22]

5 minutes ago, dash said:

There’s more to it than simply the HV relays, there’s also the numerous ECUs which wake up. I monitored using my BM6 (Bluetooth battery monitor) and saw a 0.2V drop when the car sensed the key, then another 0.2V when the car was unlocked (and mirrors extended), and another 0.2V when the brake pedal was pressed followed by another 0.2V drop when the start button was pressed. The battery dropped from 12.3V to 11.5V before the uptick to 14V once in Ready mode.
 

voltage over time is worthless without current draw - was this on a mk4, the mk3 uses an AGM Battery so the DC to DC is different

[Chas G]

40 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

I don't think that's quite right. Starting the car doesn't take a huge amount out of the battery - it only has to operate a relay.

Surely the issue for us is the amount of time spent in Ready mode (driving or otherwise) v. the amount of time spent Off.

According to my Battery voltage monitor it drops when you put the car in ready mode. The hv Battery then starts to charge the 12v Battery with 14v+ and after a while the charge drops to 13v.

If the journey is less than about 45 mins, the voltage is less when I stop the car than when I started out.

If the journey is more than 45 mins, the voltage at the end is pretty much the same.

Over a period of days of short journeys, the voltage slowly decreases even with the dumb entry system, cabin/boot light and dash cam turned off and the headlight settings turned to minimum to stop them coming on except when they are really needed.

After doing regular voltage checks over a month, I estimated that I could leave the car for about 10 days before the voltage decrease would become a problem.

Now I simply plug my car into the Ctek charger in my garage after every time I use the car and no longer worry about the 12 volt battery.

[Chas G]

40 minutes ago, flash22 said:

8000 miles in 10 years and it was on its original battery

 

Truly a miracle......was it Mother Theresa driving it by any chance?

Wouldn't have been Jesus because he preferred the reliability and silent ride of a donkey.

I suppose it could have been Martin Luther King at the wheel......he had a dream too.