Battery performance

[Piccasso74]

Hi, could you please give me some advice regarding the Toyota bz4x battery's performance?

My recently purchased Toyota BZ4X Premier Edition AWD has an excellent appearance and drive, but I have some concerns regarding the battery's current performance. I fully charged it at the showroom and drove 75 miles; the Battery is now at 50%.

The salesperson at the showroom stated that it would improve after a few charging cycles were completed. 

Regards 

PAT

[philip42h]

The actual range you get will depend very much on your journey type and how the car is driven. Toyota provide a Range Calculator that gives some idea as to what range you might expect.

You don't give the % SoC when you set out, nor the originally estimated range. But the key point here is that they are estimates based on recent driving experience. If your journey type is reasonably consistent the estimating accuracy will improve over time.

At this point all you can really do is charge it up again and monitor it 'properly' to see whether you experience lies within the typical ranges suggested by the Calculator ...

[Piccasso74]

Hello, Philip.

I appreciate your response, but I am concerned about the charging efficiency—it seems like a toy car. 

[wivenhoe]

Unless you are driving somewhere where the temperature is -25c, using 50% in only 75 miles means something is wrong. You say you charged it full at the dealers - as phillip24 says, are you sure it was at 100%. 

[Piccasso74]

Hello Wivenhoe

Yes, it was definitely changed as usual with the delivery of a new car.

[Piccasso74]

I drove in all typical weather, which was 15°C. 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Piccasso74 said:

I drove in all typical weather, which was 15°C. 

But that’s normal . You had traveled 74 miles and you have 114 remaining miles of range which will make up to 188. 
If the car been used in inefficient way, rain, wind motorway speeds etc the total range will decrease. After few more charges and different use with less motorways the car will settle to a higher range. I don’t see anything to be worried about. 👌

[Piccasso74]

Hi, Tony

Thank you for your response.

[philip42h]

10 hours ago, Piccasso74 said:

I drove in all typical weather, which was 15°C. 

That shows estimates of 50% SoC and estimated range of 114 miles - giving an estimated range of 228 miles on a full charge. While that's not exactly 'great' its within specification / expectation for the bZ4X ...

[Piccasso74]

Hi guys! I am grateful  for your answer. I charged the Battery from 50% to 100% and then drove 9 miles; the vehicle now shows a remaining charge of 96%. Is it good? 

[Andy BZ4x]

For info, mine is an AWD

Summer I get 260 miles, winter nearer 220  

[Gray86]

Try to avoid fully charging the Battery, it will increase degredation. Top rules to look after your battery: 

1) don’t charge to 100% unless you really need all the range. If you do, don’t leave it at 100% for more than a couple of hours. 
2) charge little & often rather than running Battery low then doing a big charge. 
3) don’t let Battery sit at below 20% for long. 
4) if going on holiday or not using car for a long period, keep battery at around 50% SOC. 

 

[wivenhoe]

12 hours ago, Piccasso74 said:

Hi guys! I am grateful  for your answer. I charged the battery from 50% to 100% and then drove 9 miles; the vehicle now shows a remaining charge of 96%. Is it good? 

You seem to be going round in circles. Your screen shot shows the car wasn’t at 100% when you collected it. The total miles driven on the car was 74 yet the forecast was 114 miles with 50% remaining. Therefore the total expected range was more like 228 miles. You fully charged it and used 4% to do 9 miles. Two things - what did it say at 100% ? And 9 miles / 4% =225 miles. I bet it forecast 225+. The more you use it the more accurate the forecast will be as it learns from previous consumptions. 
If the usable Battery is say 68 kw then that equates to 3.3 miles / kw which is good against the majority of current EV’s. 

[Piccasso74]

1 hour ago, wivenhoe said:

You seem to be going round in circles. Your screen shot shows the car wasn’t at 100% when you collected it. The total miles driven on the car was 74 yet the forecast was 114 miles with 50% remaining. Therefore the total expected range was more like 228 miles. You fully charged it and used 4% to do 9 miles. Two things - what did it say at 100% ? And 9 miles / 4% =225 miles. I bet it forecast 225+. The more you use it the more accurate the forecast will be as it learns from previous consumptions. 
If the usable battery is say 68 kw then that equates to 3.3 miles / kw which is good against the majority of current EV’s. 

Many thanks for your thorough explanation. On delivery, Battery fully charged to 100% and I drove 74 miles. However, after the Battery dropped to 50%, I fully recharged it again  and conducted some tests, running 9 miles. I'm curious to know how you assumed the information from the screenshot thatwasn't fully charged.

  

[Piccasso74]

7 hours ago, Andy BZ4x said:

For info, mine is an AWD

Summer I get 260 miles, winter nearer 220  

It's amazing if you get 260 miles from one charge. Could you please specify the year of manufacture for your AWD?

[G S]

On 9/23/2024 at 8:06 PM, Gray86 said:

Try to avoid fully charging the battery, it will increase degredation. Top rules to look after your battery: 

1) don’t charge to 100% unless you really need all the range. If you do, don’t leave it at 100% for more than a couple of hours. 
2) charge little & often rather than running battery low then doing a big charge. 
3) don’t let battery sit at below 20% for long. 
4) if going on holiday or not using car for a long period, keep battery at around 50% SOC. 

 

Or just follow the Toyota advice and leave it to the car to manage:

How frequently do I have to charge it?

We recommend charging as often as needed to maintain a sufficient state of charge for your anticipated trips, with consideration of available charging methods at your destinations.

Depending on the type of charger, we recommend charging to certain limits to maintain the long-term Battery health.

AC (Level 1 and Level 2): Go ahead and charge to 100%. Once 100% is reached, it will stop charging to help preserve the Battery.

DC Fast Charging (Level 3): We recommend charging to 80% to achieve the maximum benefit of the quick charging speed. It is possible to charge to 100% with this method, but the charging rate will automatically be reduced once it reaches 80% to help preserve the Battery. To help maintain long-term battery health, DC Fast Charging should be limited to three cycles of charging (Low Light to 80%) per day throughout the year.

[Andy BZ4x]

Yes, my AWD was 2023 (Delivery 1st May 2023). 260 miles quite consistent during summer months, i usually from about 100-150 miles a day mainly on A roads & I always fully recharge to 100% every night

[philip42h]

9 hours ago, Piccasso74 said:

 I'm curious to know how you assumed the information from the screenshot that wasn't fully charged.  

Your original screenshot shows that you had so far covered 74 miles and then had a 50% charge with an estimated range of 114 miles:

On 9/22/2024 at 10:19 PM, Piccasso74 said:

I drove in all typical weather, which was 15°C. 

There is no evidence from this screen shot that the car was originally charged to 100%. It has only covered 74 miles when a 50% charge should be sufficient for 114 miles of range so the simplest assumption would be that it wasn't fully charged from the outset.

If it was fully charged - and you say that you started with 100% charge - then you appear to have lost / used around 40 miles range as part of that initial usage. This could be through inefficient driving (high speed / hard acceleration), heavy use of the car's electrical systems while stationary or a combination of the two. Only you will know what actually happened ... 😉

Simple arithmetic would suggest to me that you actually set out with around an 80% charge - but I wasn't there!!!

[Gray86]

14 hours ago, G S said:

Or just follow the Toyota advice and leave it to the car to manage:

How frequently do I have to charge it?

We recommend charging as often as needed to maintain a sufficient state of charge for your anticipated trips, with consideration of available charging methods at your destinations.

Depending on the type of charger, we recommend charging to certain limits to maintain the long-term battery health.

AC (Level 1 and Level 2): Go ahead and charge to 100%. Once 100% is reached, it will stop charging to help preserve the battery.

DC Fast Charging (Level 3): We recommend charging to 80% to achieve the maximum benefit of the quick charging speed. It is possible to charge to 100% with this method, but the charging rate will automatically be reduced once it reaches 80% to help preserve the battery. To help maintain long-term battery health, DC Fast Charging should be limited to three cycles of charging (Low Light to 80%) per day throughout the year.

I suppose Toyotas advice is simple, which is what most people need. There are ways to reduce degredation but it requires more consideration than vast majority would care to bother with. 
 

 

[wivenhoe]

What EV Battery warranty do Toyota offer in the bz ? The launch info for the Lexus RZ (similar Battery as bz) said 90% at 10 years. After the range update (suspect because they reduced the buffer) it’s now ambiguous as it says warranty is for 8 years but with no %’age degradation. 

I can’t see anything in the warranty docs that requires any sort of charging regime or limits say regular DC charging to 100%.  The car does protect the Battery by limiting the times in 24 hrs the ultra DC charges can be used. If the battery is to be regularly charged to say max 80% to preserve the warranty, wouldn’t the car limit that charging. I know nothing about battery technology, but I am sure if regularly charging the battery to 100% on AC charges was detrimental to the battery then Toyota would have built in controls to police this. 

[Piccasso74]

14 hours ago, philip42h said:

Your original screenshot shows that you had so far covered 74 miles and then had a 50% charge with an estimated range of 114 miles:

There is no evidence from this screen shot that the car was originally charged to 100%. It has only covered 74 miles when a 50% charge should be sufficient for 114 miles of range so the simplest assumption would be that it wasn't fully charged from the outset.

If it was fully charged - and you say that you started with 100% charge - then you appear to have lost / used around 40 miles range as part of that initial usage. This could be through inefficient driving (high speed / hard acceleration), heavy use of the car's electrical systems while stationary or a combination of the two. Only you will know what actually happened ... 😉

Simple arithmetic would suggest to me that you actually set out with around an 80% charge - but I wasn't there!!!

 

1 hour ago, wivenhoe said:

What EV battery warranty do Toyota offer in the bz ? The launch info for the Lexus RZ (similar battery as bz) said 90% at 10 years. After the range update (suspect because they reduced the buffer) it’s now ambiguous as it says warranty is for 8 years but with no %’age degradation. 

I can’t see anything in the warranty docs that requires any sort of charging regime or limits say regular DC charging to 100%.  The car does protect the battery by limiting the times in 24 hrs the ultra DC charges can be used. If the battery is to be regularly charged to say max 80% to preserve the warranty, wouldn’t the car limit that charging. I know nothing about battery technology, but I am sure if regularly charging the battery to 100% on AC charges was detrimental to the battery then Toyota would have built in controls to police this. 

The truth is, my car arrived fully charged up to 100% due to waiting for the installation of a level 2 home charger, and I was disappointed by the lower mileage compared to the expectations within this model bz4x's range. I have now scheduled a Battery check appointment with Toyota. Hopefully they will sort it out. The big question is, what else will I do if they can't resolve this issue? 

[Piccasso74]

14 hours ago, philip42h said:

Your original screenshot shows that you had so far covered 74 miles and then had a 50% charge with an estimated range of 114 miles:

There is no evidence from this screen shot that the car was originally charged to 100%. It has only covered 74 miles when a 50% charge should be sufficient for 114 miles of range so the simplest assumption would be that it wasn't fully charged from the outset.

If it was fully charged - and you say that you started with 100% charge - then you appear to have lost / used around 40 miles range as part of that initial usage. This could be through inefficient driving (high speed / hard acceleration), heavy use of the car's electrical systems while stationary or a combination of the two. Only you will know what actually happened ... 😉

Simple arithmetic would suggest to me that you actually set out with around an 80% charge - but I wasn't there!!!

The truth is, my car arrived fully charged up to 100% due to waiting for the installation of a level 2 home charger, and I was disappointed by the lower mileage compared to the expectations within this model bz4x's range. I have now scheduled a Battery check appointment with Toyota. Hopefully they will sort it out. The big question is, what else will I do if they can't resolve this issue? 

[Piccasso74]

45 minutes ago, Piccasso74 said:

 

 

 

[G S]

18 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

What EV battery warranty do Toyota offer in the bz ? The launch info for the Lexus RZ (similar battery as bz) said 90% at 10 years. After the range update (suspect because they reduced the buffer) it’s now ambiguous as it says warranty is for 8 years but with no %’age degradation. 

I can’t see anything in the warranty docs that requires any sort of charging regime or limits say regular DC charging to 100%.  The car does protect the battery by limiting the times in 24 hrs the ultra DC charges can be used. If the battery is to be regularly charged to say max 80% to preserve the warranty, wouldn’t the car limit that charging. I know nothing about battery technology, but I am sure if regularly charging the battery to 100% on AC charges was detrimental to the battery then Toyota would have built in controls to police this. 

I agree with you. The manufacturer providing the warranty is the person I will take guidance from on charging. I have never tried ultra fast charge more than 3 times in a day but I suspect the system will just say no and therefore protects the Battery for you. 

I just plug in and charge when I need it and get it serviced on schedule, if the Battery fails for any reason then I have followed manufacturers advice and will let them sort it. Being a company car on a 3 year lease, it will be long gone before it gets to 8 years/  xxx miles

I am not saying Battery degradation is not a real thing  it is, but I suspect it is not as much as a deal as people like to make out. A lot of my journeys start at 100% and I get home on less than 10%, sometimes as little as 3%. If I had to spend the extra time at additional chargers that it would take to constantly be between 20% and 80% plus the cost involved I would not be driving a EV.

[wivenhoe]

Piccaso74 - show the screen shot you posted to the dealer. He will no doubt explain to you how a forecast range to go of 114 miles with the Battery at 50% is really in line with expectations - a real world ange of 228 miles you didn’t say what the forecast range was when you charged to 100% - but you did say driving 9 miles only took 4% which is a total range of 225 miles so why do you think there is something wrong with the Battery ?