Will I ever like my Icon CVT

[Wheelyscott]

Evening all, I've had my Icon 2.0 for a month now and well, just cant get used to it!! I've had manual VW / Skoda / Seat diesel cars for the last 25 years and wanted something different so that i wouldn't compare. I've always been struck by the quality of Toyota so had narrowed my choice of new vehicle down to a Mazda CX30 Skyactive X( 2l) or Corolla. I did indeed reserve a CX30 at Motorpoint and then cancelled in favour of the Icon as i knew the ride quality would be more favourable on the 16" rims of the corolla. It has enough spec for me. I test drove an Excel and loved the extras but they weren't worth an additional £3k.

The build quality is great and bodywork too and with 60mpg who would complain. I just cant get used to firstly not having a manual gearbox but then the CVT clearly doesn't work in the same way as a conventional automatic. Its great around village and town and being the 2l, does have some extra BHP and response, particularly in sport mode. What i find weird is when i get out onto the motorway and having to give it some welly it just doesn't feel like any other car i have driven. There is an awful drone noise at 1900 revs, in any configuration / EV mode. I've tried the sequential gearing / paddles and its marginally better on the motorway but i understand its only pretend anyway - is this true?

Perhaps this is the price to pay for a rushed test drive.

The car provides a lot of typical Japanese quality and apart from the pathetically small ventilation controls / buttons, it has everything you need. I just wonder if i will ever get used to driving it...I'm still looking back to motor-point and auto-trader for that Mazda. Funnily enough the Mazda sales guy said CVT's were awful which i guess he would do being another manufacturer altogether. Enough of my waffling, be good to know if others have had similar experience and whether it is worth persevering. Cheers 

[forkingabout]

You will get used to it eventually once you have adjusted your driving style to suit a Toyota hybrid.

I owned a CVT equipped Rover Metro many many years ago so I knew roughly the CVT noise experience I would get from buying a Toyota hybrid with E-CVT.

I've lost count of the amount of different petrol / diesel vehicles both manual & auto I've driven or owned over the years. 

I wouldn't bother with the flappy paddles, why buy an automatic & then still change your own " artificial " gears? Stick it in D & just drive the thing.

Missus has had 2 x petrol manual cars then bought a Yaris Cross hybrid earlier this year, didn't take her long to get used to the auto way of life, just rev & go. 

 

[Obsidian Estate]

I'm happy with my Corolla. I came from sporty manual cars (200 GT RCZ and a GT86) so thought I'd miss manual, but I don't. It makes day to day driving easy.

[badlywornroy]

Wheelyscott,

I am in a similar place with my 2022 Corolla 1.8 Design. Purchased from a Toyota dealer just 2 months ago with 7,000 miles done. It is immaculate . . . . but I guess I do regret buying it ?  I too have driven VW Group diesel vehicles for the last 15 years, I traded in a 2020 Golf estate with 30,000 miles for this Corolla. First & foremost I do not like the ride. This Design spec rides on 17" wheels and on poor broken surfaces I feel every imperfection. Maybe on 'premium' tyres it will improve ? Yes I had a test ride but I guess the Toyota sales guide kept me on good surfaces ? I never thought to suggest we ride on some bad roads. Call me a miserable ' old git ' but I find all the ' tech ' on this car annoying and some of it totally unnecessary. The lack of storage space and ' cubby holes ' on this Toyota is also pretty poor. I drove a Skoda Yeti for many years (a great little car) with so much storage space compared to the Corolla. The engine noise and ' motorway' drone I hope to learn to tolerate / ignore. I did have a month to exchange it at the same dealer but . . . .  here is the catch . . . my wife loves it 😍  Yep ! my money purchased it but I haven't admitted to my beloved my thoughts on this car, she certainly knows I am not enamoured but I am keeping quiet and will accept her enjoyment of the car as some recompense.

[sportse]

They are different to ordinary gearboxes, but ok once you get used to them. 
 

if you set the accelerator position and hold it, the revs will be stable and the speed will catch up. Rather than a normal car that accelerates quickly to start and then drops off, the Toyotas keep the same acceleration. It can feel slow but isn’t, it’s just a different feeling. Similarly if you floor the accelerator there is a delay, so it’s better to use progressive accelerator if you want more. 
 

I mostly drive mine in normal mode on the motorway as it’s quieter/more relaxing. Sport mode is too quick to rev up. 
 

I came from a VW DSG automatic, the feel on those is much different to Toyotas. 

[TonyHSD]

These cars if you don’t love them at first sight when you have tried them even you drive two life’s you still not gonna like them, there is no other way around. 
Toyota hybrids no matter engine size or bhp all drives the same and they are not suitable for high speed and high load applications.
They are the best for slow, easy and and relaxed driving style.  
Fast motorways, high hills, quick accelerations and twisty roads forget it. Also not suitable for aggressive driving. Police in London hates them while I believe finally police has the best cars for town patrol. 
For all of you that don’t get used  to from day one I promise you you will never do and best way is to exchange for something different like you have had before or go electric, you may be surprised how fast those cars can go. 

[forkingabout]

23 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Police in London hates them 

The Police are certainly good at smashing them up in accidents 😉

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Fast motorways, high hills, quick accelerations and twisty roads forget it. Also not suitable for aggressive driving.

I dunno, I find my Yaris hybrid is pretty good for hooning around on a sunday    

 

I think if you're coming from a manual and esp. a turbo-diesel it won't feel as impressive, and when I got mine I kept hurting my left leg, going for a non-existent clutch, and it's took a while to undo nearly 20 years of muscle-memory  

I went from a lovely Yaris Mk1 D4D to a less lovely Mk2 Yaris petrol to the Mk4 hybrid which, I think if I'd gone straight from the Mk1 diesel I wouldn't have been as enamoured with it, but compared to the Mk2 petrol it's like a rocket ship  

 

[Mojo1010]

Came from 6 years of TDI before a MK3 Yaris hybrid, which is much worse than the corolla in terms of power and handling. Wanted auto hybrid so it was a compromise. Now got a newer gen4, like it much more, much improved. At least you have the 2.0 version, you would have hated the 1.8.

[J2024IE]

4 hours ago, Wheelyscott said:

Evening all, I've had my Icon 2.0 for a month now and well, just cant get used to it!! I've had manual VW / Skoda / Seat diesel cars for the last 25 years and wanted something different so that i wouldn't compare. I've always been struck by the quality of Toyota so had narrowed my choice of new vehicle down to a Mazda CX30 Skyactive X( 2l) or Corolla. I did indeed reserve a CX30 at Motorpoint and then cancelled in favour of the Icon as i knew the ride quality would be more favourable on the 16" rims of the corolla. It has enough spec for me. I test drove an Excel and loved the extras but they weren't worth an additional £3k.

The build quality is great and bodywork too and with 60mpg who would complain. I just cant get used to firstly not having a manual gearbox but then the CVT clearly doesn't work in the same way as a conventional automatic. Its great around village and town and being the 2l, does have some extra BHP and response, particularly in sport mode. What i find weird is when i get out onto the motorway and having to give it some welly it just doesn't feel like any other car i have driven. There is an awful drone noise at 1900 revs, in any configuration / EV mode. I've tried the sequential gearing / paddles and its marginally better on the motorway but i understand its only pretend anyway - is this true?

Perhaps this is the price to pay for a rushed test drive.

The car provides a lot of typical Japanese quality and apart from the pathetically small ventilation controls / buttons, it has everything you need. I just wonder if i will ever get used to driving it...I'm still looking back to motor-point and auto-trader for that Mazda. Funnily enough the Mazda sales guy said CVT's were awful which i guess he would do being another manufacturer altogether. Enough of my waffling, be good to know if others have had similar experience and whether it is worth persevering. Cheers 

it takes a bit of time to get used to driving the hybrid;  having owned the Corolla TS, and now Rav4, the Corolla was fine, engine was a bit noisy.      on motorways i used the sport mode when overtaking for faster response, otherwise i used normal mode. on the motorway i could be doing 110kph in the corolla, with engine running at 1300rpm, however doing 30kph uphill sometimes engine was at 3600rpm, sometimes i could ease off slightly on accelerator reducing revs, and maintain same speed. this was a 1.8 Corolla TS.

have a look at the toyota website, they have some  tips / guides on driving a hybrid,

the Rav4 is different,  it has more sound proofing, and the engine is a lot quieter.

it took me some time go get used to the hybrid, after driving automatics for many years.

 

[sportse]

Most of my driving is 70mph motorway, they’re fine with that just occasionally noisy climbing hills. 
 

if you drive to 80% performance they are much better. The facelift is programmed to do that, most of the time you are accelerating at just into the power band. It’s a fixed place on the meter that the car goes to. There’s not too much noise and good performance. If you override that by pressing even harder then you get more noise. 
 

when joining the motorway from a slip road and having to go 10-70mph as quickly as possible, you just put the accelerator all the way down and hold it until you get to 70mph. It makes noise but only until you reach 70. 
 

I'm driving 25k mostly motorway miles every year with no problem, having come from both petrol and diesels. 
 

60mph country roads are also no problem. Just drive to 80% and roll the accelerator on and there’s no issue. If you try and floor it out of corners it will be frustrating as there is a delay before you get the power, but it’s faster to roll on the acceleration and not try and get every last bit of performance. 

[Flatcoat]

Having owned over 50 (yes, really) cars of many brands in my driving life to date I can probably bring more than some to this conversation. Having started with diesels in 1986 with a Passat 1.6D non turbo I stuck pretty much with diesels for my daily driver (going to DSG and autos about 12 years ago) until buying my RAV PHEV 3 years ago. I also tow so have that to factor in to my car choices. Many of my cars were from VAG brands. The last being a 2013 Passat Alltrack 2.0tdi DSG. I swapped that in for a Volvo D60 D6 PHEV in 2020. Rubbish reliability but fabulous auto box. We decided post Covid to drop to one car and treat ourselves to a new car. Going from 35 years of diesels to a petrol hybrid eCVT was going to be quite a change. After 38,000 miles in just under 3 years I wouldn’t change back to diesel nor would I want to lose the Toyota hybrid tech. We drive short local journeys, long commute once a week, tow the length and breadth of the UK and into Europe. Drive solo to Scottish highlands and into Europe which can include long high speed stints on derestricted autobahns. Funnily enough I had a new Corolla courtesy car last week, very impressed. Would I swap to another brand? Yes, but only because Toyota have changed the towing spec of the RAV PHEV so it no longer meets our needs. My advice is to stick with it, don’t try and drive it like a diesel, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. 

[yossarian247]

Perhaps its an age-thing..

In my teens, 20s and 30s I hated automatics and wouldn't touch one with a bargepole, in my 40s I could tolerate automatics if given one as a hire/courtesy car but would never have bought one, now in my 50s I love automatics and wouldn't go back to a manual if you paid me 😆

[Flatcoat]

Tech has marched on, my first auto experience was with a Rover 820 with 3 speed slush box. Terrible. Next came a diesel Citroen XM which was getting better and had an early crude element of electronics in the auto box. It was only when DSG came along I got into autos. Still like pudding stirring with a gear stick but that needs to be attached to the right car! 

[yossarian247]

5 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Tech has marched on, my first auto experience was with a Rover 820 with 3 speed slush box. Terrible. Next came a diesel Citroen XM which was getting better and had an early crude element of electronics in the auto box. It was only when DSG came along I got into autos. Still like pudding stirring with a gear stick but that needs to be attached to the right car! 

I remember borrowing a friends Rover 827 auto years ago and it was like driving something with the clutch slipping. Quite a powerful engine for the time, but it felt like about half of the power was being sapped by the gearbox!

[Wheelyscott]

Thanks to all for your comments, a good and helpful mix of views!

[Mojo1010]

24 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

Perhaps its an age-thing..

In my teens, 20s and 30s I hated automatics and wouldn't touch one with a bargepole, in my 40s I could tolerate automatics if given one as a hire/courtesy car but would never have bought one, now in my 50s I love automatics and wouldn't go back to a manual if you paid me 😆

Call me old, I love auto from my early 20's!! Had a corolla 1.6 auto executive gls for 5 years.

[taxidriver50005]

Took me about 6 months to get to grips with my prius, coming from turbo diesel the lack of torque was massive. 

Once I'd changed my mindset into being smooth instead of fast it all changed, you will struggle to find anything that can drive as smoothly as Toyota hybrid. 

[Dylanfan]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:33 AM, taxidriver50005 said:

Took me about 6 months to get to grips with my prius, coming from turbo diesel the lack of torque was massive. 

Once I'd changed my mindset into being smooth instead of fast it all changed, you will struggle to find anything that can drive as smoothly as Toyota hybrid. 

Agreed, smooth = fast, just don’t floor it, lean on the pedal and the car just picks up speed.

[taxidriver50005]

Only just noticed you have 2.0.... They drive great especially compared to 1.8...so if your struggling with 2.0 you would already have sold 1.8...just give it time and you won't go back. 

[2badmice]

On 9/22/2024 at 9:26 PM, TonyHSD said:

These cars if you don’t love them at first sight when you have tried them even you drive two life’s you still not gonna like them, there is no other way around. 
Toyota hybrids no matter engine size or bhp all drives the same and they are not suitable for high speed and high load applications.
They are the best for slow, easy and and relaxed driving style.  
Fast motorways, high hills, quick accelerations and twisty roads forget it. Also not suitable for aggressive driving. Police in London hates them while I believe finally police has the best cars for town patrol. 
For all of you that don’t get used  to from day one I promise you you will never do and best way is to exchange for something different like you have had before or go electric, you may be surprised how fast those cars can go. 

I have a 2.0 Design and disagree, this thing can fly like sh off a shovel if it wants.  

 

It feels chauffeur-like when going at a steady pace and my eco score reminds me, but when I need to drive like I am a boy racer, it delivers in sport mode.  It never hesitates when joining motorway traffic and the race from a standstill at the lights still makes me grin from ear to ear.  Even though the driver in the car to my left or right has no idea what's going on LOL.

 

For me, space and practicality are the worst features and it is frustrating when carrying more than 6 shopping bags or going on a trip with my family.  

I have no issue with the engine noise either, all cars groan when lashed, I just think we perceive it differently and forget when we are in a different car.

You will come to love your Corolla.

 

[First_Toyota]

This is a really interesting discussion, and does ultimately come down to personal preference and, I think, driving style.

I’ve only ever driven automatic because of a disability, and I’ve seen the evolution of them from three-speed torque converter ‘slush boxes’ through to 4 and then 5 speed, DSG, and CVT and eCVT. I’ve owned multiple Mini (original) automatics (actually quite a fun experience, if not fast!), still own a BMW MINI CVT that I’ve had for twenty years now from new in 2004, and I’ve had Renault, Hyundai, multiple Hondas, VW, multiple Lexus…quite a few different types, manufacturers and approaches.

Anyway, having owned three Lexus eCVT in a row, I’m a fan. Why is that? As others have said, it’s a smooth and seamless experience…as long as you drive it smoothly and aren’t looking to drive ‘aggressively.’ Understanding that gradual acceleration works well is key. Stamp on the throttle and it doesn’t suit the arrangement. As a relaxed driver it suits me perfectly.

I should take delivery of my new Toyota CH-R next week. I drove models from all sorts of different manufacturers when choosing, and specifically ended up with a Toyota BECAUSE of the eCVT and how much I like it. Going back to VW group DSG (and the Volvo/BMW equivalents) I was reminded how jerky and hesitant they are. However, they do have more of a traditional ‘kick-down.’ The VW and Skoda dealers expressed surprise at my feedback, although interestingly the Volvo dealer said he heard that quite a lot but that you ‘get used to how to drive it most effectively.’ I think that’s fair, and I think the OP is in exactly that place with the eCVT. The question is whether you think you WANT to adapt your driving style or not. I wasn’t willing to live with the compromises of the DSG and alter my driving at this point. Some people will, others won’t.

Accepting I was a victim of the VAG DSG reliability debacle - mine exploded at 40k miles on the M1 with such force that it blew a hole in the gearbox casing and seized, also damaging transfer boxes and the engine. When it was recovered for replacement under warranty just my local dealer had five others awaiting new gearboxes. Back order was 7 months then, such were the numbers failing. Accepting that was then and this is now (I’m assured they’re more reliable although a relative had a newish Skoda Octavia where the DSG failed at 25k miles) the other factor for me has to be reliability. The eCVTs I’ve had have been bulletproof. That means a lot to me.

[Flatcoat]

The DSG failures generally applied to the dry clutch versions. Wet clutch DSG are pretty reliable providing they have fluid and filter changes every 40k miles. I ran my Passat with DSG to 120k miles including extensive caravan towing, no problems. The auto box on my Volvo was sublime, especially after having it Polestar remapped. Audi’s foray into Cvt was a disaster and such equipped cars to be avoided. 

[MC1216]

I disagree the DSG in VW is jerky as i have one in a performance VW Golf and 32000 miles it's never been an issue and the benefit is i can also drive it in different modes depending on my journey...Drive/Sport or even Manual.

As above most failures were dry clutch DSG not wet 7 speed.

My Toyota eCVT is great around town but mash the pedal and it does have issues with an increase in noise but feather the accelerator and it's fine.

I find the best automatic boxes i have driven is the ZF8 in BMW and i also find the old fashion torque convertor in my mother's CX30 a joy...it seems to give the best of both world's...smooth around town and dosen't scream it's head off if you mash the pedal.

 

[First_Toyota]

5 minutes ago, MC1216 said:

I disagree the DSG in VW is jerky as i have one in a performance VW Golf and 32000 miles it's never been an issue and the benefit is i can also drive it in different modes depending on my journey...Drive/Sport or even Manual.

As I said personal taste. I test drove the latest DSG Golf and the equivalent Skoda and found it really jerky and hesitant…but glad you don’t!