PHEV : Has anyone ever used CHG mode?

[Maxrob]

On our longest journeys from Cornwall to London, I'll use Auto, then, about 50 miles or so before the ULEZ boundary, I'll be "public spirited" if you like, I'll pop it into CHG, and then be able to potter round London in EV - thus reserving my place in Heaven!!!

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Maxrob said:

On our longest journeys from Cornwall to London, I'll use Auto, then, about 50 miles or so before the ULEZ boundary, I'll be "public spirited" if you like, I'll pop it into CHG, and then be able to potter round London in EV - thus reserving my place in Heaven!!!

That seems fair TBH. Towns and cities polluted to high heaven from car exhausts. Very high pollution density. Read some figures recently about the number of asthma and related deaths linked to car fumes.

[Cyker]

The problem is it's mostly lies or 'statistics', manipulated to further an agenda - If it was that bad, people would literally be dropping dead every day on the tube; The level of particulates is mid-100s to low 1000's higher than the worst polluted areas on the surface!!  

Anyone who's sneezed after taking a tube journey will know...

[Nick72]

2 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The problem is it's mostly lies or 'statistics', manipulated to further an agenda - If it was that bad, people would literally be dropping dead every day on the tube; The level of particulates is mid-100s to low 1000's higher than the worst polluted areas on the surface!!  

Anyone who's sneezed after taking a tube journey will know...

Well I can't comment on the tube, molecular species concentrations and types, or exposure durations etc.  but the scientific evidence is pretty clear above ground. People are dropping dead.

Personal experience only, we used to live on a main road. Both daughter and I got very sick. It was narrowed down to air pollution. She developed chronic asthma which massively improved from hospital admission once a month to not at all after we moved. When I'm in London and I blow my nose when I get back to the hotel it's full of black soot and I'm starting to wheeze. A former boss of mine had to go to hospital whilst we were in London together because he was struggling to breathe with the air pollution. So I think whilst there's a majority that are largely unaffected in the short to medium term at least, there is still a sizeable percentage that are affected in a serious way in the short term. 

Particulate pollution and specific gases are a real problem. 

[Cyker]

I'd say that's more true of central London but definitely not the case of the rest of London. Either way the tube is much worse but they won't do a thing about it because it costs money, whereas the ULEZ makes them money.

Also, in an interesting inversion, I've lived in London all my life, and used to have asthma when I was a child, but grew out of it in my early teens!

[Flatcoat]

23 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Well I can't comment on the tube, molecular species concentrations and types, or exposure durations etc.  but the scientific evidence is pretty clear above ground. People are dropping dead.

Personal experience only, we used to live on a main road. Both daughter and I got very sick. It was narrowed down to air pollution. She developed chronic asthma which massively improved from hospital admission once a month to not at all after we moved. When I'm in London and I blow my nose when I get back to the hotel it's full of black soot and I'm starting to wheeze. A former boss of mine had to go to hospital whilst we were in London together because he was struggling to breathe with the air pollution. So I think whilst there's a majority that are largely unaffected in the short to medium term at least, there is still a sizeable percentage that are affected in a serious way in the short term. 

Particulate pollution and specific gases are a real problem. 

Where are people dropping dead? What is on their death certificate? Facts please! 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

Where are people dropping dead? What is on their death certificate? Facts please! 

Honest don't know where to start on answering this question.

Try Google scholar. I just did and 40 or 50 papers came up. Or try the BMJ or US NHI. Plenty there too. You'll be having Science papers coming out of all orifices.

But for popular news if that's your thing try.. one of a bazillion like this.. you can find the underlying research papers. Sorry I don't have any daily mail or Facebook news links.

Sorry also but the conspiracy theories about what 'they' wants you to think are just total garbage that folks fall for. What's next, climate change is not real or not human activity attributable? 🤣

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/10/vehicle-pollution-results-in-4m-child-asthma-cases-a-year

 

 

[ColinB]

We live on the outskirts of Portsmouth, my wife has asthma and has to use an inhaler daily. During a recent cruise to Norway she realised that she had forgotten to use it, but wasn't suffering from shortness of breath. Norway has really pushed the change to BEVs and it was noticeable that ICE cars were in the minority, whether it was that or a less densely populated country I'm not sure. 

[Oscarmax]

I cannot believe how people and are in denial hiding their heads in the sand, we have a problem with pollution especially in the inner cities, some of us have woken up and trying to do something about it, unfortunately any our generations has done can never be put right, but at least we can try.

 

[GBgraham]

30 minutes ago, Oscarmax said:

I cannot believe how people and are in denial hiding their heads in the sand, we have a problem with pollution especially in the inner cities, some of us have woken up and trying to do something about it, unfortunately any our generations has done can never be put right, but at least we can try.

 

Denial? Just like Khan is with the London Underground, for me I suffer far worse down there than what I breathe up on the streets with so called exhaust pollution, which btw the ULEZ seems to have made no marginal difference except to his coffers!

[Oscarmax]

34 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

Denial? Just like Khan is with the London Underground, for me I suffer far worse down there than what I breathe up on the streets with so called exhaust pollution, which btw the ULEZ seems to have made no marginal difference except to his coffers!

Khan is not interested in pollution, just himself.

[Nick72]

5 hours ago, GBgraham said:

Denial? Just like Khan is with the London Underground, for me I suffer far worse down there than what I breathe up on the streets with so called exhaust pollution, which btw the ULEZ seems to have made no marginal difference except to his coffers!

Must admit the tube is pretty bad. But some lines are much better than others. 

[Cyker]

9 hours ago, ColinB said:

We live on the outskirts of Portsmouth, my wife has asthma and has to use an inhaler daily. During a recent cruise to Norway she realised that she had forgotten to use it, but wasn't suffering from shortness of breath. Norway has really pushed the change to BEVs and it was noticeable that ICE cars were in the minority, whether it was that or a less densely populated country I'm not sure. 

To be fair, all the Scandinavian countries have always been like that - Even before they switched to BEVs. The cities less so, but still their far lower population density in general helps.

 

7 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

I cannot believe how people and are in denial hiding their heads in the sand, we have a problem with pollution especially in the inner cities, some of us have woken up and trying to do something about it, unfortunately any our generations has done can never be put right, but at least we can try.

 

We're not in denial, we're just hacked off at that line being used as an excuse to screw us over repeatedly.

By all metrics, the ULEZ extension has made little to no difference to pollution, esp. the 2nd extension. The disruption and hardship it has created is massively disproportionate to the little to no benefits it has produced.

Meanwhile, things that *would* make a substantial improvement to pollution are NOT done because it would cost too much!

We are just being targeted as we are the low-hanging fruit and they can make money out of us: Everything they have done has been to generate revenue, with any environmental side-effects of that a small bonus.

Do you know that, while we've been shafted with all these punitive measures, diesel taxies and buses are *still* driving around most of London and are by far the most polluting things on the road now. Even HGVs don't stink as bad as they do - They are the only vehicle I need to switch to recirc on the HVAC - I can literally smell if a bus has been past in the past few minutes! But no sign of those going away anytime soon.

Yet we know buses are the greatest source of pollution in London - That time busses went on strike showed a massive improvement in air quality in London!

This one rule for us and one rule for them is the kind of hypocrisy that is doing more harm than good in the battle to clean up the environment but turning people against it!

It's all been about screwing money out of an easy target - Drivers. They're just using the environment as an excuse, even knowing how little effect it would have.

 

[ernieb]

On 9/30/2024 at 7:37 PM, Cyker said:

The problem is it's mostly lies or 'statistics', manipulated to further an agenda - If it was that bad, people would literally be dropping dead every day on the tube; The level of particulates is mid-100s to low 1000's higher than the worst polluted areas on the surface!!  

Anyone who's sneezed after taking a tube journey will know...

The tube is mostly a terrible place to be, hot, airless, dirty and full of bugs and insects that exists no where else.

The problems with the drive to reduce emissions and improve safety is that things like speed reduction in urban areas is that the pollution is increasing especially in areas with speed bumps e.g., outside schools.

[Rhymes with Paris]

I was on the racetrack errr... 2 lane urban city road earlier today in order to pick up a ready meal,sad I know.

Anyhoo the usual thing happened,in the outer lane a cleaning company estate car/taxi/Uber registered in Wolverhampton/clattering old transit pickup got in the outside lane at the red traffic light to get a racing start to then get in the inside line to go straight on at the next traffic light a couple of hundred yards away with the right turn, when they are going straight on.

The pollution bit comes in when the racer has to cut in behind the worst smoking diesel land rover type thing I have ever seen.

The clouds coming from this thing were blocking out the sky, the racer had to tuck in right behind it to go straight on , I hope they had the recirculating on before getting a lung full of that stuff.

I've had diesels, but would not let them get into that state,no doubt would fail emissions at MOT, but what happens in between those.

 

[Cyker]

I see that with the busses! I swear the MOT is supposed to fail anything with a DPF if it emits visible smoke now, but apparently busses are exempt from this??

47 minutes ago, ernieb said:

The tube is mostly a terrible place to be, hot, airless, dirty and full of bugs and insects that exists no where else.

The problems with the drive to reduce emissions and improve safety is that things like speed reduction in urban areas is that the pollution is increasing especially in areas with speed bumps e.g., outside schools.

Yup, they say they want to reduce pollution but then do everything they can to make congestion worse - Lower speed limits without adjusting light timings, speed humps on fast roads, LTNs etc..

The LTNs especially have made congestion much worse as there's nowhere to escape if there's an incident or even just a traffic jam, and it's also concentrated the pollution much more along the remaining routes.

 

[Nick72]

Just on this air pollution topic, what kind of cabin air filters is the RAV fitted with? HEPA? HEPA and carbon? None of the above?

[Cyker]

I think they are just a standard concertina paper/cotton element filter with a slight static charge.

You can get a carbon one from the dealer (They'll even substitute it in the service for a bit extra) but the unit isn't sealed well enough to be HEPA-rated.

(It just goes into a slot, no rubber seals or any kind of air-tight seal around it!)

[ernieb]

I replaced the filter with a Bosch filter which is multi layered and has a carbon layer, I used a Holts bomb before I changed them over. (In fact I took the old one out and then used the sanitizer bomb) The cost quoted for cleaning the system by Toyota was out of this world and for re gassing which I didn’t think needed doing. Thierry price was stupid and then the sales guy started to negotiate it down until he asked ‘what was I prepared to pay’ I offered him a stupid price and he smiled and walked away threaten with ‘this will come up again next year’.

The original one looked like just paper?

[Nick72]

That's a shame. Not hard to put a HEPA into the design with rubber seals. I mean you can buy them from Amazon for home air purifiers for 20 quid.

[Oscarmax]

The local bus service in our rural area is abysmal either the bus are broken down or bellowing smoke out some are over 20 years old. 

[ernieb]

53 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

That's a shame. Not hard to put a HEPA into the design with rubber seals. I mean you can buy them from Amazon for home air purifiers for 20 quid.

Agreed, but it does have a layer of treatment, whilst I didn’t buy it from this link it does give a good description and feel it will be significantly better than the standard Toyota fit.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-A8581-anti-odour-anti-bacterial-effective/dp/B0B99HG7SG?th=1

[GBgraham]

On 9/28/2024 at 11:33 PM, Nick72 said:

I've got some long road trips coming so I'll give it a go.

Although it's healthy to have a moan about the unhealthy state of what we breath but can we get back to the original thread guy's.

Nick I'm curious to know if you have done any tests on long trips yet?

I very rarely get chance to do any long uninterrupted motor way trips but the odd time (maybe twice) I have tried this I reckoned the loss of the MPG was not worth engaging the CHG mode.

I found if you engage CHG at lower speeds then the engine revs increase for extra loading of the recharge, so yes you would expect the consumption to increase but when cruising the motorway at say the max speed limit so I would expect the recharge to be more cost effective?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Agreed, but it does have a layer of treatment, whilst I didn’t buy it from this link it does give a good description and feel it will be significantly better than the standard Toyota fit.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-A8581-anti-odour-anti-bacterial-effective/dp/B0B99HG7SG?th=1

Cheers Ernie 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, GBgraham said:

Although it's healthy to have a moan about the unhealthy state of what we breath but can we get back to the original thread guy's.

Nick I'm curious to know if you have done any tests on long trips yet?

I very rarely get chance to do any long uninterrupted motor way trips but the odd time (maybe twice) I have tried this I reckoned the loss of the MPG was not worth engaging the CHG mode.

I found if you engage CHG at lower speeds then the engine revs increase for extra loading of the recharge, so yes you would expect the consumption to increase but when cruising the motorway at say the max speed limit so I would expect the recharge to be more cost effective?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not tried it yet but it's on my to do list so I can compare and contrast. Good shout. Will report back.