Toyota Home Charge and Charging Questions

[philip42h]

OK, I decided to stop just lurking here and order a bZ4X. Ordered Monday, it's currently at Burnaston and delivery is due October / November ... 🤞

I will get the free Toyota Home Charge unit and have had the initial email from Hive. When a go to "Complete my order>" and add the charger to my basket it comes with a price tag of £1095. Should I have had a "voucher code" from my dealer or does the price drop to something more reasonable (i.e. £0) later in the process?

I am well aware that I may not see an installation for several months and will have to survive on the "granny" charger for some time.

And that's OK because I am retired, most of my journeys are local and day trips that take me more than 100 miles away from home are relatively few. But when we go to visit family I will also need to schedule stops at rapid chargers in order to get home again. Do bZ4X owners have views / recommendations as to which charger networks / apps are better / worth avoiding?

I've had a theoretical play with ZapMap and I need more practice using it but it seems happy to direct me to somewhere with a single charger which may or may not be working even if it is available. So, I guess I'm looking for 'larger' charging stations that are well maintained to improve my chances ...

[wivenhoe]

If you subscribe to ZapMap you can filter to only get the charger you want - only Ultra or all chargers at 50kw or faster, with more than 1 charger, only certain operators, etc. You can have it in Apple CarPlay and it will show availability and then you can get it to navigate to an available charger using Maps or Google. 
 

[philip42h]

On 10/2/2024 at 3:52 PM, philip42h said:

I will get the free Toyota Home Charge unit and have had the initial email from Hive. When a go to "Complete my order>" and add the charger to my basket it comes with a price tag of £1095. Should I have had a "voucher code" from my dealer or does the price drop to something more reasonable (i.e. £0) later in the process?

Answering my own question ... yes, I needed a voucher code! 😉

[philip42h]

Do bZ4X drivers use the Toyota Charging Network? Is it worth signing up when compared with the other networks / apps?

I'm looking for any recommendations of what works ... 🙂

[Mister Mike]

I don’t do much long distance travel, so it wasn’t much use to me. I got the free 6 month trial, but cancelled it when they wanted to start taking monthly payments.

Since then I’ve downloaded the Octopus Electroverse app, which works with multiple charging networks and doesn’t cost anything.

[G S]

I do loads of long journeys, I have not bothered with the Toyota Charging Network. I have about 5 apps on my phone that seem to cover it.

I also can't really be bothered with the whole planning of charging with Zap Map, normally I just tend to use google maps and after I have put in the route I am driving, I just search for chargers along the route. Not had an issue yet in normal travelling around the UK (involving motorway services or main A roads). However, if I am going to more remote places (like west Cornwall or West Wales) I do plan a bit more carefully.

[Kopper Bopper]

you should have a code from your dealership to enter into the hive website 

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, Kopper Bopper said:

you should have a code from your dealership to enter into the hive website 

Cheers. Yes, I got the voucher code, and I've submitted my pictures and am now on day 6 of waiting for them to get back to me within two working days. 🙂

[Kopper Bopper]

try chasing them up if not contact Toyota and they will try and move it along for you 

i was the same took pics and waited ..... and like you said within 2 working days it never happened 

it was a very popular uptake on the charger but give Toyota their due they have been very helpful (I've had a problem with my charger (see other post))  and they have been brilliant even calling me with ideas to keep me charged 

im very lucky that i know a thing about tech and its a learning game for myself and also Toyota me noting down when its charging the car or not at first we thought it was the car, that's been checked so only other thing was the charger and that was changed today (9th) so it will be more testing at my end and relaying it back to Toyota  

[Kopper Bopper]

as for the Granny charger unless your on a EV tariff 

you are better taken it to a fast charger i know not ideal mines is a 40 mile round trip but i do go to town for shopping etc and on the days i need to charge have a breakfast while its charging again im lucky enough that im retired and can do that not if your a working person or have a family 

[philip42h]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:03 PM, Kopper Bopper said:

as for the Granny charger unless your on a EV tariff 

you are better taken it to a fast charger i know not ideal mines is a 40 mile round trip but i do go to town for shopping etc and on the days i need to charge have a breakfast while its charging again im lucky enough that im retired and can do that not if your a working person or have a family 

I'm retired too so have those freedoms. If I charge over many hours using the granny charger at home, it will cost around 24p per kWh (~8p per mile). If I go to a local fast / Type 2 charger it will cost from 44p per kWh (~15p per mile) and up to 85p per kWh (28p per mile).

The cost per mile isn't the be all and end all, but it's costing me only 12p per mile to burn petrol in the RAV4 so a little patience and planning will pay dividends.

I'm currently on a "fixed just below SVT" until next May and I'll investigate EV tariffs then. I'm not betting that Hive will have installed my Toyota Home Charge unit by then anyway! (I phoned to 'chase' yesterday to be told that they had my photos and would be in touch in due course, without any indication of when that might be ... 🤷‍♂️)

[Steve Mog]

Hope you got this sorted out, my Toyota dealer back in June didn't understand Toyota had to give me a promotional code and took the about a week to get one from Toyota. I would have thought that they would have worked tis out by now. Just a warning after finally ordering it did take Hive 14 weeks to finally install my charger and I think if I hadn't rang their EV team on a weekly basis I would still be waiting. Had the charger for 3 weeks now and fingers crossed its working fine.

[Lesmo]

So my journey so far with the charger install.  I ordered the car on the 28th September, ordered the car which had arrived for the showroom a week earlier.  was given a link and code to order the charger that day.

Ordered charger with code and extra 5mtr cable [not sure I will ever need it but hey I have it]  Total price paid was £159 which I have paid.

Got an email about an hour later asking for Photos which I ran around getting and posting up including doing the plan [rather proud of that]

Two days later email to book the second call - this is now 30th September.  Clicked on the available first date 19th November.

As had the Friday off booked the 22nd November made sense so I have booked that.  I now wait with anticipation for the next date.  I am expecting it will finally get installed in January.   In the meantime as I collected the car on the 5th October I am using the good old 3 pin connection to charge it.  

 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Lesmo said:

So my journey so far with the charger install

Another postcode lottery then ... 😉

Ordered the car 30th Sep. Got code and ordered the charger from Hive 3rd Oct (and ordered the extra cable that I probably don't want!). Submitted photos same day, 3rd Oct.

Then nothing for two weeks ... Got a text message 17th Oct to say:

Hello! Thank you for your recent EV charger order. Good news, to get you installed as quickly as possible, we've arranged for one of our approved install partners to fit your charger. Our install partner will be in touch very soon. They'll review your install requirements, which may involve a short home survey or extra photos, before booking a fitting date to suit your schedule. Thanks, EV support team.

I've no idea who the approved install partner might be let alone how to get in touch with them so back to just waiting again.

The car turned up at the dealer on 9th Oct and I'm due to take delivery on Thursday 24th Oct but Toyota Finance 'fails' when I try to sign the paperwork so that may or may not happen! 😞 

Oh, and Toyota are very keen on feedback on my "Toyota purchase experience" even though I haven't quite managed to purchase one yet! I don't think that they really want the feedback that I'm currently likely to give. 🙂 

[cviclark]

My Toyota charger installed by Hive today.  Very neat and tidy job. Slight probelem with the solor panel integration which I think was due to a sticky relay in the inverter, BG fitter persevered and got it working. 

Connection to the car is a pain compared to the the 13A home charger. The wall box has to be linked to the My Toyota app then connected, locked and Authorised, a delay, then told to start charge then another delay and if lucky it may start charging. It appears to be a 1 in 4 chance at the moment. The tag authorisation is even more hit and miss.

On the 13 A plug In switch on mains, hear it lock, green light a walk away. simple.  Wall charger in the cold and rain (today) was very frustrating.  Not sure if its the app, the charger software or just a learning curve for me. I have 60 years experience with complex electronics other will give up.  Why the dependance on a mobile phone? it should be power up switch on lock and go.

The fitter who has been Toyota only wall chargers for months was as frustrated as me.  He linked the tag, Which worked first time, and so far the last. Then showed me how to use the app to start it but admitted it was problematic and a slow process.  The cable is also very heavy but it is nice and long.

In bad weather I will be using the 13A from my garage.

[wivenhoe]

Since last year all chargers have to be smart - before starting they have to establish a link to the supply and receive the power system approval to start charging. This is to ensure there is enough available power in the network in order to ‘balance’ the network supply. I understand that’s why home chargers have to be connected to WiFi or have a sim. This also makes them susceptible to poor mobile signals. 

[cviclark]

This is North Wales the only time I could get a decent mobile signal was when Celebrity's were trying to get out. Since they got out no signal. Mobile phones maybe great devices but useless in this house.

Smart meters are dumb. They can't install fibre so wi fi is crap, but Toyota think mobiles in cars are a necessity  not an unnecessary distraction, to add to the cacophony of bongs over 20 mph. 

They are an unnecessary intrusion  and have no place when trying to concentrate on driving. 

 

[philip42h]

11 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Since last year all chargers have to be smart - before starting they have to establish a link to the supply and receive the power system approval to start charging. This is to ensure there is enough available power in the network in order to ‘balance’ the network supply. I understand that’s why home chargers have to be connected to WiFi or have a sim. This also makes them susceptible to poor mobile signals. 

Except that is not the whole truth. The standards state:

Quote

7.  A relevant charge point must be configured so that, in the event that it ceases to be connected to a communications network, it remains capable of charging an electric vehicle.

So it is required to fail to "useable" rather than "useless".

 

[0161]

How do you get the voucher code ? 4 weeks after getting the car we haven't had an email from Hive and can't get a reply to phone or email queries from the dealer (RRG Stockport!).

[philip42h]

28 minutes ago, 0161 said:

How do you get the voucher code ? 4 weeks after getting the car we haven't had an email from Hive and can't get a reply to phone or email queries from the dealer (RRG Stockport!).

From the dealer, I'm afraid. It's the dealer who makes the introduction to Hive and the voucher code comes as part of the "free charger" offer with an EV or PHEV ...

[wivenhoe]

11 hours ago, philip42h said:

Except that is not the whole truth. The standards state:

So it is required to fail to "useable" rather than "useless".

 

Ouch - “not the whole truth”. Agreed the charger should function without a comms network but at what charge rate ? - it would be pointless to have the regulations requiring ‘smart chargers’ if none of them need to be connected. They are not concerned about three pin plug chargers as they are not a drain on the network. 

You quoted the third bullet point but didn’t include the first one - I think that is the one covering my point and is of prime importance

.smart functionality, including the ability to send and receive information, the ability to respond to signals to increase the rate or time at which electricity flows through the charge point, demand side response services and a user interface

Also the Government Action Plan for introducing the new home charging states the need to balance the supply side –

Most EV drivers will do most of their charging overnight at or near home. Vehicles that are parked on charge for a few hours or more can be flexible in the power or exact timing of their charging, and still be fully ready to go when they are needed. These smart charging power adjustments will not inconvenience the EV driver but, by helping to efficiently balance the electricity system, will make their vehicle charging costs cheaper.

 

 

 

 

[philip42h]

36 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

Agreed the charger should function without a comms network but at what charge rate ? - it would be pointless to have the regulations requiring ‘smart chargers’ if none of them need to be connected.

A 7.4 kW charger will charge at 7.4 kW. The smart charger regulations are a little bit 'dumb' but no matter - most of us will endeavour to charge between midnight and 'early morning' because the rates are better. And if that isn't enough, they can always increase the cost of electricity at peak hours! Money talks ...

[Cyker]

How common are these variable rates? In my day you only got 2 rates, and that was only if you had an economy 7 meter. We just get one fixed rate no matter what!

 

[philip42h]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

How common are these variable rates? In my day you only got 2 rates, and that was only if you had an economy 7 meter. We just get one fixed rate no matter what!

How common are these EVs? ... 😉

All EV tariffs at least 'ape' Economy 7 in that they have defined peak and off-peak rates and periods - energy suppliers use half hourly readings from a smart meter to determine what rate to charge.

So called 'intelligent' or 'smart' tariffs are emerging from pretty much all of the major suppliers. In this case the rate charged is based on the availability of power during the specific period - potentially 48 different rates across the day but they are almost always a little more constrained and predictable than that.

The downside is that you need a car or charger that is compatible with and linked to the supplier's system - which gets us back into supplier lock-in and all that which will probably slow uptake somewhat!

The Toyota Home Charge unit isn't [yet] compatible with any intelligent tariff, but it supposedly conforms to the current smart charger specifications and will accept OTA firmware updates. So, once the appropriate standards are adopted industry-wide, they can be updated to conform and handle an intelligent tariff from any supplier ... yeah, I'm not holding my breath (I still have a SMETS1 smart meter!)

[cviclark]

I found my Toyota wall box needed a software update to 1.8?. Not easy as it kept loosing Internet access during update. I updated from my Tab rather than phone so a bit unsure how the download happened but it got there eventually. 

As I have solar panels I only charge when in sunshine,out of choice. Tarrifs  for ev night charges are of no interest as it is more expensive during daytime.

After update It started OK at the second attempt from App. But if you don't have a mobile or a mobile signal it is hopeless. I understand why the supplier wants a delay before charge starts to balance supply to the street but in bad weather its a pain. Here in the sticks mobile signals are poor to non existent, smart meter are still dumb.

Home box should be plug and go like the 13A. Not reliant on cell phone technology.