1st 1000 miles with the RAV4

[Bozz]

So the RAV has more than 1000 miles on the odometer - a few more plusses and minuses for any prospective purchasers 

- Its not incredibly economical in HYBRID mode - high 40's to low 50's with the the former under motorway conditions and loaded. Circa 2 tons being lugged along I guess

- Its very stable and sure footed at motorway speeds especially in the conditions we've experienced over the last couple of weeks (it's on CC2's)

- Its a high quality build (compared with the Corolla) and its very comfortable for long journeys (300miles plus). The seats are excellent, even the passenger seat which has limited adjustment. Drivers door armrest could be more useable though.

- The orange charging cable is a pain - seems much too heavy duty for the current capacity / physical durability requirements - python wrestling comes to mind

- The lack of storage in the load space is a pain

- The ICE is OK when cruising - reasonably smooth and quiet but when asked to rev a bit it's awful - really thrashy and in some ways quite like a diesel. It's very long stroke so as one would expect I suppose  - the 2.0 version is much more refined even though it doesn't benefit from all the sound deadening measures that are applied to the RAV.

- The safety sense systems are discrete and don't to give false alerts all the time

- The road sign alerts can be turned off - phew

- The steering assist cannot be turned off and this can create some weird lightness through the steering at times which is my biggest issue with the car TBH

- The lack of auto mute for the media / radio system on receipt of a call / message is a pain.

- DAB reception seems to suffer from audible interference but the sound reproduction otherwise is pretty good especially with a decent source

- The headlights are good - range and spread 

- The tailgate opening and closing speed is OK 

Here's to the winter. 

Bozz

[philip42h]

30 minutes ago, Bozz said:

Its not incredibly economical in HYBRID mode - high 40's to low 50's with the the former under motorway conditions and loaded. Circa 2 tons being lugged along I guess

It's incredibly economical as a hybrid - high 40's to low 50's under motorway conditions and loaded - which is quite exceptional for a car of that size and weight! 😉 

It's good to hear that the PHEViness doesn't hamper it too much. 😄 

[Bozz]

21 minutes ago, philip42h said:

It's incredibly economical as a hybrid - high 40's to low 50's under motorway conditions and loaded - which is quite exceptional for a car of that size and weight! 😉 

It's good to hear that the PHEViness doesn't hamper it too much. 😄 

Compared to the Corolla 2.0 which would do nearly 55+ mpg on a long motorway run around the national speed limit

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, Bozz said:

So the RAV has more than 1000 miles on the odometer - a few more plusses and minuses for any prospective purchasers 

- Its not incredibly economical in HYBRID mode - high 40's to low 50's with the the former under motorway conditions and loaded. Circa 2 tons being lugged along I guess

- Its very stable and sure footed at motorway speeds especially in the conditions we've experienced over the last couple of weeks (it's on CC2's)

- Its a high quality build (compared with the Corolla) and its very comfortable for long journeys (300miles plus). The seats are excellent, even the passenger seat which has limited adjustment. Drivers door armrest could be more useable though.

- The orange charging cable is a pain - seems much too heavy duty for the current capacity / physical durability requirements - python wrestling comes to mind

- The lack of storage in the load space is a pain

- The ICE is OK when cruising - reasonably smooth and quiet but when asked to rev a bit it's awful - really thrashy and in some ways quite like a diesel. It's very long stroke so as one would expect I suppose  - the 2.0 version is much more refined even though it doesn't benefit from all the sound deadening measures that are applied to the RAV.

- The safety sense systems are discrete and don't to give false alerts all the time

- The road sign alerts can be turned off - phew

- The steering assist cannot be turned off and this can create some weird lightness through the steering at times which is my biggest issue with the car TBH

- The lack of auto mute for the media / radio system on receipt of a call / message is a pain.

- DAB reception seems to suffer from audible interference but the sound reproduction otherwise is pretty good especially with a decent source

- The headlights are good - range and spread 

- The tailgate opening and closing speed is OK 

Here's to the winter. 

Bozz

Concur...

56+ real mpg is however possible if you drive in eco with a light foot. 

Hold down the steering Assist button on the steering wheel for 2 or so seconds. It switches off the departure warnings. You can enable them again including LTA by pressing the button once a couple of times.

Orange cable. Too long and heavy. I'm using one I got for the last R4 PHEV. Bright green. Short. Easy to handle.

Drivers arm rest is too hard. Hard plastic under the the fake leather. If someone finds a soft stick on pad I'm all in. 

Tailgate opens 30 or 40 percent faster than the last one! 🤷

 

[Mike2222]

3 hours ago, Bozz said:

Compared to the Corolla 2.0 which would do nearly 55+ mpg on a long motorway run around the national speed limit

Seems like this isn't a fair comparison, because these are not the same type of vehicles. Air resistance is a factor of drag coefficient x frontal area x speed² (without accounting for environmental wind speed or direction). The corolla has a much lower coefficient (something like 0.265 vs 0.33 as best as I can fathom), and is a much shorter car/smaller frontal area. And the speed² means the air resistance to be overcome is not at all linear. 

 

Apples and oranges

[Flatcoat]

Sounds like you should have stuck with your Corolla. Please tell of a 2 tonne SUV that will a give Corolla economy without driving like a funeral convoy. 

[Nick72]

Worth also checking out other equivalent sized SUV PHEVs for their mpg. I've only seen and heard about a few. Typically late 30s to mid 40s mpg. 

[ernieb]

The RAV4 PHEV is a marvel in terms of economy compared to similar cars. It’s unfair to compare the car to a lighter smaller model.

The boot space is limited if you have four up but with two up, our case, and with the rear seats folder I can get a significant load.

[ThomasL]

Thanks for your honest opinions and information. I don't know why people reacting so upset about it.

I'd be a bit disappointed in 40s motorway MPG if I'd bought a car Toyota advertised as, and I quote:

"282.4 mpg"

 

[nlee]

4 minutes ago, ThomasL said:

I'd be a bit disappointed in 40s motorway MPG if I'd bought a car Toyota advertised as, and I quote:

"282.4 mpg"

That’s just an estimation of fuel usage for an “average” user of a PHEV. It’s impossible to give a mpg for combined ICE and EV driving because it’s highly dependent on how the user charges and the journey profiles. 

[ThomasL]

I know, and obviously includes 30 odd miles of pure electric.

I wish manufacturers were forced to publish (or press were interested in reporting) a headline figure of "MPG in ICE mode @ 70mph" for PHEVs alongside "EV range @ 70mph".

I always appreciate hearing what real people are finding as I ponder between a PHEV as only vehicle, or hybrid for long journeys plus small EV for pootling around town...

[philip42h]

9 minutes ago, ThomasL said:

Thanks for your honest opinions and information. I don't know why people reacting so upset about it.

I'd be a bit disappointed in 40s motorway MPG if I'd bought a car Toyota advertised as, and I quote:

"282.4 mpg"

You need to understand the quoted figure - this is the "Combined fuel consumption – weighted
combined WLTP data (mpg)". The "weighted combined" piece that it is a blend of driving as a hybrid burning petrol, and driving as an EV relying on stored charge in the traction Battery and burning no fuel at all. The WLTP test defines the conditions and contribution of each for test carried out in a laboratory. Suffice to say the figure is theoretical, useful for comparison purposes only, and not representative of real world performance - just as the NEDC figures were in the bad old days.

For the HEV, the WLTP figure is around 48 mpg. HEV drivers can be confident of getting close to that figure - my results lie within the range 45 mpg to 51 mpg depending on weather and journey type.

The PHEV is the same car as the HEV, with a bigger (heavier) traction Battery and more powerful electric motors. The fact that in hybrid mode without the benefit of EV use relying on stored charge in the traction Battery it can broadly match the economy of the HEV is entirely to its credit.

[philip42h]

4 minutes ago, ThomasL said:

I wish manufacturers were forced to publish (or press were interested in reporting) a headline figure of "MPG in ICE mode @ 70mph" for PHEVs alongside "EV range @ 70mph".

Maybe in the next iteration of the WLTP standard they could do just that - publish the WLTP test result for a PHEV with and without the benefit of the charge stored in the traction Battery. The industry tends to be a bit slow ... 😉

[GBgraham]

Imo WLTP is a bit of legalised advertising bs. Here on the Toyota Hellas model page it shows the fuel consumption as 1ltr/100km which is probably a lot nearer of been correct but only for the first 100km with a fully charged Battery. Why the two Toyota sites publish different values, who knows but the German Toyota site show an even extra statement of Fuel consumption with discharged Battery (combined) as 6.6ltr/100km/42.8mpg?

When I do a longer trip with combined EV/HEV mode I quite often get a mpg into the fifties so definitely no complaints here.

[Bozz]

10 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

Sounds like you should have stuck with your Corolla. Please tell of a 2 tonne SUV that will a give Corolla economy without driving like a funeral convoy. 

The RAV 4 overall is better than the Corolla for me at my stage of life and hopefully once I have the facility to charge at home the 'fuel' cost per mile will improve dramatically.

 

[APS]

14 hours ago, Bozz said:

Compared to the Corolla 2.0 which would do nearly 55+ mpg on a long motorway run around the national speed limit

Your expectations need a calibration. The RAV4 is an SUV which means it is taller with a larger frontal area, it rides higher allowing more air underneath it, it weighs more, it has more transmission gear, and has larger wheels that create more roll and wind resistance. I'd say 50 mpg at motorway speeds is very good.  

[APS]

5 minutes ago, APS said:

I'd say 50 mpg at motorway speeds is very good.

To put this into perspective - 50 mpg is what you'd expect to get as a minimum from doing the same journey in a 1 litre Aygo. Your RAV4 is virtually lugging two Aygos worth of weight around.

[ThomasL]

34 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

The German Toyota site show an even extra statement of Fuel consumption with discharged battery (combined) as 6.6ltr/100km/42.8mpg

Did not know that and it's exactly what I'd like to see! Good old German attention to detail 😃 haven't seen it on GB adverts.

[Oscarmax]

Regardless even after 😀14 months and  9,000 miles, I am still impressed with the Suzuki Across/RAV4 PHEV

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, Bozz said:

The RAV 4 overall is better than the Corolla for me at my stage of life and hopefully once I have the facility to charge at home the 'fuel' cost per mile will improve dramatically.

 

So why criticise the economy in the way you have? You do not need a vehicle charging point to charge at home, use the granny charger. your opening post wording might have been better chosen to avoid the responses you are getting. For what it’s worth this time last year I drove to Prague. In the deristricted autobahn sections through eastern Germany I kept close to 95/100mph (150/160km/h) for long stretches. Elsewhere I usually drive at around the prevailing 120 or 130km/h limit. Economy was typically mid/high 40’s and never below 42mpg. Not economical? Really?! I do agree with the comfort and seats and boot storage could be better designed although with not having a spare wheel, I use the under floor void. I have a mute button but the audio on mine automatically cuts out when making taking a call. 

[GBgraham]

17 hours ago, Bozz said:

So the RAV has more than 1000 miles on the odometer - a few more plusses and minuses for any prospective purchasers 

- Its not incredibly economical in HYBRID mode - high 40's to low 50's with the the former under motorway conditions and loaded. Circa 2 tons being lugged along I guess

Bozz

I never bother logging fuel consumption accurately because I have just got used to expect it's mpg. For this thread I have just looked up a recent round trip to the airport on MyToyota. This was with 4 persons and baggage going, 2 persons on the return and it's giving a total 194 miles, 75mls of mountain roads, the rest motorway, 41% EV and it's giving a very pleasing 64.1 mpg. For those interested the driving score was 89.

[Pannett]

Our Octavia PHEV estate (1.4 litre Budak cycle petrol engine plus an e-motor linked to a 13kWh battery) gave a real world mpg of 78.5 over 11600 miles with 50% on ePower and 50% hybrid driving. It was lovely to drive but the unreliable software meant we part-exchanged it for our Corolla self-charging hybrid. Once the 12v Battery was replaced plus software updates, it has proved to be reliable, economical and provides great peace of mind with the 10-year warranty.

[philip42h]

31 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

I never bother logging fuel consumption accurately because I have just got used to expect it's mpg. For this thread I have just looked up a recent round trip to the airport on MyToyota. This was with 4 persons and baggage going, 2 persons on the return and it's giving a total 194 miles, 75mls of mountain roads, the rest motorway, 41% EV and it's giving a very pleasing 64.1 mpg. For those interested the driving score was 89.

Which is 64.1 mpg compared with a WLTP figure of 280 mpg - which is what some are 'complaining' about.

Doing your sum differently, 194 miles at 64.1 mpg implies that you burned 3 gallons of fuel. If you started with your PHEV fully charged you'd have completed around 50 miles as an EV. Meaning that you covered 194 - 50 = 144 miles as a hybrid, burning 3 gallons of fuel in the process, giving a hybrid economy of 48 mpg - which is pretty much exactly what we would have expected.

On the same journey I would have expected to burn an extra gallon of fuel to cover your 50 EV miles ... 😉

Either way a RAV4 in pure hybrid mode returns a pretty decent fuel economy - I am very pleased with mine. On a recent trip, just shy of 1,000 miles it returned just shy of 50 mpg.

In comparison, my previous car was a RAV4 D-CAT auto - so pretty much the same size of car but diesel powered. And that returned around 37-38 mpg overall - so hybrid wins, hands down! 🙂

[Bozz]

20 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Concur...

56+ real mpg is however possible if you drive in eco with a light foot. 

Hold down the steering Assist button on the steering wheel for 2 or so seconds. It switches off the departure warnings. You can enable them again including LTA by pressing the button once a couple of times.

Orange cable. Too long and heavy. I'm using one I got for the last R4 PHEV. Bright green. Short. Easy to handle.

Drivers arm rest is too hard. Hard plastic under the the fake leather. If someone finds a soft stick on pad I'm all in. 

Tailgate opens 30 or 40 percent faster than the last one! 🤷

 

Thanks Nick for the info about the Steering Assist that's got rid of a major annoyance for me - at least I hope it has 

[Bozz]

3 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

So why criticise the economy in the way you have? You do not need a vehicle charging point to charge at home, use the granny charger. your opening post wording might have been better chosen to avoid the responses you are getting. For what it’s worth this time last year I drove to Prague. In the deristricted autobahn sections through eastern Germany I kept close to 95/100mph (150/160km/h) for long stretches. Elsewhere I usually drive at around the prevailing 120 or 130km/h limit. Economy was typically mid/high 40’s and never below 42mpg. Not economical? Really?! I do agree with the comfort and seats and boot storage could be better designed although with not having a spare wheel, I use the under floor void. I have a mute button but the audio on mine automatically cuts out when making taking a call. 

Not meant to be a criticism particularly - just an observation and a comparison with my previous hybrid. And yes I could use the granny charger but will need to install an EV rated 13A socket and get a heavy duty extension lead so I'll just wait for my Toyota charger to be installed. In the meantime I can use the Pod Point chargers at work.