Undecided between model of Corolla Touring

[Heidfirst]

afaik it's now Lithium

[taxidriver50005]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

Does the 2.0 still use a NiMH battery or did they switch to Lithium in the refresh?

I always found it weird they used Lithium with the 1.8 but the more powerful 2.0 stuck with NiMH!

Not only did they stick with NiMH for 2.0 it's also near double the capacity of lithium ion Battery, this can only mean they can recover more energy from regen ect otherwise what's the point. 

[taxidriver50005]

8 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

afaik it's now Lithium

Do we know the new capacity of Battery... Is it the same unit as 1.8

[trashman1965]

1 hour ago, taxidriver50005 said:

Do we know the new capacity of battery... Is it the same unit as 1.8

Both are now 4.08 Ah and both lithium. 2.0 was previously 6.5 Ah in the hatch/TS (UK saloon was slightly higher on on 1.8 but only briefly available in the UK).

The voltage is also different ~ 600 volts Vs ~ 200 volts.

So the capacity is less, but described as more "energy dense". It's also physically smaller, more compact and lighter. Simple terms it charges, stores and delivers power more efficiently. This is Toyota speak not me 🙂

Electric motor also different. NiMH is a pretty old technology and you can't directly compare the capacity and performance with the new technology.

 

[APS]

10 hours ago, Cyker said:

I always found it weird they used Lithium with the 1.8 but the more powerful 2.0 stuck with NiMH!

I'm guessing it might have to do with prices, availability and space. I also suspect the NiMH is such a familiar chemistry by now. They know it's stable, and their software is very good at managing the ageing process.

Similarly, they added Lithium to the Prius+ but it was not rolled out universally. Might be do with packaging. Lithium can be used where there are tighter space and weight constraints.  

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, trashman1965 said:

Both are now 4.08 Ah and both lithium. 2.0 was previously 6.5 Ah in the hatch/TS (UK saloon was slightly higher on on 1.8 but only briefly available in the UK).

The voltage is also different ~ 600 volts Vs ~ 200 volts.

So the capacity is less, but described as more "energy dense". It's also physically smaller, more compact and lighter. Simple terms it charges, stores and delivers power more efficiently. This is Toyota speak not me 🙂

Electric motor also different. NiMH is a pretty old technology and you can't directly compare the capacity and performance with the new technology.

 

Cool so now we only have to worry about them bursting into flames... 

[Estate lover]

Oh, My!

Thank you all for taking the trouble to post on this topic. I will have to re-read and digest some of the posts  - doesn't seem to be clearcut - on paper at least!

Kind regards.

[TonyHSD]

I don’t think there are any hybrids with 600v batteries. These 600v are max output from the inverter converter when electric motors meets their peak  power. Even evs has max of around 400v batteries capacity. 
The idea of Toyota hybrids Battery is to be as small as possible and as power dense as possible. These are like a large capacitors who collect and store energy for short amount of time only. The lighter they are the better is. 
The bigger capacity Battery in Toyota hybrids doesn’t mean better or more ev tine. 
Since 2023 both 1.8 and 2.0 uses lithium Battery technology. In 2024 there have been fitted new smaller size batteries but these are different in between the 1.8 and 2.0 variants. The batteries are more power dense but lighter in overall kg. The 2.0:has more cells and capacity. 
The Ni-mh  technology still used today in some new models like tundra , crown and others in their power max hybrids. 
In latest Corolla 2024-> engines aren’t changed and they are same as 2019 , how’s the batteries are new, the transmissions, the e motors and the inverters. All upgrades made to make hybrids more like an evs. 

[trashman1965]

22 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I don’t think there are any hybrids with 600v batteries. These 600v are max output from the inverter converter when electric motors meets their peak  power. Even evs has max of around 400v batteries capacity. 
The idea of Toyota hybrids battery is to be as small as possible and as power dense as possible. These are like a large capacitors who collect and store energy for short amount of time only. The lighter they are the better is. 
The bigger capacity battery in Toyota hybrids doesn’t mean better or more ev tine. 
Since 2023 both 1.8 and 2.0 uses lithium battery technology. In 2024 there have been fitted new smaller size batteries but these are different in between the 1.8 and 2.0 variants. The batteries are more power dense but lighter in overall kg. The 2.0:has more cells and capacity. 
The Ni-mh  technology still used today in some new models like tundra , crown and others in their power max hybrids. 
In latest Corolla 2024-> engines aren’t changed and they are same as 2019 , how’s the batteries are new, the transmissions, the e motors and the inverters. All upgrades made to make hybrids more like an evs. 

Hence my caveat about Toyota speak:

https://www.toyota.co.uk/content/dam/toyota/nmsc/united-kingdom/new-cars/corolla-hatchback/Corolla-HB-and-TS-September-24-(MY24).pdf (the mention of Battery 600v - both this and older spec below mention motor max voltage at 600)

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/pdf/210127M-Corolla-Tech-Spec.pdf#:~:text=TOYOTA COROLLA TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS. 1.8-litre Hybrid. Engine Code.

[TonyHSD]

56 minutes ago, trashman1965 said:

Hence my caveat about Toyota speak:

https://www.toyota.co.uk/content/dam/toyota/nmsc/united-kingdom/new-cars/corolla-hatchback/Corolla-HB-and-TS-September-24-(MY24).pdf (the mention of battery 600v - both this and older spec below mention motor max voltage at 600)

https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/pdf/210127M-Corolla-Tech-Spec.pdf#:~:text=TOYOTA COROLLA TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS. 1.8-litre Hybrid. Engine Code.

Toyota brochures and most other brands has always contained errors. 
Batteries on all Toyota hybrids are around 200v , electric motors 650v max power. No arguments, just the truth. 👍

[trashman1965]

Well this is the UK brochure with no mention of JBL and plenty of photos of left hand drive,😇

[Heidfirst]

7 hours ago, Estate lover said:

Oh, My!

Thank you all for taking the trouble to post on this topic. I will have to re-read and digest some of the posts  - doesn't seem to be clearcut - on paper at least!

Kind regards.

really it comes down to how much you want the extra acceleration (~1.5s, 0-60) afforded by the 2.0 over the 1.8 & whether it is worth the ~£1700 cost to you to get it. If running costs are a big driver then that £1700 buys quite a lot of fuel.

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, Heidfirst said:

really it comes down to how much you want the extra acceleration (~1.5s, 0-60) afforded by the 2.0 over the 1.8 & whether it is worth the ~£1700 cost to you to get it. If running costs are a big driver then that £1700 buys quite a lot of fuel.

He's buying used so not as much difference in price, also it's not just 0-60 times... 2.0 is a more relaxing drive at normal speeds but I wouldn't be disappointed with either. 

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, taxidriver50005 said:

He's buying used so not as much difference in price,

it pretty well will be on 23/24, they seem to retain the differential well on the same trim & there will be far fewer 2.0s available.

At least the the 138bhp 1.8 0-60 of 9.4s is acceptable by my standards, I would not have considered a 122bhp.

[sportse]

I drove my auris hybrid and Yaris hybrid many tens of thousands of miles on the motorway and they were ok despite being around 12 seconds 0-60. 
 

there were times going up hills when you were making a lot of noise but they still made the journeys ok. 
 

the facelift Corolla is much better though, you mostly are only just into the power band on the dial and there’s not too much noise. Plus averaging 60mpg instead of high forties maximum in the auris. 

[TonyHSD]

I have driven many cars with different engine sizes and propulsions ( petrol, diesel, electric, hybrids, turbo charged too, awd 4x4’s)  and I can guarantee that for those drivers that 1.8 or 1.5 Toyota hybrids aren’t powerful enough the 2.0 or 2.5 ones will also not be. The reason it’s not a bhp or torque values but how these are transmitted into the wheels. Even the biggest engine size and the biggest traction Battery Toyota/Lexus hybrid still gonna be revving uphill and under heavy load. It’s the nature of the transaxle they have. 
You want fast  acceleration buy ev or dsg petrol turbo. 
Relax efficient drive the hybrids are best suited.

The 1.8 2019-2022 122bhp are absolutely great cars to drive. By no means they are slow, underpowered or unpleasant to drive, except in high speeds high load motorway drives, exactly these applications where non of the  Toyota hybrids will be even the 2.0 194bhp Corolla. 

[Heidfirst]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but so am I & I disagree (& I also have driven all sorts from HGVs, off-road, rally cars etc.).

Revs are not an issue for me. The 2.0 196bhp Corolla is imo fine cruising at motorway speeds (mind you so too imo are the others).

It's the overtaking on country roads where the 122bhp falls down for me.

[trashman1965]

5 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

You are of course entitled to your opinion but so am I & I disagree (& I also have driven all sorts from HGVs, off-road, rally cars etc.).

Revs are not an issue for me. The 2.0 196bhp Corolla is imo fine cruising at motorway speeds (mind you so too imo are the others).

It's the overtaking on country roads where the 122bhp falls down for me.

I tend to agree. The 1.8 is a fine car but the 2.0 is a significant step up. No it's no hot hatch and wasn't intended to be. But it's reasonably quick. On Saturday I did my first A road overtake in 3 years of having it and was surprised by how well it picked up. Something I would never have attempted in my previous 1.8 auris's.

I'm someone also who has had performance cars but also enjoy a relaxed drive.

[TonyHSD]

But that’s the whole point of the 2.0 hybrid, to be better in certain situations and all that comes at a cost., 10mpg less on average, and eventual injectors issues as the injectors issues aren’t because of these engines are poorly made or with inferior parts but because where we live and the quality of the fuels sold on this country. 
I am far from arguing with anyone or to pretend I know more than anyone else here. Just my thoughts as car enthusiast, same as yours and mostly helping those who hasn’t decided yet to make their own decision easier. As per my first post here, performance oriented go for 2.0, efficiency go for 1.8.  👌👍

[Corolly Poly]

16 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

But that’s the whole point of the 2.0 hybrid, to be better in certain situations and all that comes at a cost., 10mpg less on average, and eventual injectors issues as the injectors issues aren’t because of these engines are poorly made or with inferior parts but because where we live and the quality of the fuels sold on this country. 
I am far from arguing with anyone or to pretend I know more than anyone else here. Just my thoughts as car enthusiast, same as yours and mostly helping those who hasn’t decided yet to make their own decision easier. As per my first post here, performance oriented go for 2.0, efficiency go for 1.8.  👌👍

The economy is also an option if you drive accordingly. Maybe not quite as good as the 1.8 but certainly not 10mpg worse. I would hope the injector issues specific to the 2.0 are now less of a problem as Toyota will have been aware of the issues with cars built in the years where it seems to have been an issue. Not seen much about it on later builds.

[J2024IE]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:55 PM, Estate lover said:

Hi All

I am in the process of choosing my next estate car and have decided on the Corolla Touring Design model but not sure which one to go for – 1.8 or the 2.0 litre. It will be a used 2023 or 2024 model costing around £28K. I am aware of the 0-60mph sprint times plus the smaller boot of the 2.0 litre. Any other feedback will be most welcome, thanks.

I had the 2023 Gen5 1.8L 140bhp TS and found it fine for all driving including motorway. the best fuel economy I got was 61mpg on a long motorway drive. plenty of boot space, and I had the factory spare wheel kit fitted.  road noise and engine noise was high.   I changed it and bought a Rav4 and the build quality is much better in the Rav4, and has better sound proofing, and engine very quiet.