2.0 injector issue are they just random

[taxidriver50005]

I think the easiest way of detecting it is when driving in ev and you accelerate gently to the point of when the petrol motor kicks in you get a very slight cough as it fire up, this is nearly the same feeling the older 1.8 has when EGR system is clogged, when all is good it's very hard to tell when the motor kicks in and out. 

The other way for me was in reverse with motor running, I would feel a slight shudder but couldn't feel it going forward. 

I've been very lucky so far as dealer just cracks on with job without any hassle on my side, I'm sure they would love to find a definitive fix. 

Recently a few friends with corolla and prius 1.8 have had fueling issues, luckily for them it hasn't got the the replacement of injectors stage and a tank drain has sorted it but it all points to garages storage. Incidentally the guys who have had issues have fuelled from esso and Shell and BP.... None from supermarkets. 

Can't help but wonder but as esso, she'll, and BP are normally franchises and supermarkets are managing buy a large company  are the franchises cutting maintenance costs somewhere... I know nothing about how there maintained but are the tanks purged of any water content that will gather in the bottom of tank. 

[TonyHSD]

That’s what I always been saying, every single fill up it’s so slightly different from the previous ans no matter if you fill up same garage same pump and same fuel type. I can’t explain why but I can see how the cat behaves. BP with M&S usually has the best fuels in Hertfordshire, or at least my Auris likes these the most but even from them from time to time the engine does these usual cold start knocking and smell of raw petrol. Last two days I am driving with BP e5 and added wynns catalytic converter and lambda sensor cleaner as I had some strange formations in the exhaust and the car drives so good. This addictive it’s a magic and smell real deal. The engine is ultra smooth quiet and No nasty knocking at all. Just added as preventative maintenance. 

[nielshm]

But if early models 2019-2021 are more reliable, it must be faulty by design.

It's likely that injector design has been slightly updated to get the engine even more efficient or to adress other issues.

[taxidriver50005]

5 hours ago, nielshm said:

But if early models 2019-2021 are more reliable, it must be faulty by design.

It's likely that injector design has been slightly updated to get the engine even more efficient or to adress other issues.

Think the early models are the most affected, could be as there older water has had more time to accumulate in the tank and as cars get older maybe this might become more of an issue, for now I'm adding wynns dry fuel to reduce any water content in my fuel tank. My injectors have been changed twice this year so any modified parts are still affected. 

[ThomasL]

Why does it seemingly only affect 2L engine? They use same fuel as 1.8L, are the port injectors a different part number?

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, ThomasL said:

Why does it seemingly only affect 2L engine? They use same fuel as 1.8L, are the port injectors a different part number?

Yes completely different motor and injectors, people have had issues with 1.8 injectors but not to the same extent. 

[nielshm]

2 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

Think the early models are the most affected, could be as there older water has had more time to accumulate in the tank and as cars get older maybe this might become more of an issue, for now I'm adding wynns dry fuel to reduce any water content in my fuel tank. My injectors have been changed twice this year so any modified parts are still affected. 

The same injector(s) has been replaced twice in 1 year? Something else must be wrong, other than bad fuel.

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, nielshm said:

The same injector(s) has been replaced twice in 1 year? Something else must be wrong, other than bad fuel.

Agreed but injector was corroded, this point to water so I've put in wynns dry fuel to see if this helps. 

My injector replacement interval has been 33,000...56,000,....66,000...now on 75,000... If it is water building up in tank this may explain shorter lifespan... Either way I'm trying to be proactive by adding dry fuel hopping this clears any water that may be building up and only filling at a trusted garage I've used for years. 

[Gray86]

From my old VW Golf GTI days, I’ve been following a tuning company in the midlands who also do injector cleaning services. They are seeing loads of problems with Bosch injector filter baskets deteriorating with the ethanol in our petrol. Interestingly when they clean injectors on Japanese import cars, the injectors are always nearly like new. Just shows the damage ethanol is doing to our fuel systems 

[TonyHSD]

1.8 does exactly same problems at cold starts mostly and from time to time and usually when left alone for few days or weeks. The knocking disappears 15-20 seconds after start up and may not return for days, weeks or months. 
I believe any single petrol engine gets affected by the poor quality petrol, the ethanol and water in , however these dynamic force engines because they use dual injection the port injectors gets troublesome as they don’t work all the time , they form corrosion , got stuck open and let some small amount liquid petrol to flood the combustion chambers causing misfire, upset engines and electric motor synchronised work and those infamous engine knocking noises. When the port injectors totally fail they let larger amounts of liquid fuel in, liquid it’s not compressible and engines got hydro locked. 
Then you need a new engine.  Btw Toyota are preparing a totally new and redesigned engines in 1.5 and 1.8 sizes. 

[taxidriver50005]

8 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

1.8 does exactly same problems at cold starts mostly and from time to time and usually when left alone for few days or weeks. The knocking disappears 15-20 seconds after start up and may not return for days, weeks or months. 
I believe any single petrol engine gets affected by the poor quality petrol, the ethanol and water in , however these dynamic force engines because they use dual injection the port injectors gets troublesome as they don’t work all the time , they form corrosion , got stuck open and let some small amount liquid petrol to flood the combustion chambers causing misfire, upset engines and electric motor synchronised work and those infamous engine knocking noises. When the port injectors totally fail they let larger amounts of liquid fuel in, liquid it’s not compressible and engines got hydro locked. 
Then you need a new engine.  Btw Toyota are preparing a totally new and redesigned engines in 1.5 and 1.8 sizes. 

The port injectors fire all the way past 3000rpm where they later switch solely to direct injection. 

[nielshm]

14 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

Agreed but injector was corroded, this point to water so I've put in wynns dry fuel to see if this helps. 

My injector replacement interval has been 33,000...56,000,....66,000...now on 75,000... If it is water building up in tank this may explain shorter lifespan... Either way I'm trying to be proactive by adding dry fuel hopping this clears any water that may be building up and only filling at a trusted garage I've used for years. 

Have you ever had your tank drained? If water is building up, and it is'nt removed, it could explain the same problem coming back again and again. 

Additives can remove some water in the fuel, but whats if water content is really high?

[taxidriver50005]

2 hours ago, nielshm said:

Have you ever had your tank drained? If water is building up, and it is'nt removed, it could explain the same problem coming back again and again. 

Additives can remove some water in the fuel, but whats if water content is really high?

Tank has never been drained as only on the last injector swop was corrosion mentioned, I have been asking from the first swop what problem was with injector but got no answers. 

The additive has been going in every few weeks at the moment to reduce any water that may or may not be in the tank, this is basically just a  emulsifier developt for the boating industry. 

I'm thinking if it is water in tank prolonged use of this additive should remove it all.. 

Only time will tell and I've still 25000 left on my warranty 🙄🙄🙄

[TonyHSD]

Just run the tank to empty 0 miles range and then go to refill again. Do this three times and no need to open the tank and drain it completely in any other way. 

[taxidriver50005]

4 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Just run the tank to empty 0 miles range and then go to refill again. Do this three times and no need to open the tank and drain it completely in any other way. 

That what I do with additive in... Run from full to emty and refill, I regularly get 500 plus miles out of tank so there really shouldn't be much in there, or maybe by doing this I dragging up more water if it is indeed in there. 

[Red_Corolla]

Just now, taxidriver50005 said:

That what I do with additive in... Run from full to emty and refill, I regularly get 500 plus miles out of tank so there really shouldn't be much in there, or maybe by doing this I dragging up more water if it is indeed in there. 

I would expect water, being higher in density vs petrol, to gather on the bottom. However, I would also expect the fuel pump to draw up from the bottom in order to make best use of the tank volume. So I wouldn't expect a large mass of water to accumulate, I think it would end up going through the system at the time it was introduced.

[taxidriver50005]

11 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

I would expect water, being higher in density vs petrol, to gather on the bottom. However, I would also expect the fuel pump to draw up from the bottom in order to make best use of the tank volume. So I wouldn't expect a large mass of water to accumulate, I think it would end up going through the system at the time it was introduced.

Agreed but I'm being proactive as there isn't too many other options I can do, I'm also filling at 1 garage that I've used for years instead of anywhere that's cheap 

[nielshm]

8 hours ago, taxidriver50005 said:

Agreed but I'm being proactive as there isn't too many other options I can do, I'm also filling at 1 garage that I've used for years instead of anywhere that's cheap 

How often do you drive our car? Does it sit for 3-4 days in a row, or is it a daily driver? 

Just thinking if a stand still for several days could result in corrosion starting to develop?

[taxidriver50005]

25 minutes ago, nielshm said:

How often do you drive our car? Does it sit for 3-4 days in a row, or is it a daily driver? 

Just thinking if a stand still for several days could result in corrosion starting to develop?

On the odd occasion it will sit for 10 hours otherwise it's being used. 

[Bozz]

If I remember correctly the service schedule now shows an injector cleaner at each service 

[taxidriver50005]

1 hour ago, Bozz said:

If I remember correctly the service schedule now shows an injector cleaner at each service 

Well mine in tomorrow for service so I'll ask

[Steven83]

So what are the obvious symptoms of this?

taxidriver mentioned a shudder when going from elec to petrol, I think I may have that sometimes but can’t remember.

Is there anything else?

[trashman1965]

2 hours ago, Steven83 said:

So what are the obvious symptoms of this?

taxidriver mentioned a shudder when going from elec to petrol, I think I may have that sometimes but can’t remember.

Is there anything else?

Have a look here:

 

[ThomasL]

19 hours ago, Bozz said:

If I remember correctly the service schedule now shows an injector cleaner at each service 

The book mentions a list of countries that applies to, but GB isn't one of them. It's a list of dodgy fuel countries.

But some dealers will do it anyway as an easy way to add £40 to the service price. You can buy the Toyota-branded cleaner fluid for £20 and pour it in yourself. Or buy Winn's etc for like £10.

But port injectors should be kept cleaned by the fuel additives in Super Unleaded, no?

[trashman1965]

1 hour ago, ThomasL said:

The book mentions a list of countries that applies to, but GB isn't one of them. It's a list of dodgy fuel countries.

But some dealers will do it anyway as an easy way to add £40 to the service price. You can buy the Toyota-branded cleaner fluid for £20 and pour it in yourself. Or buy Winn's etc for like £10.

But port injectors should be kept cleaned by the fuel additives in Super Unleaded, no?

As I understand it premium fuels have additives in their 95/E10, but their super unleaded have better/more additives. 

My MY21 had injector issues and was always run on V-Power from new, bar 1 or 2 part tanks of Shell 95. After I started having issues, I switched to BP ultimate and also tried fuel cleaners and made zero difference - I guess by then they were already at a point where additives couldn't help.

After it was obvious there were issues, I tried one tank of V-Power (different station and area completely from the previous normal 2) and it was way worse. Guess 95 meant bit less ignition advance and or slightly richer needed so slight fuel delivery increase masked the problem.

After the injectors were replaced, I did notice the car was immediately better but definitely improved over the next few tanks of BP Ultimate.

The additives certainly appear to help - I'm guessing poor/lack of delivery by port injectors while "clogged" meant valves, ports etc. had increased carbon/deposits - but certainly didn't prevent the issue in my case.