Battery Life.

[Yaris_Cross]

16 minutes ago, hind said:

Yes, this is certain, unless some super extraordinary conditions occur. Suggesting that it might not happen is deceptive and will cost the person who follows your advice. 

The problem with forums like this is you get  fanboys who will defend their pride and joy even when evidence clearly shows there is a problem and the manufacturers know about it but will not admit it, dealers are fitting bigger batteries to customers cars because they know the original is not up to the job for many customers who do not drive often  they should have offered the bigger Battery to all customers?

[forkingabout]

The below is taken from the Toyota 12 volt Battery testing procedure: 

For customer vehicles where usage pattern (unused for lengthy periods, low or repeated small mileage distances) is likely to shorten the life expectancy of 12v car Battery the following guidance may be appropriate:
• A Battery conditioner fitted
• Disconnection of the 12v battery
• A solar panel trickle charger

FWIW - Lads at the garage with motorcycles that stay in storage over the winter have Optimate battery charger / conditioners fitted to keep the battery in good condition during the long period of non use. 

[Corolly Poly]

Just now, forkingabout said:

The below is taken from the Toyota 12 volt battery testing procedure: 

For customer vehicles where usage pattern (unused for lengthy periods, low or repeated small mileage distances) is likely to shorten the life expectancy of 12v car battery the following guidance may be appropriate:
• A battery conditioner fitted
• Disconnection of the 12v battery
• A solar panel trickle charger

FWIW - Lads at the garage with motorcycles that stay in storage over the winter have Optimate battery charger / conditioners fitted to keep the battery in good condition during the long period of non use. 

I have used optimates for years on my bikes but now only give the bike 15-30 minutes a week on a smartplug timer to ensure it starts. Experience has shown that keeping them permanently connected can destroy a Battery over a single winter.

[hind]

1 minute ago, Corolly Poly said:

keeping them permanently connected can destroy a battery over a single winter.

Maybe the voltage was set too high and eventually removed the water from the solution? Hard to tell but something like 13V should be pretty safe. 

[Corolly Poly]

3 minutes ago, hind said:

Maybe the voltage was set too high and eventually removed the water from the solution? Hard to tell but something like 13V should be pretty safe. 

I thought Optimates were intelligent but have had a lot of batteries destroyed with permanent connection over winter so I no longer risk it.

[hind]

I think they were designed to work as a trickle charger but apparently something didn't go well. Anyway if the Battery is disconnected from the car/motorcycle, charged before, they should do just fine with sitting on the shelf for 6 months or so. 

[Cyker]

Probably set too high or too low a voltage - Lead acid batteries are very Goldilocks about their float voltage - half a volt too low and it still degrades, albeit slower; Bit too high and it slowly disassociates the water into hydrogen and oxygen. It's a pain if you don't know what the float voltage is, as it's different for wet, gel and agm, and that's before you start throwing in fancy calcium and boron etc. additives!

In computer land a lot of newer UPS' have switched to more favour cyclic charging, where it boosts the Battery until it stops taking charge, then lets it drain down a bit, then boost it up again and so on. With sealed batteries, the off-cycle gives the batteries a chance to recombine the H and O back into water, which a constant float charge doesn't allow, so it seems to work better.

The batteries don't last as long as with a properly set float voltage, but they also don't die within warranty if it's a bit off.

 

[ColinB]

4 hours ago, Corolly Poly said:

I thought Optimates were intelligent but have had a lot of batteries destroyed with permanent connection over winter so I no longer risk it.

I've used an Optimate on my motorcycle for years, it kept the original Battery working for nearly 10 years and the replacement is still OK 3 years later. 

[MikeSh]

Most batteries don't really like being sat at max (or min) charge and I'd especially expect automotive ones to be built for cyclic operation.

[Cyker]

Definitely true of NiMH and Lithium - 50% is usually bandied about as the optimal long-term level for those.

Lead Acid is a bit of a weird one - It *has* to be kept as near to 100% as possible for maximum life; At any state of charge below 100%, or if the float voltage is too low, the Battery degrades. The further from 100% the faster it degrades (And in starter type batteries that is pretty quick, which is why if they spend significant time below 50% they tend to suffer a significant capacity loss!)

 

[anchorman]

On 10/27/2024 at 10:16 AM, hind said:

Yes, this is certain, unless some super extraordinary conditions occur. Suggesting that it might not happen is deceptive and will cost the person who follows your advice. 

Funny that here it's only 75 quid battery but you don't consider the time needed for the replacement and environment factors of producing another dangerous garbage which has to be taken care of with another resource consuming process, while in other topic you insist that emission saving start-stop mechanism (also causing the battery to fail faster) should be mandatory. 

You forgot to mention mental health.  

[70mpg]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:29 PM, hind said:

If it's even possible without visiting the dealership or using Carista (or similar) app, as 9" Smart Connect have no such option and some of the 2021 YC were equipped with it IIRC.

I always disable the keyless entry when left outside my house and the spare fob is permanently disabled. I do it via the actual key fob  

[hind]

8 hours ago, 70mpg said:

I do it via the actual key fob

You do not disable the keyless entry but disable the fob this way. The car doesn't know that. It will save the Battery in the fob, won't change anything for the car. To disable keyless entry you do that: 

 

but it doesn't work for 9" (and potentially larger screens) because there is no such option.

[jthspace]

Disabling the key does stop unsavory people using key-sniffers by your front door from relaying unlock/start signals though. As effective as a Faraday box, which I find to be easier to use as you can't turn the key off on my MX5 so it has to be in a box anyway.

£10 Amazon, holds two key fobs.  Tested by holding the closed box near the cars and no signal leaks.

 

[hind]

Yes but if I understood correctly, we are focusing on the Battery Life here and disabling keyless was proposed as one of the methods to prolong it when the vehicle is parked 🙂

[dash]

If your key is kept within about 12ft of the car it will be in regular contact with the car. A Faraday box prevents this.

[Dala]

37 minutes ago, dash said:

If your key is kept within about 12ft of the car it will be in regular contact with the car. A Faraday box prevents this.

When parking outside on the street, a Faraday box for the whole car would be better 🙂

When charging the car Battery, I use a USB LTE modem to connect via WIFI to the Portable Power Station. One day, a Volkswagen Tiguan parked near my car and the WIFI LTE connection was interrupted for 10 o'clock. The connection was restored after this car left.

I think cars talk to each other - if they park near together. 😇

Isn't it possible that cars can also communicate with each other via bluettoth ? This could be a parasitic drain on the car Battery voltage.

[hind]

5 minutes ago, Dala said:

 One day, a Volkswagen Tiguan parked near my car and the WIFI LTE connection was interrupted for 10 o'clock.

Was it owned by the mobile network operator repairmen by any chance? 😛 

[Dala]

24 minutes ago, hind said:

Was it owned by the mobile network operator repairmen by any chance? 😛 

Maybe the owner had this device (or similar) in the car

https://hackaday.com/2020/09/08/teardown-mini-gps-jammer/

This situation made me wonder if the cars were communicating with each other via bluettoth.

For example, TPMS do not switch off and transmit continuously via bluetooth.

[hind]

Car multimedia system is switched off so how (and more important, why) would they communicate with each other? 🙂

[Dala]

I mean, smart entry, it's still waiting.

[Benzowner]

1 hour ago, dash said:

If your key is kept within about 12ft of the car it will be in regular contact with the car. A Faraday box prevents this.

So why is it that when I am within 5 ft of the car, my wife cannot unlock it? I have to be next to the car and even then my wife cannot unlock the passenger door and certainly cannot open the boot. 

[Trewithy]

The following was copied from the LBX forum on 12 volt Battery. 

" I learned from a local Toyota dealer that the Toyota Yaris Cross (which has a similar/equal hybrid setup) had similar problems until Toyota released a software fix and used a new Battery type. I don't know if this is different form the current LBX Battery setup."

No one on this forum has mentioned it so I wonder if it is correct.

[dash]

33 minutes ago, Benzowner said:

So why is it that when I am within 5 ft of the car, my wife cannot unlock it? I have to be next to the car and even then my wife cannot unlock the passenger door and certainly cannot open the boot. 

Two levels/types of communication. One to detect key within 12ft (to switch on interior light for example) and close proximity detection for unlocking of car.
You know when the key is communicating; a red LED on the keyfob illuminates when there is activity.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Benzowner said:

So why is it that when I am within 5 ft of the car, my wife cannot unlock it? I have to be next to the car and even then my wife cannot unlock the passenger door and certainly cannot open the boot. 

I think that's by design - IIRC the car can detect which door you're near, and won't unlock the other doors unless you unlock the one you're near; I assume it's to stop someone breaking into the car and stealing a handbag or something while you're on the other side of the car chatting to someone or walking away.