Aygo stalling when going uphill?

[ayfrgo11]

I've had this problem 2 times now, and both times with a passenger.

Yesterday, i was driving out of a parking garage in 2nd gear, though i was in a bit too high of a gear, as the motor was making a weird noise, while i was almost at the end of the uphill, the motor stalled. While i was stuck on the uphill slope, every time my car stalled.

What i did was: Turn the car on, and release the clutch as slowly as possible, while tapping the brake very lightly, as to not roll down back into the cars behind me, however every time i managed to release the clutch, the car would just stall again. After about 5 attempts, i finally managed to get it going. But i'm wondering, what is the correct thing to do in these cases? If my car stops on an uphill slope, am i not supposed to be able to start the car from first gear and go up? I wanted to use the gas pedal, but seeing as i had one foot on the clutch, and one foot on the brake to not roll down, i'm not sure how i could do that?

 

And in general, should i take steep uphill slopes, like those in parking garages, in 1st or 2nd gear? It's not always that i can maintain a high speed going up them, as there might be cars in front of me or similar, both times were a bit scary since i keep turning the car on and off, hoping it will not stall as soon as i release the clutch.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

This is in a 2019 X-clusiv Aygo

[johnny_c-l]

1st gear, use the handbrake, right foot on the throttle to give enough power to move away.

[Puglet]

Our early Mk2 has hill start assist, hopefully your Mk2 also has it, which may prove helpful, but as above our Mk1 has to use the old fashioned method of 1st gear and handbrake, which always worked for me, then again being old fashoned I stiil use neutral/handbrake when stationary when get to use our Mk2.

[TonyHSD]

Aygo and all other low power 3 cylinder engines cars needs higher rpm to pull away when loaded or when going uphill. Clutch control also needs more precise operations, but not always. My test Aygo x had superb clutch feel, excellent hill start assist and was pure pleasure to drive it and start steep uphills. The numbers you are looking at rpm when cruising at 60 mph or starting at incline will be close 3000rpm, these are equivalent of 1400 rpm in bigger 4 cylinder engines. 

[Cyker]

Ack this is really basic stuff your driving instructor should have taught you.

The main mistake is using the brake pedal to hold the car - Unless you are using e.g. hill start assist function, you should stop the car on the foot brake, but hold the car with the hand brake - That gives you the extra 'limb' you need to operate the accelerator and clutch for the hill start!

Holding it with the hand brake, 1st gear, clutch down, you rev the engine up with the accelerator (2000-2500rpm is a good place to start until you get a better feel for it), then gently bring the clutch in until you feel it take the weight off the handbrake, then carefully release the handbrake as you continue to bring the clutch up, adding more accelerator if the engine revs start to drop too much.

It is worth to practise this, as the Aygo is Hard difficulty level for this manoeuvre due to its low low-end torque and high clutch biting point (vs Turbo diesels, which are Easy mode difficulty by comparison  ). Take your time and don't rush until you get a feel for it and soon you'll be flying off up them hills!  

 

As for the hill gear, you should be able to feel what the appropriate gear is by how the car responds to the accelerator, but if unsure stick to 1st gear and don't be afraid to use all the revs to get to a speed where you can think about 2nd gear. At 30mph especially there are not many hills that are so steep you can't use 2nd gear (Well, maybe a different story in Wales  )

[ayfrgo11]

3 hours ago, Puglet said:

Our early Mk2 has hill start assist, hopefully your Mk2 also has it, which may prove helpful, but as above our Mk1 has to use the old fashioned method of 1st gear and handbrake, which always worked for me, then again being old fashoned I stiil use neutral/handbrake when stationary when get to use our Mk2.

How can i check if i have hill start assist?

[ayfrgo11]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

Ack this is really basic stuff your driving instructor should have taught you.

The main mistake is using the brake pedal to hold the car - Unless you are using e.g. hill start assist function, you should stop the car on the foot brake, but hold the car with the hand brake - That gives you the extra 'limb' you need to operate the accelerator and clutch for the hill start!

Holding it with the hand brake, 1st gear, clutch down, you rev the engine up with the accelerator (2000-2500rpm is a good place to start until you get a better feel for it), then gently bring the clutch in until you feel it take the weight off the handbrake, then carefully release the handbrake as you continue to bring the clutch up, adding more accelerator if the engine revs start to drop too much.

It is worth to practise this, as the Aygo is Hard difficulty level for this manoeuvre due to its low low-end torque and high clutch biting point (vs Turbo diesels, which are Easy mode difficulty by comparison  ). Take your time and don't rush until you get a feel for it and soon you'll be flying off up them hills!  

 

As for the hill gear, you should be able to feel what the appropriate gear is by how the car responds to the accelerator, but if unsure stick to 1st gear and don't be afraid to use all the revs to get to a speed where you can think about 2nd gear. At 30mph especially there are not many hills that are so steep you can't use 2nd gear (Well, maybe a different story in Wales  )

Unfortunately my teacher never taught me this, although we also have almost 0 hills in my country, when i use the hand brake, should i only lift it up one click? For example when i'm parking i pull it up all the way, but sometimes if i don't pull it all the way, that car can still move, so i assume i should only pull on it a bit?

[Cyker]

To check for hill start ability, it depends on the car so first thing to check is the manual.

Most of the time though, you activate it by pressing the brake pedal firmly and holding it for a few seconds. Sometimes the car beeps or lights up an indicator to tell you its active, but not all do (Again depends on the car). If it's working, you can let go of the foot brake and the car will keep holding it for you for ~5 seconds, so you can do the clutch and accelerator part to move off.

Newer Toyotas have a'Brake Hold' instead, which is activated with a button. When active, any time you bring the car to a complete stop with the foot brake, you can take your foot off and it will continue to hold it for you for like, minutes. It's a good alternative for newer cars which don't have handbrakes, as moving off smoothly and cleanly with an EPB is much harder than with a proper handbrake as you get no feedback whatsoever.

 

With using the handbrake, e.g. for a hill start, don't use the clicks - Keep the button pressed in and keep it held and pulled up tight to hold the car - That way you can ease it back down gradually as you transfer the weight from the handbrake to the clutch+accelerator - It's a bit of a balancing act and it takes practise to get a good feel for it, but it's a really good skill to have and helps you get a better zen understanding of how it feels to balance the power in the car.

I can see how it would be tricky to teach without any hills though  

(My instructor was a right git and would make me do them on really steep, deeply cambered roads, in a gutless 1L Corsa   But it did make me very good at it   I dread to think how many clutches that man got through in a year though    )

 

[Puglet]

Our Mk2 hill start assist works like Cyker explained, we have a slopping drive, so used it a few times, just apply foot brake and it engages, not sure for how long, so as soon as you engage clutch/revs car moves as normal. But as I said, I'm old school (aka old f*rt) so use handbrake/neutral when stopped even on our Mk2, as taught by my driving instructor, cos he explained if you stopped in traffic and in gear and foot slips off clutch, you could at best hit a car at worst a person!

@Cyker, think we are driving dinosaurs cos how drivers taught even say 5 to 10 years ago is completely different, cousin told me the other day you don't even have to signal when passing parked cars now, probably cos so many it just adds confusion, but in my day I was always picked up on it by my instructor.

As for the handbrake clicks, I never use the clicks/ratchet, think dear old Dad took me to task on that habit, maybe cars of very yesteryear had dodgy ratchets, but just got used to pulling up enough to engage properly. As for number of clicks, a properly adjusted handbrake should fully engage between about 3 to 6 clicks, otherwise it needs adjusting.

[Cyker]

Yeah I was a big advocate of handbrake on and neutral gear when stopped at the lights, but I think I was the only one in a 100 mile radius judging by the sea of brake lights  

I used the handbrake a lot though, more I suspect than the vast majority of drivers.

It was good for getting off the line quickly too - Before I got the Mk4 hybrid, I'd be at the lights in 1st gear, clutch just under the biting point, holding the handbrake.

As soon as the light changed, biting point, power, handbrake off and go!   Could get away nearly as fast as my Mk4 does  

 

I fear all those finely honed skills have atrophied severely now with the Mk4 hybrid alas  

[Vandals01]

On 10/30/2024 at 6:51 PM, Cyker said:

Yeah I was a big advocate of handbrake on and neutral gear when stopped at the lights, but I think I was the only one in a 100 mile radius judging by the sea of brake lights  

Good advice.

And it is this trick that allows my Aygo's original clutch last 100K+ miles.

 

But yes.  When doing an up hill start, use the Hand Brake as a foot brake.  This will free up your feet to find that braking point.  Once you have found it, release the hand brake then go.

Of course, it is possible to do an up-hill start without the hand brake (I once drove a 1999 Renault Clio with a non operational hand brake for half a year).  You just to have to be quick with the foot:

1. Clutch down
2. Foot off the brake, immediately step on the gas (to give it a little rev) then release the clutch.

The car may roll back a little (5 to 30 cm) but honestly, every driver should anticipate the car in front may roll back on a hill thereby put some extra safe distance as reserve.

[Vandals01]

On 10/30/2024 at 5:31 PM, ayfrgo11 said:

Unfortunately my teacher never taught me this, although we also have almost 0 hills in my country, when i use the hand brake, should i only lift it up one click? For example when i'm parking i pull it up all the way, but sometimes if i don't pull it all the way, that car can still move, so i assume i should only pull on it a bit?

The teacher MIGHT have taught you, but he/she might not explain the idea behind it.

Same with my driving instructor back in 2004.  She told me once stopped, pull the hand brake.  When going up-hill, after you found the braking point (you can feel the car's weight shifts toward the front), release the hand brake then go.

At no point did she mentioned "use the hand brake as your foot brake".  However, effectively that's what I was doing all those time.

[Rhymes with Paris]

21 minutes ago, Vandals01 said:

The car may roll back a little (5 to 30 cm) but honestly, every driver should anticipate the car in front may roll back on a hill thereby put some extra safe distance as reserve.

That's good, but maybe add a couple of metres (6 ft or so) to that at least.

There is a hill near here that tests the best of drivers, very steep, joining a main road, poor visibility.

I usually just shut my eyes,rev to around 3000 and drop the clutch at the same time as yanking the handbrake off.

Last paragraph only joking to the newer drivers😉

I found that particular junction a lot trickier on a heavy motorbike, juggling the right foot brake, the left hand clutch lever, and the right hand throttle, especially on my bike test 😄.

The handbrake on a car though,if the old lift up on a ratchet sort, can be easily got a feel for by pressing in the release button, and practicing to get the feeling of when it holds on a quiet road.