Celica 1.8 St Drinking Oil

[sotal]

Took the long route to work this morning so I could give it a bit, I shot along the dual carriage way taking it up towards the redline in each gear, not a bit of blue smoke, It had a bit of white coming out of the back, but I presume that was just steam.

I am starting to get very puzzled! :ffs:

[cookci]

if its using a litre in 300 miles i would expect lots of blue smoke out the back.

Let the car warm up... get some to take the engine to the rev limiter blipping it foot flat to floor and then totally release if you get me...

pedal to the floor hit redline... release... let revs drop a bit... pedal to floor again

you should see some blue smoke from that?

also might cure your problem too... you really sure be reaching the redline occasionaly

[sotal]

nope, no blue smoke doing that! Not a bit of smoke.

I also tried getting the engine warm and examining the whole exhaust to see if oil was dripping on it, and as expected nope!

I'm starting to get a little pee'd off with it now :(

Maybe it's just one of those things I need to accept and live with? I cannot think of anywhere else it can possibly go.

I'm 99% sure it isn't leaking - No patches in the road, no visible signs etc

I'm 100% sure it isn't mixing with coolant

And all tests show it is not being burnt, the only thing I have left to try is taking the exaust off - from the cat back, then seeing if the cat is looking bad and if blue smoke comes out then, but I don't really like messing with the exhaust

[cookci]

i know its a long shot but perhaps thrashing it a bit has fixed it?

might be worth keeping an eye on it

btw my last car used a litre every 250 miles and plooms of blue smoke would come out when i took it to the red line! Knackered seals i think on that

[SexyCrayola]

Hiya - just read it all.... am afraid I cant help you that much though as to what to do about it.

Some other questions early on answered though:

Your 1996 Celica is the same year as mine but just in the year that the model changed ever so slighly into later on in the same year.

Yours is a Pre-facelift Generation 6 Celica, just means looks different / earlier model fogs lights that are more rounded on the front.

Mine is an only JUST facelift Gen 6 '96 Celica but with the body kit as seen in avatar have changed my front end basically back to the prefacelift fogs etc like yours so not a great example lol.

Your oil usage is definately exessive, though with mine am noticing that its using more than it used to.

I Use GTX Magnatec 10w40 in mine.

Some days I thrash the eck out of it but most time its just 'plodding' though the sometimes exessively slow limits around here so cant say the effects of it.

Thinking I havnt even got a thermostat with how it constantly stays under 1/4 way no matter what!

Got the same year and the smae engine as you have, now on 87k miles

[RedAE102]

I figured it couldn't hurt to tell you about my case. I'm in the US, and I drive a '93 Corolla with a 1.8 7A-FE. My car has the twin-cat setup you saw, which is part of the California emissions package. Chokes output to 110 bhp... Anyway...

My car has done over 146,000 miles, and burns about one US quart of Mobil 1 10W-30 full synthetic every 5,000 miles. On just about every cold, or semi-cold tickover (after sitting at least 3 hours), the exhaust lets out a noticeable blue cloud. Yes, that's through two cats, which are obviously still doing their job, since my car passed the California Smog Check (at an extra-strict Test-Only station) last year... A couple of friends (one is a technical writer for Mitsubishi North America, another is an Automotive Technology instructor at the local community college) have indicated that it is most likely the valve stem seals causing my oil consumption, but there is still a possibility that the rings are worn, and a compression and leakdown test would determine the cause. Oh, and I've never seen anything but the white steam blown out of the exhaust once the engine lets out its blue cloud at initial tickover.

On a side note, I don't see how good compression would rule out the valve stem seals. Compression indicates how well the piston rings, valve seals, and head gasket are performing, not valve stem seals... For reference, Haynes gives the standard cylinder compression pressures @ 250 rpm at 191 psi, and the minimum at 142 psi.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

sexy is your celica not a 3sge engine or the 3sfe ???? sorry if im wrong.

[SexyCrayola]

sexy is your celica not a 3sge engine or the 3sfe ???? sorry if im wrong.

I Know what engine Ive got! spent enough time cleaning it up etc :)

Sorry to 'disapoint' you

[GT4 BOOSTER]

ok sweetie

[sotal]

Your 1996 Celica is the same year as mine but just in the year that the model changed ever so slighly into later on in the same year.

Yours is a Pre-facelift Generation 6 Celica, just means looks different / earlier model fogs lights that are more rounded on the front.

Mine is an only JUST facelift Gen 6 '96 Celica but with the body kit as seen in avatar have changed my front end basically back to the prefacelift fogs etc like yours so not a great example lol.

Hi there SexyCrayola, wow I'm confused from your post!

Are you saying my celica was the one from before the facelift or after the facelift? I thought it was from after the facelift because it has got clear indicators in the bumper? also my fog lights don't look like yours!

Anyway as for the oil, I just don't know but what RedAE102 said about the valve stem seals - yes I think I'm getting confused between valve seals and valve stem seals, but even so there is still no blue smoke ever! I have tried everything and there is no way I can get blue smoke to come out of the exhaust!

SexyCrayola Your air intake looks good - what is it and how easy was it to fit? Does it change noise or performance? (looks very clean under there as well!)

[Hou]

sexy is your celica not a 3sge engine  or the 3sfe ????  sorry if im wrong.

I Know what engine Ive got! spent enough time cleaning it up etc :)

Sorry to 'disapoint' you

rose have you thought of relocating the Battery and extending the induction pipe so its not sucking in too much hot air???

[cookci]

try using 15w 40 part synthetic from Halfords (only place i know that def have it).

give it a hit off the rev limiter once a week and let see how you get on

christian

[Kevstir]

Hey Cookci i dont think a touch on the red line once a week will do anything , think of it this way 90% of drivers on the road never take a car to the red line and i would say most run fine , i recon thicker oil is needed like the Castrol Highmilage or the valvoline maxlife ..

[GT4 BOOSTER]

thick oil and a tin of winns once a week for a while maybe ?

[cookci]

Hey Cookci i dont think a touch on the red line once a week will do anything , think of it this way 90% of drivers on the road never take a car to the red line and i would say most run fine , i recon thicker oil is needed like the Castrol Highmilage or the valvoline maxlife ..

you'l have to trust me on this one im afraid mate :P

it helps free up sticky rings!

Trouble is with the Castrol high milleage is that its a mineral oil :(

[sotal]

thick oil and a tin of winns once a week for a while maybe ?

Do you reckon the winns stuff works, I was a bit dubious about paing a fiver for something like that?

I know thrashing the engine frees up sticky rings etc, but couldn't it damage the engine as well? I mean with higher pressures etc it could push oil past the seals quicker and make me lose more?

What's wrong with mineral based oil?

And yes it does seem to be slower with thicker oil, but I still want my engine to be protected!

Any Suggestions?

[awhite]

I have the 3SGE engine in my 1990 Gen 5 Celica 2.0 GTi (so has no CAT) and I've had a similar problem - although, not quite as bad.

Close inspection of the engine and a steam clean later just proved that the previous owner was a messy plonker - spilled engine oil everywhere!

Couple of hundred miles later and I'm losing oil - still no smoke and NO sign of any oil loss.

Lots of head scratching later, a compression test which showed nothing wrong and no bad smells (apart from some dodgy curryheads!) we were all stuck. Chatting over a coffee, our friendly mechanic got up, put the car on a ramp and hid underneath the car. 10 minutes later, he came out, washed his hands and grinned - showing us some rather greasy towels...

When I purchased the car I emptied out the oil and put some engine cleaner in there. Then I filled it up with 0w40 - very very thin stuff. It's so thin and new that you can't see it leaking out! The towels were covered in oil - that you couldn't see.

Turns out that it's leaking oil from the rear seal (very expensive to replace) and also some other minor gaskets that I can't remember the name of. (The head gasket was also a possibility, but we're also leaving that for now).

So, new gaskets fitted, new oil filter, system flush and some thicker oil and it's not using no where near as much oil. Yes, it's still coming from the rear seal, but I'm not prepared to fork out for this - so I'm living with it. :ffs:

Hope you find your problem! :(

[sotal]

Cheers awhite that looks interesting, when I got mine I went to Halfords read the little book ther eand it said standard oil was 10w40 but for ultimate protection you should use 0w40 so I got some of that. Did a full oil change and that stuff was the stuff that disappeared quickly!

But I've since put gallons of 10w40 in and I'm sure I should be able to see that! I've looked as best as I can around the back of the engine but it is hard to see. I'm just certain that I should be able to see more!

I got the car from a garage who didn't want to know anything about it after I got it, but I am seriously thinking of checking the previous owner out and seeing if I can ring them to ask if they know anything about it (in a polite manner!) It had two previous owners - one for the first 2 and a half years, then the next for almost 6 years - so I'm guessing they sold it because of this problem??

[awhite]

The problem with putting that much engine oil in is that it will never be "used" engine oil - so won't be discoloured. Even 10w40 is clear(ish).

Try being sneaky - go to your local exhaust place and say that it sounds like your exhaust is blowing at the front. If they'll let you anywhere near the car then go underneath with him and <politely> ask him if he can also see any oil leaks :-D Take a paper towel with you and try to wipe the side of the engine - if it's road dirt that comes off then there's no leak. If it's greasy as hell, then there's your problem.

When the guy says that the exhaust is fine, just say that it must be the induction kit that you're not used to yet :-D

As for previous owner, well, there's certainly no harm in writing a letter to them.

[cookci]

0w40 will dissappear quickly... its very thin and will of cleared out all the cr*p left by mineral oil.

[sotal]

0w40 will dissappear quickly... its very thin and will of cleared out all the cr*p left by mineral oil.

Is that good or bad?

I'm pretty sure it hasn't got a leak, but it is hard to see much of the back, I will get out the ramps on saturday and give it the best possible check over from underneath - after that it's going down to the garage - I just can't think of anything else!

[cookci]

overly thin oil aint that good no especially if you have to top it up every journey!

0w40 dissappears on mine quite quickly so id stick with 10w40 and it barely uses any (about half a litre every 6000 miles)

run it on 15w40 part synthetic or even 15w50 valvoline.

Really worth a try... thick oil wont be able to get thru the seals or rings as easily

Remember its perfectly within reason for a car to use a litre every 1000 miles... even if you have an engine rebuild and it uses that much they will prob tell you to clear off...

if you do decide for an engine rebuild DONT take it too a garage

[GT4 BOOSTER]

have a 3sge dropped in it , lots more fun

[sotal]

Remember its perfectly within reason for a car to use a litre every 1000 miles... even if you have an engine rebuild and it uses that much they will prob tell you to clear off...

Well I'm glad I'm not doing my old journey! I used to do 800 miles a week - I had a 306 dturbo for that job though! I thought oil was a pain on that cause I had to do a full change every 6000 miles (every 7 weeks) but atleast it never disappeared!

I'll try 15w40 next I think - Is it worth using branded? I've just been using tescos as it's a hell of a lot cheaper and seeing as it just goes I don't like to watch money disappear!

Don't really want a different engine, as this one still works fine and I got this one for the insurance costs.

I was reading on some other sites that the Honda Civic Type R uses a litre of oil every 1000 miles as standard, when new from the factory. Sounds like they just build them things craply! But where is it going on them? I tried to figure that out but the only answer I can find is that "the engine 'uses' the oil" maybe that's just what mine is doing? :) It's just "using" the oil??? Crap excuses! :ffs: from honda

[mikeb]

My 3s-ge engine uses about a litre in about 2k miles. I had a leaking head gasket so when I changed it I rebuilt the c/head. So I know it's not the valve seals. Also, the bores were perfect, so I don't think the rings are worn. I have fixed all the leaks (cam cover was starting to go and dizzy drize o-ring as well as the head gasket), and my engine still uses as much oil.

It must be burning it, but there is no smoke and no smell, and I don't have a cat at all. I know it's not nearly as bad as your oil problem though, and the 3s-ge engine is likely to use more oil than yours. I have just changed from 10-40 to 0-40 oil, so I will have to see what difference it makes to me.

A few points:

High output engines (e.g. type R, BMW M3 etc) tend to use more oil as they have fewer or less tight oil control rings. This helps reduce cylinder friction, which would otherwise sap power. When Honda say the type r "uses" oil, they mean it burns it. It's just slightly less embarrasing than saying it burns oil. The 3s-ge engine was originally designed for racing and that is why I said it would typically use more oil than yours. Your engine is not a particularly high performance engine and in good condition ought to use a small amount of oil.

A compression test primarily tests the compression rings, NOT the oil rings. Your compression test indicates that the cylinder bores and compression ring is fine, but it doesn't really tell you much about the state of the oil rings. Compression testing should be done while the engine is hot.

A catalytic convertor does not reduce visible oil smoke by filtering it, and blocking the cat. The temperatures inside a catalytic converter are very high, and would easily burn off any (relatively) small amounts of oil.

Giving the engine a bit of a thrashing can sometimes free up a sticking oil ring. There is no need to bounce it of the rev limiter though! 5500 revs should be enough. Make sure it's fully warmed up though (drive for a good 10 mins first to be sure the oil is up to temp).

Use a semi-decent branded oil. The really cheap stuff is likely to burn quicker than an equivalent good oil. Using 15-40 should help to reduce consumption, but it may be too thick to lubricate the engine sufficiently. If your engine has hydraulic lifters, they are notorious for sticking if the oil is too thick, or not changed regularly enough. I would recommend a branded semi synthetic oil (Castrol GTX can often be found pretty cheap, and is reasonable). It's not worth putting expensive fully synthetic in at the rate you are losing it, but really cheap stuff is false economy.