Dastek Yesterday!

[drb5]

Well yesterday was the big day! Went to Dastek with a few scooby boys and had a good day.

Peak brake horse power was 114.5 at 6000 revs and torque was, 107.1 at 5500 revs. The bloke that owns the place, jerry, said it was runing fine right up to 5500 revs and after that, it was runing mega rich, probably down to the manifold.

This is all very good and well(although if that's the extra power you get from spending that much money, why bother?! ), but while i was there(and had been thinking about it before!), i was talking to jerry, about the Unichip they can supply and fit! £350+VAT, see's it fully fitted and set-up on their rollers. It's a plug in-plug out chip, which therefore, can be removed at ANY time! There's also, a 30 day refund gaurantee, so if i'm not happy with the product,AT ALL, i can get my money back. Now, i WAS thinking about the short shifter, as you know, but someone, who i phoned in regards to purchasing one, never phoned me back(that's the second time, from this guy! Obviously, doesn't need the business! ), so even though, i could have gone elsewhere, i just never got round to buying one yet! So what do i do? The chip should give about 10% more power, to this type f engine and Jeryy mentions, you should see a big difference on the road, as it's so light, even if it did only give me an extra 8-12 BHP! Do i bother with it at all? If i do go for it, i won't be bothering with the short shifter, that's all.

[Moffmo]

do both ya rich get!!

i think your ecu would propably need oto be reproagramed to match you current gains etc, its still running as if it a was a normal tsport.

[drb5]

I thought a normal T-Sport was runing 107 brake and about 90 torque?!

[Yarisboy]

already had a fair wedge spent on it!

i'd go for the chip, after all you've got the 30 day money back option...

it's not so much the extra power you get with a chip, it's the smoothing out of the power and flat spots that make it worth the money.

do it. :)

[drb5]

But there's no problem with the car, at all! It runs super sweet tbh. It is only a wee chip, but i have been there, ihave done it and it doesn't always pay off. If i'm going to do it, it is going to be for a little more power and hopefully sort out the richness at top end.

B)

[armacast]

Keep ur money in your pocket.

If it working leave it alone dont **** with it.

If they were any good dont you think that would be fitted by Toyota.

[Yarisboy]

no they wouldn't be fitted by toyota, one reason - costs.

[GSB]

Keep ur money in your pocket.

If it working leave it alone dont **** with it.

If they were any good dont you think that would be fitted by Toyota.

Do you actually know what a unichip does?

Here, for the hard of learning is a rough guide to what the unichip will do, and why it does it.

When you're driving your engine runs in one of 2 modes... the first is "closed loop". This is during general operation when the Toyota ECU constantly measures the oxygen content of the exhaust gasses in order to maintain the correct fuelling for the catalyst to work properly. The engine thus runds at very good efficiency, and chucks a minimal amount of crap out of the exhaust... It also monitors knock and will adjust ignitoon timing to suit.

The other mode is "open loop". The ECU switches top open loop mode on wide open throttle, and in this mode it ignores the feedback from the O2 sensors and reverts to a base map of fuel and inginiton points. This is good for power, but in ths name of safety it tends to run rich.

Now, toyota build thousands of engines, and thousands of ECU's. They must run with utter reliability at all altitudes, on all grades of fuel. Thus they are tuned for the lowest common denominator.

The Unichip works by intercepting the signals coming from the ECU to the Fuel injectors and the ignition system when the engine is in open loop mode. It allows a trained Unichip operator to adjust these signals so that you get the maximum effiicency at all points on the map. This allows your ECU to be better matched to your type of fuel, the conditions you run your car in. (altitude etc.) The net result of this is that your engine will run better than stock, make more power, and use less juice.

Now, what about all these max power intakes and big bore exhaust that I see on Yaris's every single day? The Toyota open loop map wasn't designed with these in mind, its open loop settings are fixed, and it cannot change to extract any of the benefits of these modifications. Likewise, you can fill your tank with rocket fuel, and your ECU will not take advantage of it and run the different fuelling and ignition advance required to get the best from it. With the Unichip, it can...

SO, why dont Toyota fit these to all cars? Because, you need to allow about 5 hours to adjust each chip. Its mapped to YOUR engine, running YOUR mods, and running YOUR chioce of fuel. They much prefer to have on map that will work on all engines in all locations, and requires no adjuatment betwwen different cars of the same type.

Heres an example of what it can do for you... A 1ZZ-FE engined mk3 MR2 makes 138bhp. doesnt matter where it is or when it was made, it makes 138bhp...

Map it to your own requirements with a unichip though, and it'll make a lot more, and dont just look at the headline bhp figures either, check oout the low down torque...

[kimi]

go for the unichip mate,

i was going to have one on our last car nissan primeraGT,

sold car b4 we got round to it!

power gains and torque are very good and the unichip is reliable.

just one thing...if you do let me know how you get on.

[Chappers]

Nice one GSB..

[drb5]

Doesn't make it any easier to decide, whether or not to go for it, but i doubt i'll do the short shifter at all now!

[minnnt_ts]

go for it mate, then if you dont like it someone on here will buy it off you! wink wink maybe you should just get a supercharger or that compressor jobby...

Minnnt

[kimi]

LOL i think £300 is abit different to £3000!!!!!!!!!

chip seems good value to me and it will solve the over fueling too.

[minnnt_ts]

yes i agree it is abit different but so is the power output! :D

[drb5]

But what do we expect from a super charger or turbo? About 40-50 brake? Then you have all the problems that come with that sort of power! Ful engine rebuild, i would expect, is enevitable and not sonething i wish to go through again, ESPECIALLY for a yaris! Good cars, but if you want those problems, get something that it's worthwhile having it! If we rebuild the engines, where else do we go? What other mods do we do? Cams and then........i don't know?! Other things like porting and flywheels and stuff, are just small things, added together would make a good package, but for what cost?! I would hazard a guess of about 10k would see a nice big power figure, but not useable, as the car itself is too light. Anyways, i would like to do the chip, not a lot of money at all, could sell it on, as kimi says, would sort the fuelling and have a wee bit more power too boot, but not sure at all :(

[Chappers]

Ahh wise words..

How about getting rid of the engine altogether and putting a 2.0l turbo in the boot, rear wheel drive? Just a thought

[drb5]

After tonight, I MIGHT JUST DO THAT!!!!

It's coming to me...........richness, yes..........overfuelling.........hmm........it's coming.........i've got it!!!!!!! :hokus-pokus:

Bang! On comes the light!!!! The light on the DASH that is!!!! Yes, that's right folks! You heard me right! The engine light is back on! So either the lambda sensor is guffed, or the ecu reads the fumes differently when it's fitted AFTER a cat!

Gonna find out if THE UNICHIP reads only 1 lambda, after that, god knows!

So there ya go, don't bother re-fitting the lambda, if you don't have both fitted at the mo!

[GSB]

Bang! On comes the light!!!! The light on the DASH that is!!!! Yes, that's right folks! You heard me right! The engine light is back on! So either the lambda sensor is guffed, or the ecu reads the fumes differently when it's fitted AFTER a cat! 

I'm sorry?

What EXACTLY have you done with your lambda probes?

If you've done what I think you've done, you're lucky your'e engine runs at all...

Anyway the lambda has precisely bugger all to with your problem of richness high up in the rev range. The dyno will have been done at wide open throttle, and, as I stated above, (fairly clearly I thought) the ECU ignores the lambda readings and reverts to a fixed fuel/ignition map at wide open throttle.

However, your random guess that the ecu reads "fumes" differently after a cat is partially right...

Heres what you should have, and I dont think that you do... Very close to the cylinder head you should have one or 2 Lambda probes. These probes are in fact ziconia oxygen sensors, and I'lll refer to them as O2's from now on.

Depending upon the ECU and the manifold design, you'll have a 4 into 2 manifold with a 2 O2 probes measuring the gasses at the points where the 2 individual pipes join, or a 4 into 1 manifold where a single O2 probe is fitted at the collector.

If you have the former, then the Engines ECU effectivley runs your 4 cylinder engine as 2x 2 cylinder units, adjusting the fuel/air mix, and ignition advance for for each pair of cylinders individually.

If you have the latter, then the ECU will run the engine as one entity, and it adjusts the fuel/air/ignition for the engine as whole.

There is also a further O2 sensor fitted after the cat. The ECU measure the feedback signal form this sensor, and compares it to one of the manifold sensors. A functioning cat will alter the gasses composition, and this is detectable by its oxygen content, so the 2 signals will be different. A knackered or missing cat will mean both signals are identical, and this will bring up a CEL (check engine light)

This, I suspect, is why your light is on now.

I also have some serious doubts regarding your manifold O2 probe placement, and would like to know what the stock manifold looks like, compared with your new system, as I think that you could have caused yourself some quite serious problems with throttle response, fuelling, and fault detection.

[drb5]

Eh, pass! Lol. Tbh m8, i don't know, as no-one else seem's to know, what exactly to do with the second O2 sensor! I was told on several occasions, to just replace the second O2 sensor into the pipework and the light should go out, which it did!(It was on before i fitted it.) It has stayed off now, for roughly a week and with no changes in the performance or running of the car. I myself am a panel beater/mechanic and paint sprayer, so i do know a bit about this stuff, besides i have done a massive amount of work on my subaru's beforehand. Not saying i don't take in what your sayin, but there's only so much i can do. It was either replacin the O2 sensor, or fitting some HKS fuel controller thing, that i could run on just 1 of the O2 sensors. You say i'm lucky the engine is running at all?! Why do you say that? If this is true, then everyone on here, has been tellin smelly stuff and were all wrong to say the second O2 sensor should be refitted? Or is it just because of WHERE in the pipework it's fitted? If that's the case, i cannot rectify that. Theres a silencer where it SHOULD be fitted and in theory, it wouldn't make any difference, as there's no CAT. If my last port of call is the HKS doofry, then i guess i'll go there, but considering what Jerry at Dastek told me, i shouldn't have to! If you would like to know what instruments they fit to the cars when they do a run on the rollers, then i'll find out for ya, but that's how he told me it was runnign rich, after 5500 revs!

Cheers, for the interest!

[GSB]

The last O2 sensor in the exhasut, mounted after the cat, has no influence whatsoever on power and performance. Its the one(s) in the manifold that are responsible for this. You can get around the problem by using an "O2 conditioner" which is a very small bit of electronic jiggery-pojery that fools the ECU into thinking theres a healthy cat in place, and this in turn keeps your CEL light from coming on. Even if the light is on due to this though, there will be no poerformance problems, its simply a "health check" function of the ECU.

The main concern I would have, is that you could have the primary O2 sensor(s) is in the wrong place. It sounds as though you only have 2 sensors in total, Yes? (including the one that goes after the cat)

If thats the case, then it looks as though the 2 gas streams from the manifold dont join together until they are well under the car. This means that either the primary, and most important O2 sensor would have to be mounted a long way from the engine (as thats the only place that it can be exposed to gas from all four cylinders), Or the O2 sensor is still in the manifold, but sampling from only one or perhaps 2 cylinders..

If its a long way back, expect rough idle and lousy throttle response on part throttle.

If its sampling 1 or 2 cylinders, rather than all 4, expect rough idle, and if you ever have a problem on on the cylinders that isnt sampled, it could run dangeroulsy lean without the ECU knowing about it. (KaBoom scenario).

Where is the O2 sensor placement on the manifold?

[drb5]

There isn't one in the manifold, unless there are 3 sensors? I will check the original system tomorrow, but the 1st sensor is, as far as i am aware, in the correct place. Bit of a difficult one here for me, as when Nizan had the car, Envy fitted it all, barr the 2nd sensor, which was kept out the way. It's this sensor, which goes after the cat and which put the light on in the first place and ALSO, the one that i have since fitted into a boss, which was welded into the downpipe. Both sensors are in pretty much the same length away from the manifold, but in opposite pipes of the downpipe, as it's a two pipe jobby!

B)

[Crisis]

Wait a min...

Peak brake horse power was 114.5 at 6000 revs.

I thought the Yaris had 150 BHP standard as a T-Sport???!?!?!

[Crisis]

Sorry my bad 105BHP orig. I was thinking of something else.

Stupid me! Hehe.

[drb5]

Just think though bud, standard torque is the EXACT same amount, as what i got on the rollers! :(