Can You Top A Cts

[Aphelion]

My CTS is currently clocking up the miles, tempted to buy another CTS but i have been considering a CTR.

By comparison the CTR is a more back to basic car than the CTS, very little in the car, and i think with my style of driving traction control and DSC are very important.

My ideal car would be a 350z but they are kind of expensive, don't think the ideal car is out there yet? think a CTS sized car with rear wheel drive and better power and handling are what i would look for, i have been looking round all over the place and i don't think this car exists

any ideas?

[XTJC]

Ok fwd I know but how about a clio 182?

[XTJC]

ok..bit smaller I know!!!

[XTJC]

Hope I can give abetter reply this time - Audi S3

[Yarisboy]

i've seen imported RX8's at £16k

how about cars that are 2-3years old?

impreza sti

evo7/8

s2000

TT

bm 330

leon cupra r

s3

list is endless, just go have a look

[System~G]

I think the Cupra-R would be a strong contender.

Is the new BMW 1-Series not RWD?

[tunix]

Aphelion, I'm currently facing the same problem. Decided to sell my CTS because of repetitive quality issues (the warranty period will be over soon). I also considered CTR, but rejected it due to the lack of VSC.

Last weekend I test drove BMW 1 (120d - ~160 PS, RWD). The car is not that fast as CTS, but it's very very fun to drive. The engine is torquey, smooth and quiet. Handling is fantastic, but a bit nervous when the road is in poor shape (pretty common in Poland). Interior design and quality is very good. The car is not that small inside as people say, and there are many interesting options, like very good audio equippment or nice sport seats.

The only thing that concerns me is the reliability. I have no experience with BMW. I'm 100% sure that I don't want to visit a dealer more often than once every 20 kkm. This is the only reason I will probably not decide for this car and go for something Japanese instead. If any of you guys can tell more about BMW reliability, any info appreciated.

Best,

tx

[Yarisboy]

you need to be informed about bmw reliability?

[tunix]

you need to be informed about bmw reliability?

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Yes, I do. Don't know much about those cars. What I've found in the last few days was only some feedback from the owners of pretty old cars.

[T BALL]

bmw will not stand up to what a toyota will endure. german build qaulity is a myth.

[Yarisboy]

lol, attitudes on this site towards anything non-japanese never cease to amaze me.

why don't you go to a bmw forum m8 and ask them about their cars reliability, you'll get most accurate info from the owners themselves.

[T BALL]

i think you will be best informed by people who own toyotas/jap cars, these are the clever people. its all well and good to own one of these german cars- whilst there under warranty, otherwise forget it. my dad runs a fleet of vans, merc sprinters and toyota powervans, the sprinters are useless but theyre the best of a bad bunch, toyota dont make a large panel van. ive also been involved in a number of bmw, audi, vw, merc cars and theyre all useless. most of the people i know who have these cars have sold them and bought toyotas.

[System~G]

My dad used to have a 5-series beemer, which was awesome. It was the most reliable car he had ever had. His Nissan Skyline blew a headgasket shortly after it's very first service. And nissan initially did not want to accept responsibility. They eventually replaced the engine FOC. But the car was still dogged with problems and frequent mechanical faults.

I used to own a VW whach was bought brand new. My experiences have tought me never to buy a VW again. It was a bag of sh**.

Whichever car you buy, whether it be Japanese, German, or god forbid, French - you could land up buying a nail or the best you have ever owned. Unfortunately the is no consistancy on the production lines any more and parts for the cars (regardless of which country the brand name belongs to) are made all over the world.

It's a hit and miss game really. What does count is the customer service offered when things go wrong. The best I have ever received is from Rover/MG & The worst VW.

[Yarisboy]

check out those reliability reports that top gear do, should give you a fair idea. Go to bmw forums and ask them if they're pleased with their cars etc

the more research you do the better

as systemG says though, you could buy a nightmare either way

[Aphelion]

Thanks for all your input, as far as the list of car's build up i think i have to discount a few:

Clio 182 - Girlfriend and i are getting one together, should have it next week :)

I do like the BMW 1 series but don't want to offend anyone by saying i am not the kind of person who would drive a beemer, just from driving around all over the place you tend to notice most BMW drivers seem to think they own the road.

The Audi S3 would be a good choice i realy like the new A3 shape similar to the Corolla, but not sure if there is a current S3 in this shape, gonna have a look at car site's this afternoon.

The Leon Cupra, is that not another FW drive Car??, heard glowing reports about the new Astra SRi some reports saying it handles better than a CTR only problems are front wheel drive and Vauxhall have a bit of a tarnished reputation, seemingly New Astra VXR or something coming soon 240 bhp.

I do honnestly believe the CTS is going to be a hard car to beat for features/price.

[Yarisboy]

no S3 in the new shape yet, only a 3.2 V6 (which alot of audi guys seem to think is faster/better than the old S3)

you'll be pushing on for £30k with a top spec A3 though!

Leon Cupra R is quattro (4wd) afiak, it has the S3 225bhp 1.8T engine... and i'd be very suprised if seat put that power through front wheels when the golf 4motion and audi s3 uses quattro.

edit:

nope, you're right it's fwd... but look at this link, they seem to be saying the cupra R handling is tighter than the S3's quattro effort

suprising

Normally, a front-driver with more that 225 hp going to the wheels is bound to succumb to enormous torque steer, Maxima-style. But thanks to its electronic nannies, the Leon stays composed under acceleration, with front-wheel burnouts still possible with the traction control turned off. There is virtually no noticeable turbo lag under normal acceleration. Turn-in at corners is wonderfully neutral, understeer and oversteer kept at a bare minimum. It is hard to imagine that the Leon is based on the same platform that the soft VW GTI models are built on.

[Aphelion]

Cheers Yaris Boy

That Cupra R is going to be a hell of a car, its a damn shame it's FWD, that has to be it's main down fall, they are right about that car going to be a hell of torque steer. this must be a RS Focus, Megane 225 Rival

The A3 is well going to hurt my wallet, but what a car 4WD with that much power, got to be one hell of a car. don't think i would consider a Golf R32 even if i could afford it.

[Yarisboy]

get an S3 for about £16-17k (will be a year or 2 old)

and then have it remapped to 260-270bhp

custom remaps cost £475

not a bad return i'm sure you'll agree

incidentally, 260+bhp is achievable from any VAG car with the 225bhp engine

[daktari]

Just to add fuel to the reliability issue. My previous car was a BMW E34 M5. Never went near a main dealer, prefering to do the work myself. And apart from tuning, suspension modifications and routine servicing it was the most reliable car i had ever owned. Solid. Well built and virtually bombproof.

Cant really compare it with my GT4 but i would say the Toyota is just a bit better on build quality but not as robust.

Just my 2p`s worth.

[Aphelion]

Thanks again for your input, would say S3 top of my list (even some A3 model with a funky engine) just keen on year old or ex demos at the mo so think it's a bit out my price bracket, this will be a company car.

Nah i know BMW's are good cars, some fast models etc the new M3 is a mental car, just not my car at all, the GT4 is one of the best car's Toyota have made in recent years just a shame they gave up on these type of cars.

[Rolla nutter]

Aphelion, I have 85K trouble free miles with my CTS for the last 18 months, have to change to another new company vehicle... yes the CTS is once again top on my list because of the price / specs... it is a lot cheaper than the CTR £85/month and tax. Also we can only choose our car from Ford, Vauxhall, honda and toyota. But I think I should at least pop down to my local VX garage to have a look at the Astra turbo... otherwise, a silver or grey CTS...

[Nick-Johnson]

Aphelion, I have 85K trouble free miles with my CTS for the last 18 months, have to change to another new company vehicle... yes the CTS is once again top on my list because of the price / specs... it is a lot cheaper than the CTR £85/month and tax.  Also we can only choose our car from Ford, Vauxhall, honda and toyota.  But I think I should at least pop down to my local VX garage to have a look at the Astra turbo...  otherwise, a silver or grey CTS...

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Nuts to the VSC just be careful and buy a Civic Type-R!

Nick

[bartonfink]

For what it's worth, What Car reliability reports and the JD Power Survey all agree that the big German marques are living on their reputation – not reality. I know for a fact that Mercs ain't what they used to be: I have a mate who used to rebuild old Merc estates and saloons, reboring engines and cannibalising parts to create new cars. Before the mid-1990s they were massively over-engineered and you could get them to go to a million miles pretty easily. He had a good business with it. Had to give it up four years ago because the cars just don't have the extra design tolerances any more to allow work. He also tried to do the same with BMWs, but they were never any good.

My own experience is confined to VAG, and I'd seriously warn even my worst enemy against owning a VW or an Audi. I've been involved with four, and every one has been utter crap. Interestingly, that reputation for reliability that they've fostered in the UK through years of marketing is NOT shared in their home country: Germans regard them much as we regard Fords and Vauxhalls. And the UK dealers treat you like ****. Don't fall for it.

[Twincam.GTi]

bartonfink Posted Today, 10:22 AM

  For what it's worth, What Car reliability reports and the JD Power Survey all agree that the big German marques are living on their reputation – not reality. I know for a fact that Mercs ain't what they used to be

Yes this is the impression I get. in the 80's and 90's the Germans produced some very solid and well built cars (and in the late 60' and 70's they made some ace 'street cruise Machines' ...NSU Prinz TT, Opel Commadore, Opel Manta 'Stingray' Ford Granada Coupe, Ford Taunus GT, etc. :D but they rusted like everything from the 60's and 70's ).

Your point about Mercs I agree with from friends experiance, it's as if they are making them from thinner metal!

Aphelion Posted Nov 20 2004, 10:05 AM

I do like the BMW 1 series but don't want to offend anyone by saying i am not the kind of person who would drive a beemer, just from driving around all over the place you tend to notice most BMW drivers seem to think they own the road.

Unfortunatley this is the impression most BMW drivers have given me unless they drive older models such as the 1602 and 2002, then they usually seem very polite .

[Nick-Johnson]

For what it's worth, What Car reliability reports and the JD Power Survey all agree that the big German marques are living on their reputation – not reality. I know for a fact that Mercs ain't what they used to be: I have a mate who used to rebuild old Merc estates and saloons, reboring engines and cannibalising parts to create new cars. Before the mid-1990s they were massively over-engineered and you could get them to go to a million miles pretty easily. He had a good business with it. Had to give it up four years ago because the cars just don't have the extra design tolerances any more to allow work. He also tried to do the same with BMWs, but they were never any good.

My own experience is confined to VAG, and I'd seriously warn even my worst enemy against owning a VW or an Audi. I've been involved with four, and every one has been utter crap. Interestingly, that reputation for reliability that they've fostered in the UK through years of marketing is NOT shared in their home country: Germans regard them much as we regard Fords and Vauxhalls. And the UK dealers treat you like ****. Don't fall for it.

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Not to sure I go with all of that to honest, we have had Mercedes in our family for the past 15 years we currently have a C200 Kompressor Sports Coupe and a E320 CDI Avantgarde both are great car even if built quality is not quite as bulit proof as the old boxy W124 E-Class's of old. I dont think you can say that Mercedes dont screw there cars together properly, having said that we looked at a CLS to replace the E-Class with last week and that felt great. The cabin quality was better the our current E, our dealer said that Mercedes are again becoming a lot stricter on bulit quality!

I personally was not very happy with my Corolla T-Sport build quality, it was for ever rattling but I always managed to cure the noise! I know the facelift models are better and well done Toyota for addressing these issues. My new Honda seems to be well put together but with such a stiff suspension set up on bumpy roads the ride can be a bit crashy but no rattles. In my own opinion the Germans i.e BMW & Mercedes-Benz are still top when it come down to overall car design and bulid quality!

Nick