How Much Lift Is Too Much

[exon16m]

I have posted this in the corolla forum already but have not had any helpful comments:

I am forever being winged at for using lift.

does anyone know how much lift toyata expects the typical user to use and will too much use destroy the engine?

please include as much detail as posible

thankyou

[daktari]

I have posted this in the corolla forum already but have not had any helpful comments:

I am forever being winged at for using lift.

does anyone know how much lift toyata expects the typical user to use and will too much use destroy the engine?

please include as much detail as posible

thankyou

←

I dont see how you can use 'too much' lift.

Toyota must realise that all sorts of different drivers are going to drive their cars and in different ways, I would think considerable time and expense would have gone into designing and developing an engine thats going to be as reliable as the rest of the Toyota range.

Ultimately, if you rag the ***** off it, it will wear faster than an engine thats had an easier life. But this will have been taken into consideration by the engineers during the engines development, so your still going to have a healthy motor for some considerable time provided certain safeguards are applied. e.g. Regular oil changes and servicing.

DRIVE IT LIKE IT WAS MADE TO BE DRIVEN.

[mikeb]

I dont see how you can use 'too much' lift.

Toyota must realise that all sorts of different drivers are going to drive their cars and in different ways, I would think considerable time and expense would have gone into designing and developing an engine thats going to be as reliable as the rest of the Toyota range.

Ultimately, if you rag the ***** off it, it will wear faster than an engine thats had an easier life. But this will have been taken into consideration by the engineers during the engines development, so your still going to have a healthy motor for some considerable time provided certain safeguards are applied. e.g. Regular oil changes and servicing.

DRIVE IT LIKE IT WAS MADE TO BE DRIVEN. 

←

Unfortunately (from what I have read on here and at celica-club), Mr T does seem to have (unusually for them) dropped a <the spuds of lurrrrvve> on the design of the lift mechanism. I don't know if the lift bolts wear down until they fail, or if they shear simply because they are underspecified for the job. People have had them let go after 12k miles, and for others they have lasted much longer. Without knowing how much lift each driver has used it is impossible to predict if they wear or just fail.

The more often you use 'lift', they more likely they are to let go. Mr T can't really use the argument "you weren't supposed to rev the engine very often", especially on a supposedly 'sporty' engine.

I don't think Mr T want's to acknowledge the problem yet, but I think this issue will come back to bite them when the engines have done more miles and they have sold more of them. The trouble is, if they do fail, many owners won't even realise, so the problem will only come to light if the broken bits of bolt end up doing some damage to then engine (could be very expensive to fix). Also, now they are putting the engine in the Elise, the issue might start to get more publicity.

I read somewhere that it is impossible to swap to bigger (i.e. stronger) lift bolts without replacing the cylinder head, so you can see why they don't want to accept responsibility for it. I think the bolts are already made from a hardened material, maybe they will come up with some even stronger ones. I suspect that, for the next generation of engine, they will either redesign the lift mechanism, or upgrade to larger bolts.

[daktari]

I dont see how you can use 'too much' lift.

Toyota must realise that all sorts of different drivers are going to drive their cars and in different ways, I would think considerable time and expense would have gone into designing and developing an engine thats going to be as reliable as the rest of the Toyota range.

Ultimately, if you rag the ***** off it, it will wear faster than an engine thats had an easier life. But this will have been taken into consideration by the engineers during the engines development, so your still going to have a healthy motor for some considerable time provided certain safeguards are applied. e.g. Regular oil changes and servicing.

DRIVE IT LIKE IT WAS MADE TO BE DRIVEN. 

←

Unfortunately (from what I have read on here and at celica-club), Mr T does seem to have (unusually for them) dropped a <the spuds of lurrrrvve> on the design of the lift mechanism. I don't know if the lift bolts wear down until they fail, or if they shear simply because they are underspecified for the job. People have had them let go after 12k miles, and for others they have lasted much longer. Without knowing how much lift each driver has used it is impossible to predict if they wear or just fail.

The more often you use 'lift', they more likely they are to let go. Mr T can't really use the argument "you weren't supposed to rev the engine very often", especially on a supposedly 'sporty' engine.

I don't think Mr T want's to acknowledge the problem yet, but I think this issue will come back to bite them when the engines have done more miles and they have sold more of them. The trouble is, if they do fail, many owners won't even realise, so the problem will only come to light if the broken bits of bolt end up doing some damage to then engine (could be very expensive to fix). Also, now they are putting the engine in the Elise, the issue might start to get more publicity.

I read somewhere that it is impossible to swap to bigger (i.e. stronger) lift bolts without replacing the cylinder head, so you can see why they don't want to accept responsibility for it. I think the bolts are already made from a hardened material, maybe they will come up with some even stronger ones. I suspect that, for the next generation of engine, they will either redesign the lift mechanism, or upgrade to larger bolts.

←

Hmmm. Indeed, Mr T has dropped a rather large one. Id heard of a couple of probs with wear to the lift bolts( Could arguably be down to lack of maintenence). Didn`t realise they were having shearing problems as well. Not good. Thanks for the info.

[thecanadian]

Gents and Gals,

A local rolla T-sport owner here. As far as I'm aware the lift bolt issue seems to only be an issue across the pond in North America. I have not heard of many going in celica's in UK/Europe. And, have not heard of one corolla t-sport shearing the lift bolts.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[mikeb]

As far as I'm aware the lift bolt issue seems to only be an issue across the pond in North America. I have not heard of many going in celica's in UK/Europe. And, have not heard of one corolla t-sport shearing the lift bolts.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

←

They are definitely a problem on UK celicas. If the corolla has the same engine, then I can't see any reason why it wouldn't have the same issues.

[dmjuk]

the 190 engine used in the lotus, was selected by lotus because it had already passed the 100k test in america, obviously you dont how much lift is used in the test but they must try n simulate normal drivin conditions. has mr t specified a life expectancy for the bolts

[thecanadian]

MikeB,

Please, back-up your statement.

How many on this forum have had their bolts replaced - if any?

Perhaps we should set-up a poll?

[mikeb]

the 190 engine used in the lotus, was selected by lotus because it had already passed the 100k test in america, obviously you dont how much lift is used in the test but they must try n simulate normal drivin conditions. has mr t specified a life expectancy for the bolts

←

Do you know if they changed the lift bolts during that 100k mile test?

There are revised lift bolts available (they have a taper to reduce stress), but I think there are reports that these also wear, albeit at a reduced rate. They are probably fitting these to all new engines. I guess time will tell if they still not satisfactory.

[mikeb]

MikeB,

Please, back-up your statement.

How many on this forum have had their bolts replaced - if any?

Perhaps we should set-up a poll?

←

There don't seem to be many active gen 7 owners on TOC forums, mostly gen 5 and 6 driver around here.

Go to celica-club.co.uk forums and do a search for 'lift' in the gen 7 section. I don't have any personal experience, but there are some interesting stories on there.

[VVTLIProbe]

I agree with everything "mikeb" has said ref the lift bolts, they will wear and eventually shear over time. Yes new lift bolts have been made available and they will also wear......... This is a design problem no wonder Mr. T. is keeping quiet about this as it would cost £'ssssssssss to rectify with recalls. Persions out of warintee are at the foremost to incure paying for costs and dammage which the bolts may cause. This WILL effect every owner of the 1.8 VVTLI engine around the world. Toyota should offer a no quibble check and free fitting of bolts / repair to every owner regardless in or out of warintee for this issue. I would also espect that 85% of dealership no nothing about this which does'nt surpirse me as most don't have a clue !!!.

Cough Oil pump issue :bookworm: some of you might already know about this could be a future problem over here.

[Leeky]

I think the lift bolts problem was only on the pre-facelift 190'sand t-sports.

Since the facelift toyota have addressed the problem i believe, and since the corolla tsport came out the sametime the celica got the facelift they must be ok too

[exon16m]

Thank you very much ... a much better responce than in the corolla forum

I would be intrested to know if anyone knows how they tested this enging to simulate normal driving ie what % of the time was during lift etc

also do you know when the new bolt design was fitted i have an 2002 CTS ?

[dmjuk]

Do you know if they changed the lift bolts during that 100k mile test?

There are revised lift bolts available (they have a taper to reduce stress), but I think there are reports that these also wear, albeit at a reduced rate. They are probably fitting these to all new engines. I guess time will tell if they still not satisfactory.

←

it was in EVO i read about it, cant find the issue, im not sure what the criteria for the test is

[thecanadian]

I think the lift bolts problem was only on the pre-facelift 190'sand t-sports.

I have to agree. There has only been 1 or 2 mentions of the revised bolts sheering on the American forums - compared with 7 - 10 of the previous gen bolts.

This does not mean the bolts will not shear. It just means that it's not happening as often.

Plus, how many of us are keeping our cars over the 100k miles mark these days?

[thecanadian]

Just for you celica boy's and Gal's...

List of TSB's for the 2zz-ge version in NA.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread...=&threadid=4338

Regards.

[Nick-Johnson]

Are the LIFT blot lubricated by the engine oil if so would this have anything to do with their life expectancy?

Nick