K And N Air Fliter

[Imek]

One more thing,

BlackRat wrote:

6 TRD - C-ONE Close Ratio gear seT no hp gain, rev's dont fall the lift point

So heres another one who doesn't land in the lift...

[vaggelis]

Imek i think that if you upshift a few revs before 8200....at 8150+ for instance and you make a perfect shifting then you might land in 6200......but its very difiicult and it is rarely successful B) B)

[Imek]

And provided you have strong back wind and going downhill. Now I agree.

[spwolf]

And provided you have strong back wind and going downhill. Now I agree.

sorry dude... but if you upshift at 8,200 you land around 6,100-6,200 it might be hard to dose it sometimes since you have to do it near perfect - i am talking about 2nd to 3rd upshift here which is the one the most important to myself, since thats what you usually do during overtaking here...

if you are trying to convince me that it is fine for K&N filter in 2zzge to lose 80 hp @ 7,900 RPM compared to stock, you are simply wrong......... if your cut off is fine at 8,200, then you dont have that much HP drop as shown on that dyno and your ecu has probably adjusted itself which is what i believe was the issue...

try revving up to 8,100 and see if you notice a HUGE drop in power at 7,900... that drop should feel as if you have hit something quite large... if it doesnt, then just rev up to 8,200 and then change gears... you will be going much faster all together

And also - dude, i would love for K&N filter to be perfect addition to my Corolla TS, heck i am looking into induction kits as it is... but if I did it, and they show me that dyno run without explanation, i would ask them to get that thing out of my car right away ;-)

and if phil3345 tested another TS and didnt notice engine shutting off at 7,900 rpm, then everything should be fine and it was the ecu

[Imek]

1. Hey now you're sayn' that you land in 6100 - 6200 2nd to 3rd. That's totally different than landing in lift 1st to 2nd. So check again to what revs you drop after each shift and compare TORQUE figures.

2. I'm not convincing you. I'm just curious why you dont get that its best to upshift at peak power, so what happens then doesnt really matter. I shift at peak power even with paper filter - thats 7500 rpm. Sometimes a bit further. Never at 8200.

3. When I rev the engine till 8200 i dont feel hitting anything. You know why? Because of momentum the car already has.... :o

Just try to understand: reving past max power is pointless because you have less and less power (doesnt matter how much less), and little torque, so the engine doesnt pull anymore, even though it seems to you that its pulling!!

Try imagine:

You start on a bicycle. At the beginning you have biggest gear at the back wheel. You quickly reach your speed (torque), you still have power (power+torque) and you re kicking faster and faster (power), but you get a little speed increase on this gear (less torque, close to max power) - even if you started kicking faster, the pedals would rotate faster than you can move your legs, and you would not gain antything, just loose time for fruitless kicking. And this is where you excedeed max power point. (happens on a bike going downhill, when you select wrong gear).

Then you upshift (one gear down in a bike) and at first it seems so hard (again its torque), but after a few kicks it gets easier and easier (torque raises + power increase)), then you kickikn as fast as you can (max power), but cannot kick faster (no torque, power close to max), you kick a bit faster (exceeding max power point), and again, surprise!, your pedals are faster than you are!!!!

And now answer:

Which biker is faster:

A. One who keeps kicking at each gear till the pedals go faster than his legs?

B. One that shifts just when he feels that he cannot kick any faster?

[Jake]

another week gone by and still no Blizt kit fiitted to my CTS, will ring garage again on monday, but go on holidays for two weeks next friday, so it may be three weeks, before the kit is fitted :(

Will let you all know as soon as it's done ;)

[phil3345]

THose figures quoted were not for my car it still revs past 8000 no probs.

I will have my test in 2 weeks

[spwolf]

imek - its all good dude... if you ever see another TS next to you at the traffic light, you will lose that gran prix ;-)... but its all good ;-)

phil3345 and jake will post real dynos, just make sure that you ask about anything that might seem strange guys... i am prolly going to get full induction kit, like jake is, except no1's selling blitz around here so i might have to buy something else

[Imek]

spwolf:

Just tell me, why are you doing this?

Proving that you have no idea about how engines work and generally no idea about driving car?

Ok, so now, pliiiiiz explain me, why I'd loose 1/4 mile race with you. Just do it clearly, so I can understand. Please.

[Yarisboy]

Proving that you have no idea about how engines work and generally no idea about driving car?

wow that's a little harsh!

[Imek]

No, that's not. It's just true. Read what spwolf writes, and consider his only argument, which is "NO", and you'll agree with me.

BTW, I talked to my friends today asking them how to prove spwolf is wrong. I told them what arguments I used, and they said, if this didn't convince him, leave him alone in his dreams, let him believe what he knows.

I agreed, so for me EOT.

[Monster-Mat]

without getting involved ...........

1 person is technically correct, but allowing no room for individual cases, and abnormalitys that all vehicles and electronics produce

1 person i can see where there coming from, but they are missing the laws of mechanics to get there point across

i think peeps should give each other a little room.......go and look at the facts and come to a more friendly agreement.

some peeps understand things on limited understandings on whats known.

others take that understanding, and dont voice it to the best of there ability.

a little understanding can be a dangerous thing....to much can be crippling

[Monster-Mat]

induction kits are not the bee all and end all of air filtration.

a good standerd airbox can be as good as a bad induction kit.

cold dense air is what is required, i have seen a recent test in which the standerd airbox actually with aftermarket panel filter produced more HP/Torque than a high priced branded induction kit

if its looks........get the induction kit

if its functionality...get a panel filte, but only if you know your airbox flows well, or given some modification would flow well

my race car actually performed better with the std airbox, over a normal induction kit..........untill we were allowed to direct air into the induction kit

[spwolf]

I didnt really mean to sound harsh or anything, if I did I am sorry... but when it comes to 2zz-ge engine, shifting at 7,500 rpm is not faster than shifting at red line due to 2zz-ge's high speed cam switch over at 6,200... it is quite easy to see once you check that dyno chart of yours, and it is even easier to spot when you drive your car... you can time your self going 80-120 (2nd to 3rd gear) if you wish, and shift gears at 7,500 rpm and at 8,200 and see whats faster...ask some of your friends to time it for you...

I dont really care about arguing, and all of your arguments are esentially correct, with exception of 2zzge or Honda's VTEC engines... it is easy for someone to support your theory which is again correct, with exception of those engines

another issue was your ECU rev limitin your engine at 7900, according to that dyno of yours...which you say it doesnt happen but you do lose 85 HP at 7900 rpm which is pretty much what hittin a rev limiter should look like ;-)... I gave probable explanation about that (ECU needing time to readjust) but you brushed it all away with simple statement that your rev limiter is still fine at 8,200 ;-)...

you are getting too defensive about your own car, which is unreasonable since i have exactly the same car...

[phil3345]

Hi sp the figures quoted were not from my car but it is me that is saying that it revs past 8000 not imek.

But I will have my own figures soon cant wait

Cheers mate

[Imek]

Ok, now you're talking.

The harsh thing was for me, not you.

Still don't agree with you, will do clocking, Peace.

EOT.

:)

[Imek]

Hi sp the figures quoted were not from my car but it is me that is saying that it revs past 8000 not imek.

But I will have my own figures soon cant wait

Cheers mate

Hey, I also said my revs even past 8200 into redline.

[phil3345]

Cool then we can all redline together sounds like a new craze :D

[spwolf]

Hi sp  the figures quoted were not from my car but it is me that is saying that it revs past 8000 not imek.

But I will have my own figures soon cant wait

Cheers mate

Hey, I also said my revs even past 8200 into redline.

yep - cus TS has quite "soft" red line, depending on conditions it will sometimes let you above 8,200 rpm... which is why i wondered about that 7,900 with K&N - that 85 HP drop should feel like engine shut down, and you reported going up to red line... you should have felt it and if you didnt, then ur ECU is prolly adjusted. I bet your new dyno would show that...

ttyl!

[vaggelis]

a silly hypothesis......but maybe the man who ran the dyno-test lef the accelerator at that point B)

(dont start throwing objects :P )

[Jake]

Damm Guy's,

I've just read all this again from the very first posting, now I'm certainly no tech head, and was fitting the Blitz induction kit to my CTS, coz of a lot of things I've read about them, and from comments mates of mine with many different cars, have made about the benefits of id kits, So here I am still waiting for mine to arrive, and even more confused than before as to the true benefits, guess I'll only really know once I get the test done.

As well as not being a tech head, I would also make no claim to being a great driver, fast yes when conditions allow, and I must admit, that today they did allow, and so I tried something, and after achieving it once, stop and tried again, some of you may say, this may not be good for the car, but believe me when I say it was great for me, and even better second time, but I can honestly say, that for me at least it is possible to go from first to fifth gear, and stay above 6200rpm in each gear, engine does sound like its really screaming in first but after this its just fantastic, you do have to hit that change as near perfect on each change, and I have now doubt that the TTE quick shift will make this eve easier, just wish I could get in fitted.

Now I'm sure there's a few will doubt my claim, and that’s ok by me, but all I know for sure is, the experience is exhilarating, the sound fantastic, and the grin will last a few weeks, but I won't be doing it that often as it sure does drink the petrol

. :D :D :D

[Jake]

AAAAAARRGGGGGgggggghhhhh,

Blitz induction kit has arrived, but I can't get it fitted before my holidays, it's now booked in for the 2nd June, but at least I can't drive the car while I'm away ;)

[phil3345]

I cant wait till you have it fitted I want to know how loud it is inside the car.

[phil3345]

Now that I have the filter any suggestions for the air box??

[spwolf]

i am still waiting for Jake to install his stuff and post dyno...blitz induction kit should be good