Watch Your Selfs

[gus]

just had an SMS text of a very good friend of mine who shall remain nameless for ovious reasons but enough to say he drives a white car with orange stripes and blue lights on the top....

there is a new mobile speed camera in the Oxfordshire/Wiltshire districts which is mounted to the top of a White ford Transit. it it being placed in layby's and slip roads on prominent roads around the two counties and is ACTIVE its not a dumby....... :cacker:

lets be careful out there its a jungle

[Ken]

That goes for north yorkshire as well,wife's friend is married to a TC said white van as well.Have to get some type of detection device methinks.

[TheNissanMan]

merci besucoup monsiuer.....

Will keep eye's peeled those dam little :censor: :censor: :censor: :censor: :censor: .... that's better

[Ken]

Just remembered there was an article about this in the local rag.In my area it will be targeting the A64 at whitwell hill and the malton bypass also around scarborough on the A165,A170,A171 and A64 so guess that's every road going out apart from the forrestry road :cacker: I'm assuming it will be based at the ARV depot at easingwold will have to have a little mosey over and see if i can spot it.

[gus]

Going to have conversation over the phone with the man in the know tonight so will post after finish with phone line on this forum any other information i can windle out of him....... he's a good mate and not one for the perverbial bull so should be pretty good gen....

[Steve Ratcliffe]

We like bent coppers... :D

[Ken]

Nice one gus,can you try and find out if it has got anything that would give it away like a raised section on the roof.

[gus]

sorted avensis,

that one i already know,,,,,,it has a panel in the roof which is removeable and the camera comes out of the roof on hydrolics and looks exactly the same as the ones you see on the side of the road...........there will be a non-perminent sign about 150yards before the camera stating "mobile speed detection in operation" or words to that effect. with out the sign they are in breach of your civil liberties....

[Ken]

Thanks gus,i was wondering about the legalites of just setting a van up and trying to catch people out.So if they have got the sign up it gives plenty of time to check the speed you are doing and adjust if needed and it will stick out like a sore thumb with the roof mounted camera,nice one.

[TheNissanMan]

How do they go about testing the calibration on this machine if it's mobile as surelythey would have to calibrate it when they stopped as the movement of the vehicle carrying it could risk it being disaligned ?

[gus]

Now you getting far too technical ryan,,,,,answer is .............

i haven't got a F :censor: :censor: k :censor: :censor: g clue

dont think mate will either as its not manned by the force its run by an outside agency. from what i can gather it works on the same principle as the static camera's

flash, bang, picture, letter in post, 3 points, £40 down the drain... :ffs:

[TheNissanMan]

Static camera's are calibrated on installation and as they are static don't need re-calibrating that often....

With an objecttat moves the calibration would haveto be recorded and tested to prove the :censor: :censor: :censor: :censor: are getting a recording of your true speed I would assume....

When you get the NIP through the door and feel like :ffs: :ffs: :ffs: would be nice to receive a calibration note on the photo as well rather than just looking for

These new smilies are getting used a fair :bookworm: (whack) aren't they

[Ken]

Wasn't there a case a little bit ago where someone didn't sign the ticket that came though the post but did fill in his details and by law that was all they asked of him so it got thrown out of court.Have the goverment managed to close that loophole yet or not.

[gus]

they must have found some way of doing it or all the tickets would be invalid and it qould have been another waste of tax payers money.......(not that thats happening every day). will try to find out answers to the questions posted tonight and will post after 7pm

happy polishing and scrubbing to all those going to japfest and see you all saturday if we dont post before......

[97paseo]

There was a loop hole - it meant you had to state who was driving but if you didn't sign it the ticket became null & void, not sure if they have sorted it yet.

Kent police have one of those vans by the way. ;)

Also - those warning signs are only applicable to SOME devices, I've had an on-going convo with local police about this, they are able to operate various devices without warning, i.e hiding behind parked cars as I saw them doing, when I asked the officer what why he was hiding he didn't like it...

Can post police formal response if anyone wants. Bunch of > :arrgg-matey:

Need a radar detector! :P :D

[TheNissanMan]

I think this is the case Paseo was refering to....

Recently discussed on IMOC....

IN THE BRISTOL CROWN COURT CASE no: a20020257

ON APPEAL FROM THE BATH MAGISTRATES' COURT B E T W E E N:

John Pickford

Appellant

and

The Crown Respondent

BEFORE H.H. JUDGE TICEHURST ON THE 13TH DECEMBER 2002

Mark Laprell for Mr. Pickford

Mr G Mullin for the Crown Prosecution Service

CASE REPORT THE FACTS

On the 14th February 2002 a car of which the Defendant was the registered keeper was caught by a speed camera exceeding the speed limit for the road which was 30 mph. The Police issued a Notice of intended Prosecution which incorporated a request for information that would lead to the identity of the driver as required by Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

The form was returned to the police. It identified the Defendant as having been the driver but was unsigned. The Defendant was summoned on charges of (1) speeding and (2) failing to comply with his obligation under Section 172 to identify the driver. The Defendant pleaded not guilty to both charges and the case was tried by the Bath Magistrates Court on the 7th October 2002.

THE HEARING BEFORE THE JUSTICES

At the conclusion of the prosecution case Counsel for the Defendant submitted that there was no case to answer on the charge of speeding on the ground that there was no evidence that the Defendant had been the driver of the car. The form was inadmissible as evidence since, as it was unsigned, it did not amount to a "Statement in Writing" as provided for by Section 12 (1) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. The prosecution accepted this but argued that the unsigned form should be regarded as a voluntary confession and was therefore admissible under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. The Defendant argued that the form could not amount to a confession and that, in any event, it was not voluntary The Justices found that the unsigned form did amount to a voluntary confession under PACE and was therefore admissible. After hearing evidence from the Defendant he was convicted on the charge of speeding but the charge under Section 172 was dismissed.

The Defendant appealed against his conviction on the speeding charge.

THE APPEAL

The Appeal was allowed. The unsigned statement could not amount to a confession if only because there was no evidence that it was the Defendant who made it. That being the case, the Court did not have to go on to consider whether or not it was made voluntarily or otherwise complied with the requirements of PACE.

Given that it was accepted that the unsigned form did not amount to a "statement" in writing" pursuant to Section 12 of RTOA 1988 there was therefore no evidence that the Defendant had been driving the car at the appropriate time.

The Court accepted that there was a lacuna in the law in that although the registered keeper is under a duty to identify the driver he is not required to make a witness statement to that effect. While this might be an unattractive finding it was not the Court's function to fill in or remedy defective legislation. This was the function of Parliament. Reported by John Josephs, Solicitor, of Turner Coulston, 15 Station Road, Kettering Northants NN15 7HH.

As approved by His Honour Judge Ticehurst

[dawesy]

just a note for any one in notts. two cameras have gone up near B&Q Depot as you head into the city centre. no warning, nothing. good job i was in traffic or i could have been very

ps like the new smilies thanx to whoever was responsible

[gus]

ok spoke to the man in the know.........

not a lot more gen than i have already posted apart from they will be operating in the oxford and wiltshire areas for the next two months (may and june) on a trial period, basically to see how many they catch to see if the project is going to be cost affective.

aparantly these vans cost a !Removed! fortune. there are approx 12 throughout the country. he will let me know the outcome of the trial when he knows.....

sorry cant be any more help......but he also has his job to think about.... :arrgg-matey:

[ae111sr]

I saw one just this evening on my way home from work between Cardiff and Barry with a patrol car in the layby on the other side of the road just waiting to take off. Pointless being there really as it was nose to tail at 30mph in a 50 limit :o

Something else that I heard today was that the traffic cameras on the Welsh section of the M4 are going to be used for continuous speed monitoring :ffs: :ffs: :ffs:

[zee007]

just a note for any one in notts. two cameras have gone up near B&Q Depot as you head into the city centre. no warning, nothing. good job i was in traffic or i could have been very

ps like the new smilies thanx to whoever was responsible

noooooooooooo.......... :ffs:

[phil3345]

this is an email from someone i know at neath/port talbot bc.

> Subject: New M4 speed cameras

>

>

> We should ALL take note

>

> As of the 14th July 2003 information boards CONTAINING SPEED CAMERAS that

> calculate average speed over 1 mile sections will go live on the M4

(Wales).

> These cameras continually re-asses your speed and are linked to the DVLA

etc

> and can issue fines / points. They have been on trial for a while but now

> they go live.

>

> Please pass onto any one who may use the Wales stretch of the M4

Oh Dear its coming soon to all the uk!!!!!

[phil3345]

Sorry Neath Port talbot is in Wales

[97paseo]

Hmmm, this thread gets worse!!! I'm gonna have to sell my car & start using those scabby things on rails...t..r.a.i..n..s...whatever they are :D

Thanks for the info tho phil , I occasionally get inside info like this but its normally very localised.

[atoyotbob]

Theres a Transit van type thing up here in Jockland with a camera mounted on a telescopic pole, but its not for speeders its for road tax and insurance dodgers, the camera is linked to DVLA and reads the no plate then it can tell if the vehicle is taxed mot'd and insured.

Bob. :ffs:

[longhallage]

I've just ordered a second hand radar/laser detector from eBay. I'll ley you all know if it is effective. Obviously it will not work on the new average speed cameras.

Snooper SD 815 is. Second hand £82 on eBay. RRP £200. This unit is apparently prone to false positive readings, so chirps away merrily. It does (by report) give adequate warning of fixed gatsos and sneaky fuzz behind cars.

As I said, I'll let you know when it arrives. I will, within the next few weeks have the chance to test it in London, M4, Somerset and Wales.

Thanks for the M4 camera post, you probably saved my bacon as I'm going that way for some fast driving in Wales as soon as my irksome exams are over.

Thanks, Nick