Help From The Celica Boffins Please

[Celica Chris]

Hi guys and gals,

I am after some advice... well actually all the advice you care to throw at me.

I am looking to buy a Celica GT4 WRC. ST205

Now my aims are to stick to a £6000-£7000 budget if possible.

I wanted a GT4 but in looking around i am falling for the WRC body styling. I know its possible to DIY with body kits spoilers and skirts etc but i would rather have a genuine WRC.

So here is where ur help comes in... am i right in thinking there are only 2500 wrcs that have been made? A simple autotrader search shows 3 up for sale now in my price range... which i find suprising due to the numbers made...

Also.. are they import only? And with imports are there any red flags i should keep an eye out for? I have heard or many good and bad things with importing.. ranging from "dont get an import because you cant get parts in the uk"... to "why not import and possible make some money on the car?"

Has anyone here imported privatly or through a company?

Then some more general questions such as the reliability of these turbo'd beasts.

One thing that came to mind it that maybe people sell the gt4s and possibly other celicas just before the 60,000 mile mark so they avoid the large service. Is that right? Does the major service (which i would guess included cam belt and clutch) happen at 60,000 and how much does it cost if it does? Last thing i want is to get a car then immeadiatly have to fork out a grand on a service i cant afford.

Who has a GT4 WRC and can tell me the differences to the standard GT4...

Oh so many questions... Please help me out.. and enable me to be part of your gang =)

Thanks in advance for your help,

Chris.

(ah happy valentines too ;) )

[gordypix]

OK - I know ZIP about GT4's except that they are BRILLIANT examples of the Celica model

Hang around for a bit because you will get the GT4 bods online soon I expect who will give you the 411 on all good & bad about the car.

Well done for choosing Celica and a very warm WELCOME to TOC

[mikeb]

Hi there! Blimey, lots of questions.

I think there are genuine UK models of the WRC celica, but they are very rare. I think 2500 is worldwide, so 3 cars on autotrader for sale in the UK is probably pretty good.

I don't think there is any practical advantage of a WRC model over standard GT4. The only extra parts that were added were those required on the rally cars, and while they are in place on the homologation models, they are not functional.

The disadvantage of import ST205's is that they must run on super unleaded (they are specced for 100 RON in Japan), whereas UK GT4's can run on 95 RON unleaded. Insurance on imports can be crippling for some cars compared to their UK equivalents. Not sure if this applies to the gt4, Maleborn? Mechanical parts for the UK and Japan gt4s are mostly identical. I think their is a buyers guide on the gt4oc website

Reliability wise: engine+turbo = pretty much bombproof, gearbox = unlikely to go wrong. One weakness is the front suspension, it's different to standard celicas, prone to wearing out, and new parts are expensive.

I would say it's much better to buy a car already in the country, than go to the trouble of importing one. By the time the importers fees are paid, and the car is roadworthy, it will add a considerable amount to the price, which you won't recouperate when you sell it on. IMO it is only economical to import much newer, hence more expensive cars. Also can look at it first if it is in the UK, and check for any potential problems.

A cam belt would definitely be required by 60,000 miles, I thought the service interval was 48000 miles. The 3s-gte engine is 'non-interference' anyway, so it's not the end of the world if it does break. It shouldn't cost any more to change than a standard celica, so less than £200. Clutches should be good for 100k miles, but that is totally dependent on the previous owners' driving style.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

2500 of the first batch of 5000 were wrc ,there isnt much difference between a wrc and a non wrc verion, and the parts that make a wrc a wrc dont work anyways.look on www.st205.net for the comparisons in the technical sections.as for the service , major points are the superstrut suspension which goes around 60 to 70 k at a cost of around £700 to £1000 depending where you buy the parts and who fits them, a clutch can be done for around £400 to £1500 depending on what bhp you want to run depends on which clutch plate you fit.the rear diff mount also needs to looked at as this also can be a problem area if left unchecked,most parts for the jap version and the uk version are the same , apart from maybe brake discs and pads.my gt4 is an import it came with very rare full service history is a 1994 model and is immaculate as if its the day it was made has 67,000 miles on it and drives like a dream ,they are very reliable if left as stock , begin to mess with bhp and ultimately problems will arise.the jap version needs to run on optimax at all times and is around 255 bhp the uk variant i think is around 238 bhp.change the oil for fully synthetic every 3000 miles and you'll be ok.i got mine insured with norwich union who insure imports as uk variants if the reg number is on their database and the car is totally standard cost me £398 fully comp ,7 yrs no claims.

other sites of interest are http:\\gtfour.supras.org.nz and www.gt4oc.net

[Calisto]

Welcome to the club and Happy Valentines day to you :D I have a GT-R and not a GT4 <_<

But she is an import :) and the insurnace does cripple me every month but she is worth it.

Ash B)

[daktari]

Yay Welcome to TOC. :D

Good choice of car. The ST205 is a storming motor. Almost as good as the 185. :P

Once again. Welcome.

[Celica Chris]

Thanks Guys your all too kind.

Ok more questions.

The thing that concerns me most is having to run a Jap import on Optimax (98 RON?) at all times. Mainly because of availability. This leads me to 2 questions.

Do Non Jap imports versions of the GT4 WRC exist? Did they ever export the WRC to the UK?

What can be done to have an import run on lower octane fuel? I presume to avoid thinks like pinking it is possible to change the timings?

For sake of ease, if there is no WRC version that will not run on readily available fuel then the GT4 is the next option.

What are the differences other than the spoiler and the extra bhp to the non WRC? (ignore the disabled rally components like the anti lag, and intercooler water jets) Mainly is the body kit the same bar the spoiler extension blocks?

Ummm what else... hehehe

Ah yeah, Where u get your GT4s serviced and how much a standard service cost you? Say brakepads oils filters etc...

[sotal]

Why do you want a WRC model?

They look exactly the same as the GT4 - the body styling is exactly the same. The spoiler may look bigger on the WRC than some GT4's but that was because the riser blocks were an option for the GT4 but standard on the WRC. You can buy these to add to a GT4 if it doesn't have them - and they just sit between the boot lid and the spoiler.

The only things the WRC model has are some useless water injection things and bits like that. They have to be there to show they made a road worthy model with them on, but they are not connected and don't do anything and you can't see them (unless you know where to look under the bonnet)

I would get a nice GT4 (if I could afford the insurance :D ) You will get a nice UK GT4 in that price range

If you do go for the Jap Import and you struggle to get Optimax where you live you can buy a few bottles of Octane booster and keep them in the car - then when you can only fill up with regular petrol, stick a bit of that in too!

[Kevstir]

Hey m8 might be worth keeping and eye on http://www.gt4oc.net as there always cars up for sale there , best bet is to look for one that the owner has a good post count on the forum at least that way theres a better chance the owner has looked after the car . plus you can always trace the history of the car through the post history :D

Kev

[daktari]

Thanks Guys your all too kind.

Ok more questions.

The thing that concerns me most is having to run a Jap import on Optimax (98 RON?) at all times.  Mainly because of availability.  This leads me to 2 questions.

Do Non Jap imports versions of the GT4 WRC exist? Did they ever export the WRC to the UK?

What can be done to have an import run on lower octane fuel? I presume to avoid thinks like pinking it is possible to change the timings?

For sake of ease, if there is no WRC version that will not run on readily available fuel then the GT4 is the next option.

What are the differences other than the spoiler and the extra bhp to the non WRC? (ignore the disabled rally components like the anti lag, and intercooler water jets)  Mainly is the body kit the same bar the spoiler extension blocks?

Ummm what else... hehehe

Ah yeah, Where u get your GT4s serviced and how much a standard service cost you? Say brakepads oils filters etc...

←

Cant really comment on Gen 6`s but all i will say is that GT4`s are brilliant cars whichever model you buy. Comparatively easy to work on. Parts are plentiful and not too pricey.

As for servicing. Buy service parts from MrT and either do the work yourself or get a good independent garage to do it for you. Or if your really rolling in it get MrT to do it.

[Celica Chris]

Thanks again guys.

Sounds like i will be buying a GT4 Uk edition due to the Octane ratings of the Jap WRC imports. :(

Pity.. I love the celica gt4 and would like nothing more than to own one of the few 2500 (and probably getting less) WRC in existance.

I know most people wouldnt know the difference, (such as the small spoiler on the bonnet by the window wipers) but thats not the poit.. i would know :D

Having said that a standard GT4 is still a dream car to me and im getting very tetchy about getting one asap... cant wait.

Seems like the insurance is a better deal for the UK version.

A mear £918.75 with protected no claims and 3 points from elephant.co.uk

compared to the £1200 odd for the WRC

[Celica Chris]

oh tom... your engine bay is a rare beauty...

[daktari]

oh tom... your engine bay is a rare beauty...

←

:D Thanks. By the way. Celica Tom is the car. (My missus insists on naming them)

I`m Martin but most just call me Dak.

[GT4 BOOSTER]

you'll get a much better car for your money if you can find an import fresh in the uk.weather conditions in japan are alot less wet and the rust content wil be zero as opposed to a uk car ,been in rain and crap for years.try to locate an unmodded tottally standard one which wont have been stressed to the limit and tune the baby to your requirements.

[SMW]

have you seen this ?

[GT4 BOOSTER]

genuine wrc spoiled in my opinion with the crap silver interior. i'd go 6k no more.

[SMW]

genuine wrc spoiled in my opinion with the crap silver interior. i'd go 6k no more.

←

Yeah I agree that the silver looks naff - I don't like the steering wheel either. The seller mentioning 160 mph etc. also puts me off. Personally I'd lose the risers as well but I know most of you actually prefer them.

On the upside - it looks like a real WRC (whether thats a good / bad thing is of course debatable) and seems fairly well priced.

[Celica Chris]

im looking at a gt4 thats got a performance exhaust and air filter....

my understanding is that this wont put much extra stress on the engine over the years. Simply allowing to breath more compared to something that is aggressive such as uping boost, hybrid turbo etc...