Corolla Verso Mmt Problems

[janiej]

Since I started this topic, I have had all sorts of problems. I have a high business mileage so took the car back to the dealer for its 10000 mile service and had to have a new automatic clutch fitted. I spoke to the guy and told him I drove it in E mode most of the time. He suggested I should try M mode, so I changed and tried that most of the time. I found it worked better in towns and on country roads - although it still bleeped if it thought it was in too low a gear (the manual said it only did this in E mode). I should have gone for the Manual Box in the first place.

For a few weeks, everything was fine, and then the problems started again with the clonking noise when changing up and down between 1st and 2nd gear - regardless of whether it is in E or M. It still smelt of burning when reversing up a hill. When trying to do a hill start, forward or reverse, it still rolls in the direction of the hill. And, about 50% of the time, it stays in 2nd when I stop at junctions. I took it back at 20,000 miles and they told me it was OK, and they couldn't find anything wrong.

Now, today, I had driven for about an hour and a half along trunk roads at 60-70 mph. I had slipped it into E mode and it was still in that mode as I came off into the town, approached some traffic lights and stopped. It went down to 1st and I pulled away. The next set of lights was red, so I started to slow down. The gears dropped and I was just about to stop when the lights changed, so I put my foot down to pull away. The car just stopped as though the clutch had gone. The red warning light came on, and I wasn't able to change gear at all. I tried E and M, and the only thing I could do was turn off the engine, wait a few minutes and restart. Luckily, there was nothing behind, and I was able to stop safely.

I am taking the car in for another check next week - it is now 18 months old and I am just sick of it. I love the style, the space, the versatility but the gearbox is the worst I have ever had. I have been a Toyota owner for 15 years and I have never been so unhappy with a car.

I am going to another dealership to get the check because we have moved to another area - but I expect I will be fobbed off there as well. Any help on dealing with this would be more than welcome.

[R Tang]

Since I started this topic, I have had all sorts of problems. I have a high business mileage so took the car back to the dealer for its 10000 mile service and had to have a new automatic clutch fitted. I spoke to the guy and told him I drove it in E mode most of the time. He suggested I should try M mode, so I changed and tried that most of the time. I found it worked better in towns and on country roads - although it still bleeped if it thought it was in too low a gear (the manual said it only did this in E mode). I should have gone for the Manual Box in the first place.

For a few weeks, everything was fine, and then the problems started again with the clonking noise when changing up and down between 1st and 2nd gear - regardless of whether it is in E or M. It still smelt of burning when reversing up a hill. When trying to do a hill start, forward or reverse, it still rolls in the direction of the hill. And, about 50% of the time, it stays in 2nd when I stop at junctions. I took it back at 20,000 miles and they told me it was OK, and they couldn't find anything wrong.

Now, today, I had driven for about an hour and a half along trunk roads at 60-70 mph. I had slipped it into E mode and it was still in that mode as I came off into the town, approached some traffic lights and stopped. It went down to 1st and I pulled away. The next set of lights was red, so I started to slow down. The gears dropped and I was just about to stop when the lights changed, so I put my foot down to pull away. The car just stopped as though the clutch had gone. The red warning light came on, and I wasn't able to change gear at all. I tried E and M, and the only thing I could do was turn off the engine, wait a few minutes and restart. Luckily, there was nothing behind, and I was able to stop safely.

I am taking the car in for another check next week - it is now 18 months old and I am just sick of it. I love the style, the space, the versatility but the gearbox is the worst I have ever had. I have been a Toyota owner for 15 years and I have never been so unhappy with a car.

I am going to another dealership to get the check because we have moved to another area - but I expect I will be fobbed off there as well. Any help on dealing with this would be more than welcome.

Dear Janiej:

I haven't heard from you for ages and thought your problems have gone! As the dealer to check and grease pivot paint all 3 fixed fix's. Replace seal pack (T08826-00090) and Computer Trans (T89530-64020). Write to Rachael Grant at the Head Office. Sugeest that all Verso should be recall for safety reasons.. Ring Watch Dog at the BBC. Touch wood, mine has done 3,000miles since the ecu and above modification and I drive in E and is been ok. Good luck. R t

[janiej]

Thanks RT

The garage looked at the car and said that it was a problem with the clutch and they would fix it, but had to wait for parts. This week was one month after the garage told me they were getting the parts, and they arranged to take it in - but couldn't offer me a courtesy car until next week. They didn't tell me not to drive and they know that I need it for my job which involves driving up to 500 miles a week.

Yesterday, I drove from Suffolk to Luton, Milton Keynes and Bedford, which was mainly fast dual carriageway and M1 driving. I parked in an industrial estate on my final call of the afternoon, left the car for half an hour and started up to drive home. As I pulled out of the T junction, luckily turning left, it went into Neutral with lots of loud bleeping. I stopped, switched off the engine, started it, and tried again (that worked last time). Next junction was traffic lights, and it did it again. By then I was really worried so I turned into the next side road and, as it tried to change gear it stopped again.

Thank heavens for the RAC - I am so glad I renewed the roadside assistance. The man from the breakdown company who brought the car home said these gearboxes are dreadful. But, the garage will still not admit that they have heard of the problem. They are going to spend a week fixing it - so there must be something wrong with it but they told me that only bad news gets posted on forums when I mentioned this one.

All I keep thinking about is what if that had happened while I was coming along the M1 half an hour earlier? I will write to Toyota and to Top Gear and Watchdog and everyone else I can think of - but I won't be taking bets on whether or not I get any apology or help from Toyota.

Jane

[Red Yaris 54]

All I keep thinking about is what if that had happened while I was coming along the M1 half an hour earlier? I will write to Toyota and to Top Gear and Watchdog and everyone else I can think of - but I won't be taking bets on whether or not I get any apology or help from Toyota.

Jane

Nothing would have happened on the M1 as your problems only seem to occur at lower speeds.

Give the new Toyota garage a chance to sort it out before you go writing to the media. They have acknowledged that there is a problem with the clutch, which they say they will fix.................your own common sense should tell you that you do not attempt long or high speed journeys with a defective clutch.

You really should not need to be told if you should drive it or not.

If you do decide to write to the media, please ensure that you let them know the complete story, and not just your spin.

Toyota really do care about problems that owners have..................you should know that after 15 years of Toyota ownership.

Sorry to sound so harsh but it had to be said. :)

[R Tang]

All I keep thinking about is what if that had happened while I was coming along the M1 half an hour earlier? I will write to Toyota and to Top Gear and Watchdog and everyone else I can think of - but I won't be taking bets on whether or not I get any apology or help from Toyota.

Jane

Nothing would have happened on the M1 as your problems only seem to occur at lower speeds.

Give the new Toyota garage a chance to sort it out before you go writing to the media. They have acknowledged that there is a problem with the clutch, which they say they will fix.................your own common sense should tell you that you do not attempt long or high speed journeys with a defective clutch.

You really should not need to be told if you should drive it or not.

If you do decide to write to the media, please ensure that you let them know the complete story, and not just your spin.

Toyota really do care about problems that owners have..................you should know that after 15 years of Toyota ownership.

Sorry to sound so harsh but it had to be said. :)

Dear Red Yaris:

Do u work for toyota UK? Ha ha! Unfortunatly when the gear problems happens you can't tell- My car was said to have been fixed but the gear got stuck in the right hand lane of a dual carriage way at 50 MPH! I think made in Turkey may have some thing to do with it. I just got another letter from Toyota UK to say they are doing a recall in passenger air bag switch. So why not a recall for the MMT gear box? Look at the the Whatcar? web site. I don't think Toyota dealers are as good as before. Take my local NW London dealer for example. Took me five calls to book a service. In the end, I went to a new garage in Hampstead. Collection servcie and 25% off- what more could you ask for. Have a nice summer.

RT

[Red Yaris 54]

All I keep thinking about is what if that had happened while I was coming along the M1 half an hour earlier? I will write to Toyota and to Top Gear and Watchdog and everyone else I can think of - but I won't be taking bets on whether or not I get any apology or help from Toyota.

Jane

Nothing would have happened on the M1 as your problems only seem to occur at lower speeds.

Give the new Toyota garage a chance to sort it out before you go writing to the media. They have acknowledged that there is a problem with the clutch, which they say they will fix.................your own common sense should tell you that you do not attempt long or high speed journeys with a defective clutch.

You really should not need to be told if you should drive it or not.

If you do decide to write to the media, please ensure that you let them know the complete story, and not just your spin.

Toyota really do care about problems that owners have..................you should know that after 15 years of Toyota ownership.

Sorry to sound so harsh but it had to be said. :)

Dear Red Yaris:

Do u work for toyota UK? Ha ha! Unfortunatly when the gear problems happens you can't tell- My car was said to have been fixed but the gear got stuck in the right hand lane of a dual carriage way at 50 MPH! I think made in Turkey may have some thing to do with it. I just got another letter from Toyota UK to say they are doing a recall in passenger air bag switch. So why not a recall for the MMT gear box? Look at the the Whatcar? web site. I don't think Toyota dealers are as good as before. Take my local NW London dealer for example. Took me five calls to book a service. In the end, I went to a new garage in Hampstead. Collection servcie and 25% off- what more could you ask for. Have a nice summer.

RT

RT,

I have no connection with Toyota, other than being a very satisfied Toyota owner.

To be honest, Jane should not really have driven her car any great distance after her garage had acknowledged she had a fault. Maybe they should have made this more clear to her. Her description of the driving problems had only occured at low speeds.

It will be interesting to find out what happens with her problem, maybe she will post on here with full details

I will look at the Whatcar? website. Edit: I have looked at the website and note that Toyota features well across the board in the JD Power customer satisfaction survey (Is this what you meant?)

I usually call in to my Toyota dealer to book a service, but it can also be booked online nowdays via the Toyota (GB) website.

My Toyota dealer also offers a pick up/collection service and gives me a discount

Edited August 11, 2006 by Red Yaris 54

[R Tang]

All I keep thinking about is what if that had happened while I was coming along the M1 half an hour earlier? I will write to Toyota and to Top Gear and Watchdog and everyone else I can think of - but I won't be taking bets on whether or not I get any apology or help from Toyota.

Jane

Nothing would have happened on the M1 as your problems only seem to occur at lower speeds.

Give the new Toyota garage a chance to sort it out before you go writing to the media. They have acknowledged that there is a problem with the clutch, which they say they will fix.................your own common sense should tell you that you do not attempt long or high speed journeys with a defective clutch.

You really should not need to be told if you should drive it or not.

If you do decide to write to the media, please ensure that you let them know the complete story, and not just your spin.

Toyota really do care about problems that owners have..................you should know that after 15 years of Toyota ownership.

Sorry to sound so harsh but it had to be said. :)

Dear Red Yaris:

Do u work for toyota UK? Ha ha! Unfortunatly when the gear problems happens you can't tell- My car was said to have been fixed but the gear got stuck in the right hand lane of a dual carriage way at 50 MPH! I think made in Turkey may have some thing to do with it. I just got another letter from Toyota UK to say they are doing a recall in passenger air bag switch. So why not a recall for the MMT gear box? Look at the the Whatcar? web site. I don't think Toyota dealers are as good as before. Take my local NW London dealer for example. Took me five calls to book a service. In the end, I went to a new garage in Hampstead. Collection servcie and 25% off- what more could you ask for. Have a nice summer.

RT

RT,

I have no connection with Toyota, other than being a very satisfied Toyota owner.

To be honest, Jane should not really have driven her car any great distance after her garage had acknowledged she had a fault. Maybe they should have made this more clear to her. Her description of the driving problems had only occured at low speeds.

It will be interesting to find out what happens with her problem, maybe she will post on here with full details

I will look at the Whatcar? website. Edit: I have looked at the website and note that Toyota features well across the board in the JD Power customer satisfaction survey (Is this what you meant?)

I usually call in to my Toyota dealer to book a service, but it can also be booked online nowdays via the Toyota (GB) website.

My Toyota dealer also offers a pick up/collection service and gives me a discount

Red Yaris 54:

Please read the Readers review at Whatcar? website. It has MMT owners with problems on their Corolla. Otherwise type in problems with Corolla MMT at Yahoo and you will see lots os website too.

I don't know where you Dealer is based but I think my local one has gone "too big" and they can't catch up with the demand! I used to drive VWs and it was the same. When we started to drive Honda, Daihatsu, and Hyundai, the daerlers were much smaller and they gave a better service. But as I said, I have found another dealer at Hamsptead and so far they have been great. I ordered a small part the other day and they were going to take it to my house and not post it!. But I hope every reader should shop around instead of sticking to the same rubbish garage.

RT

[Red Yaris 54]

All I keep thinking about is what if that had happened while I was coming along the M1 half an hour earlier? I will write to Toyota and to Top Gear and Watchdog and everyone else I can think of - but I won't be taking bets on whether or not I get any apology or help from Toyota.

Jane

Nothing would have happened on the M1 as your problems only seem to occur at lower speeds.

Give the new Toyota garage a chance to sort it out before you go writing to the media. They have acknowledged that there is a problem with the clutch, which they say they will fix.................your own common sense should tell you that you do not attempt long or high speed journeys with a defective clutch.

You really should not need to be told if you should drive it or not.

If you do decide to write to the media, please ensure that you let them know the complete story, and not just your spin.

Toyota really do care about problems that owners have..................you should know that after 15 years of Toyota ownership.

Sorry to sound so harsh but it had to be said. :)

Dear Red Yaris:

Do u work for toyota UK? Ha ha! Unfortunatly when the gear problems happens you can't tell- My car was said to have been fixed but the gear got stuck in the right hand lane of a dual carriage way at 50 MPH! I think made in Turkey may have some thing to do with it. I just got another letter from Toyota UK to say they are doing a recall in passenger air bag switch. So why not a recall for the MMT gear box? Look at the the Whatcar? web site. I don't think Toyota dealers are as good as before. Take my local NW London dealer for example. Took me five calls to book a service. In the end, I went to a new garage in Hampstead. Collection servcie and 25% off- what more could you ask for. Have a nice summer.

RT

RT,

I have no connection with Toyota, other than being a very satisfied Toyota owner.

To be honest, Jane should not really have driven her car any great distance after her garage had acknowledged she had a fault. Maybe they should have made this more clear to her. Her description of the driving problems had only occured at low speeds.

It will be interesting to find out what happens with her problem, maybe she will post on here with full details

I will look at the Whatcar? website. Edit: I have looked at the website and note that Toyota features well across the board in the JD Power customer satisfaction survey (Is this what you meant?)

I usually call in to my Toyota dealer to book a service, but it can also be booked online nowdays via the Toyota (GB) website.

My Toyota dealer also offers a pick up/collection service and gives me a discount

Red Yaris 54:

Please read the Readers review at Whatcar? website. It has MMT owners with problems on their Corolla. Otherwise type in problems with Corolla MMT at Yahoo and you will see lots os website too.

I don't know where you Dealer is based but I think my local one has gone "too big" and they can't catch up with the demand! I used to drive VWs and it was the same. When we started to drive Honda, Daihatsu, and Hyundai, the daerlers were much smaller and they gave a better service. But as I said, I have found another dealer at Hamsptead and so far they have been great. I ordered a small part the other day and they were going to take it to my house and not post it!. But I hope every reader should shop around instead of sticking to the same rubbish garage.

RT

I have looked at the readers reviews and there appears only to be one dissenting voice about the Corolla MMT in the 5 reviews published....... (That is not really a bad average). I will look later at Yahoo.

You must, however, accept that people are statistically more likely to complain, than praise.

[PaJa]

did somebody fix the problem with halting mmt gearbox at flashing "N" position during the drive? I've the same troubles, but my car is a corolla estate 1.4 d4d. currently it is in garage for fix. will see what they find.

[janiej]

Here is the update as promised.

First of all, I can't fault the Toyota Breakdown Cover. They arranged to get me home on the day of the breakdown, got the car to the garage, provided me with a hire car until they could sort out a courtesy car. I had told them it could not be a Yaris as I needed something bigger so they extended the hire period until a Corolla was available. I loved that car so much, I was tempted to ask for a part exchange!

The Verso was at the garage for a month, although the repair did not start until it had been there for a week as they had other work booked in. They showed me the list of what had been replaced - it looked as though the entire clutch unit had been rebuilt and a new ECU put in.

At first, it was handling beautifully, with no clonking but quite a strong smell of grease which I put down to the fact that they had packed grease into it. I have now been driving it for about 10 days, and the clonking between first and second is coming back. It now changes into third when I go down hill, regardless of how much pressure I apply to the brakes. Consequently, it revs like mad at the bottom of the hill when I start to accelerate again. I have taken to watching the display to see what is going on otherwise it sounds like I am trying to take off. On the other hand, it tries to get up hills in fifth gear and I have to keep slipping into manual to get it to change gear. I am thinking of moving to the Fens so there are no hills.

Last week I was in a queue of very slow moving traffic for nearly two hours and there was a strange hot rubber smell which I thought was coming from the car. So, instead of crawling along, in first gear, with my foot covering the brake, I decided instead to play safe and stop, go into neutral, apply the handbrake and wait until there was a decent gap ahead before moving on again. The bloke behind was getting a bit annoyed, but the smell stopped. Coincidence? I wasn't sure, maybe I was just paranoid. It could have been coming from one of the cars in front.

I am still not convinced, but I am giving it a month to settle in and see what happens.

[Red Yaris 54]

It now changes into third when I go down hill, regardless of how much pressure I apply to the brakes. Consequently, it revs like mad at the bottom of the hill when I start to accelerate again.

Janie

The MMT box will by design, change down as you apply the brakes when going downhill.

That is what the gearbox is for as it takes some of the load off the braking system. It is not good practice to brake hard all the way down hills................let the gearbox do its work.

It will only"Rev like mad" at the bottom if you press the accelerator..........try feathering off the accelerator as you get to the bottom of the hill.

The MMT box will only change down whilst climbing hills if it senses the need to change down.........your engine should be capable of tackling MOST hills in top gear without labouring.

Please do not move to the Fens................you would not like the roads ;) :D

[Ray99]

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

[Red Yaris 54]

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

At Last..............someone talking some sense about the MMT.

You have summed up what I have been trying to tell the users of this forum (particularly JanieJ)for months.

Basically there is nothing wrong with MMT........It really does require an adjustment to your driving technique.

As you will see from my Avatar and Signature I have now exchanged my MMT Yaris for a manual New Yaris, NOT because of any problems with the MMT system, but because Toyota no longer sell the Yaris with MMT and a 1.0 litre engine.

Good luck to all the Verso MMT owners................the system really does work

[Ray99]

Thanks Red. I think that the Yaris MMT seems to be far less trouble than the Corolla MMT. I see very few Yaris MMT's with problems, but I've had several Corolla MMT's with more than their fair share of woes. The MMT seems to suit the smaller engine/smaller car combination better than the larger engine/larger car combination. I don't think that all the reported faults exist only in the minds of the owners.

Ray

[johnL]

Hi to anyone who thinks they have experienced Mmt problems and to anyone who thinks it's only a minor problem. Please read this saga of disasters and consider whether some concerted action needs to happen.

Stay with it as things get progressively worse.

Briefly:

Bought VersoT Spirit in January 2005. Within days wife had problem of the flashing "N". Get the car back to us and we will look at it," said our caring Toyota garage. Luckily after many attempts it was working again.

Some days later I was in the middle of a "U" turn when the flashing started. Again after holding up other traffic for some time it started to work again. I decided to take the car back to Toyota and after exhaustive tests the car was perfect and there were no problems. As I was travelling to France the next day this was a relief. Getting in the car to drive off the garage forecourt you can guess what happened. Yes, the N started flashing and there was no way either I or the mechanics could rectify the problem. I was loaned a similar car to take to France.

Very soon after collecting the "repaired and now perfect" car I set off for France again. You're ahead of me now, yes, the dreaded flashing "N" made it's debut in France, miles from where I was staying. Got help from friends but had to use Toyota RAC membership to get the car taken to Toyota in Angouleme and get a hire car. (RAC service very good). My car stayed at this garage for 10 days. As my wife could not drive the hire car I had to drive to an airport for a brief trip home, she was left in an isolated house with no transport.

On our return further flashing "N" problems meant the car went back yet again. 10 days driving a small loan car was totally unsuited to our lifestyle - grandchildren, dogs etc.

On July 12th the "N" problem occurred at 5pm half way round a very busy roundabout. A nightmare or what? Can't get it going again.

For some reason I was persuaded to use my AA membership to deliver the car back to Toyota who agreed to allow me to hire a car for my trip to France the NEXT day. A 6am start enabled us to get a car from an airport car service. Just a saloon so half the stuff we wanted to take with us had to stay behind.

I received a call in France to say that my car was ready and I was talked into driving alone across half of France to collect the "repaired and now perfect" car. As I was not due back to England until the 31st August this action saved Toyota about £2,500 in car hire charges. I also had to pay up front for all costs including ferry, toll charges and petrol, and on my return the car hire charges: a total of over £1,000. Again my wife was left isolated. I collected my "repaired and now perfect" car on 24th July and presented my itemised invoice for my expenses. Toyota said that the invoice would be sent to Toyota Head Office for approval but in the meantime could I pay some £400 for the service they had carried out, with my agreement, whilst they had had the car. No, I am not making this up. I am a remakably patient man but now I am fed up and leave a letter for the Managing Director of the garage detailing my gripes. Have I received a reply or acknowledgement? No prizes for getting this one right.

Three days later 27th July) I filled the car with £52 of petrol, had 2 new tyres fitted (prior to my return to France the next day) and drove away from the tyre centre. When I say drove away, I mean the car moved approximately 10 metres before, guess what, yes say hello again to the flashing "N". Cannot get it going again. Although Toyota tried to pressure me into using my membership of the AA to get the car back to them (saves them money) I insisted that they make the collection arrangements. Back at the garage I was given a RAV4 to take back to France until 31st August. Nice car the RAV4 but it does not have 7 seats which I need for family and friends coming to stay. Any trips involving more than 5 people is not possible.

On the very day of the last breakdown I received a letter from a Mr Cole, The Director of Sales and After Sales Operations at Toyota (GB) PLC, who hoped that driving my Toyota Verso had been an enjoyable expereience and further claiming that customer safety was of "paramount importance. With this in mind he advised an impending safety recall in respect of another matter.

From France I sent him full details of my experiences by Recorded Delivery letter dated the 10 August with a copy to the garage, also by Recorded Delivery. This letter also pointed out that my advice was that Toyota had been given ample opportunity to rectify the problem but having failed to do so I had some rights and as I could longer rely on their assurances that the car is now "repaired and perfect" wanted then to take the car back for a refund. My first contact with Toyota after these letters was as a result of me telephoning the garage to find out what was happening. I was told that my car had been repaired and would be ready for me when I returned and there was also a chance that my cheque would be ready. You couldn't make it up!

The day after my return I was telephoned and asked when I was going to return the loan car as they had somebody interested and I should also collect my own car. I attempted to point out that the matter had not been resolved and Toyota at this time had not shown any interest in the safety issues surrounding the Mmt Problem. This week I was telephoned by a "Customer Relations Executive" from the garage. He said that there was no chance at all that Toyota would take the car back.

As we know the "N" problem can occur at any time and any place. At medium to high speed along a main road, or whilst stationary or at low speeds. I asked the question as to what would happen if I turned to cross a very busy dual carriageway with my wife and four grandchildren in the back and the car only travelled 10 metres and experienced the "N" problem? He replied that in respect of the Mmt gearbox there have been no accidents of which he is aware. I wonder how long we will have to wait on that score. I pointed out that I had not received any acknowledgement to my Recorded Delivery letters which I thought was both bad business ethics and bad manners. He expressed utter amazement at this. He told me there was nothing wrong with the car and if I didn't return "our property" forthwith he will deliver my car to me and take theirs back. Today I received a letter post marked 05.09.06 from a "Customer Support Co-ordinator" at Toyota (GB) thanking me for my letter. Her letter was dated the 22 August 2006 - I wonder where it has been for the missing 2 weeks.

The "Customer Support Co-ordinator has said that she is going to follow up to ensure all my issues have been addressed. You don't know how relieved I am.

Heard nothing for 2 days now.

What say you Red Yaris - am I being too picky?

[Red Yaris 54]

Briefly:

Bought VersoT Spirit in January 2005.

The "Customer Support Co-ordinator has said that she is going to follow up to ensure all my issues have been addressed. You don't know how relieved I am.

Heard nothing for 2 days now.

What say you Red Yaris - am I being too picky?

Welcome to TOC John

Your explaination was far from brief and rather emotive...........I hope that your recorded letters were more factual and to the point.

You say that you bought the Verso in January 2005 and have just replaced two tyres...............how many miles have you done?

It would be very unlikely that you could reject the vehicle now after such time and potentially high mileage. Why did you not reject it earlier?

I think that you may have got to the root of your vehicles issues at last.....................lets hope that the "Customer Support Co-ordinator" can sort out your problems to your complete satisfaction. (It may however take a few more days.................but you must be used to waiting by now)

Good luck to you

[Ray99]

John, so sorry to hear of your troubles. I wish there was an easy fix we (the technicians) could apply and solve the "N" problem. I admire your patience, do you think that you may have mistyped 2005, when you meant 2006 for the age of your car?

Red Yaris I think you may have missed the irony in John's final few sentences.

[castorsei]

My Corolla D-4D MMT has been 100% reliable and economical 52.9mpg @ average 41mph according to the computer.

I drive as you describe we should and have not experienced any N problems over 27K miles in 1 year. However, at motorway crawling speeds the car in E mode is not smooth between 1st & 2nd and vice versa however hard I try.

I was getting so fatigued after 10 hr day at work and a 2 hr journey home that I have solved the problem. I've bought a proper automatic!

It's a shame as the Corolla is generally a good car. I took a big hit on the p/x, as I couldn't sell it privately and according to the the garage and friends in the motor trade no one wants MMTs!!!

Good luck everyone when you try to dispose of your MMt'd Toyota.

[SMW]

The text below was intended to be added to this topic but the new user who wrote it sent it to the moderating team by mistake rather than posting the reply.

The author of this text is

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showuser=31639

The text of the response is as follows -

Cheers

Steve

I bought my Verso 2 years ago and after 8 months , while reversing onto a busy street in Spain (where drivers are not the most considerate!) found myself stuck in neutral and unable to move. The car was told to the delaers, where it remained for 2 weeks, with no work being done, while I had to hire a car at my own expense. Eventually I got the car back and was told I would have to bring it back again when Madrid main toyota came up with a solution. The remedy (for the time being was, to take the key from the transmitter and place it into the slot on the panel to unclock the gears. The car went back in and had a new gearbox fitted. However, the problem has now started again and is 10 times worse than before. the car now goes into neutral, in heavy traffic,at roundabouts and at junctions and happened last week 3 times on a 8 km journey. I ended dumping the car at the garage and telling them to deal with it. Tomorrow I have to collect it as it has supposedly been "fixed" but I no longer want to drive it and have no confidence left at all. while this problem has so far only happened in reverse or 1st gear (which is dangerous enough!) I am terrified that it will happen when I am driving at speed. Please help!!

[johnL]

John, so sorry to hear of your troubles. I wish there was an easy fix we (the technicians) could apply and solve the "N" problem. I admire your patience, do you think that you may have mistyped 2005, when you meant 2006 for the age of your car?

Red Yaris I think you may have missed the irony in John's final few sentences.

Ray - a result!

Have got my £1,000+ expenses refunded in total. Following certain threats the garage has agreed to take my Verso back (42,000 miles on the clock and knocked about) and have given what I feel is a very good price for it. (In my opinion it's worth nothing). Have opted for a manual, diesel Verso with extras thrown in as the basic car is exactly what I need. What have I done?

All this without the help of the "Customer Support Co-Ordinator." Why any company employs such characters I do not know. They just succeed in annoying you further whilst achieving nothing. At least you appreciated the irony!

As for Red Yaris, please get a life and stop spending all your time trying to write amusing and informative messages at other peoples expence. You obviously know very little about anything. You're not clever and you're not funny, you're just a pain in the Yaris.

For those interested, try ordering a Verso with the Mmt gearbox and I think you will find that Toyota will be unable to give you a delivery date. I wonder why that is.

[Red Yaris 54]

Following certain threats the garage has agreed to take my Verso back (42,000 miles on the clock and knocked about) and have given what I feel is a very good price for it. (In my opinion it's worth nothing). Have opted for a manual, diesel Verso with extras thrown in as the basic car is exactly what I need. What have I done?

As for Red Yaris, please get a life and stop spending all your time trying to write amusing and informative messages at other peoples expence. You obviously know very little about anything. You're not clever and you're not funny, you're just a pain in the Yaris.

John L,

At last we have the facts........you admit that your Verso has 42000 miles on the clock and has been "knocked about"

The majority of Toyota owners on these forums treat their vehicles with pride and care and would not "knock them about"

Your "certain threats" to the garage show you up for what you really are.........an uncaring, irresponsible owner. However, I am glad that you considered that you got a very good price for your Verso. Frankly I am rather surprised that you even considered another Toyota after your previous experiences.

I really think that you need to take a "Chill Pill" I can assure you that I have an "excellent" life...............maybe you need to take a look at your attitude?

My previous postings on this subject were not made at the expense of others, but merely to offer the benefit of my (Pleasant) experiences with the MMT Yaris and offer others my viewpoint on the topic.

I regret that you were unable to accept my postings in the spirit that they were intended and feel that it is not very clever or funny of you to indulge in personal insults that have no place on these forums. (Please read the terms and conditions that you signed up to)

I would request that you remove the personal insults from your posting as there is no place within these forums for that type of anti- social behavior. :)

[PaJa]

Hi guys,

I had a problem with flashing "N" as all of you. My garage solved the problem as a warranty repair. There is Toyota service bulletin CP-5013 regarding this problem and applicable to ZNR11, NDE120 cars. The DTC service code is P0810 - Loss of drive/Unable to select gears.

The recommended procedure is to replace the MMT ECU - production date greater that Oct13, 2004 resp. Nov 10, 2004 for DTE120 car and the replacement of whole clutch Assy. The new model of ECU logic should to suit better to high load conditions.

[Hilary McCorry]

Hi. I'm a Producer with the BBC so may be in a position to kick some 'a***s' at Toyota.

I've had my Corolla Verso MMT since May 2004 when it was first launched. I have been pleased with the car until last summer I suddenly got the "N" problem as you all describe. Audiable noise, flashing red light on the dash board and no power. I was going down a main road at the time and managed to coast into the side of the road. Oh the joys of mobiles. What did we do before we had them? Called the RAC and when he arrived the problem seemed to have righted itself. The RAC guy followed me home and it was ok then and until last week. I left home on my way to work and within a hundred yards of the house the same thing happened. It dropped from 5th gear into neutral. Ok I thought, I know how to fix this. Just leave it for a few minutes but the same thing kept happening every few yards. Eventually I abandoned the car and took a taxi and train to work. The RAC towed it to my local dealership the next day. Apparently there were various codes come up on their diagnostic system which they had to take advice about. They didn't know what the problem was supposedly. Meanwhile a bit of research from me and a call to customer relations at Toyota got things moving. It did help that I am a journalist and producer for the BBC. I was given a car to keep me on the road and 5 days later the car was returned. The clutch had been changed and the ECU. Picked it up last night. Got home and then on the way to work this morning the problem happened again but with a slightly different twist. This time everytime I got to a junction there was a clunk as the gears moved down to 1st and then when I tried to move away it stayed in 1st but just reved and reved. Turning the engine off and re-starting it got it going again. Rather embarassing sitting at a busy junction with 20 cars behind you and having to wait several minutes to get going again. I abandoned the car and got the train. BUT all guns blazing this time I got into work and set into action. Not the fault of the dealership because they have been brilliant and done what Toyota suggested.

Using my contacts in the BBC I got in touch with the producer of Top Gear and Watch Dog and they are very interested in getting on the case. If anyone would like to e-mail me with a brief resume of their problems I will pass them on and let's see if we can get Toyota to acknowledge that there is a design fault on this MMT transmission. Can you put the subject as Verso MMT so I can distinguish them from the normal work stuff. I've already lost my car for a day to have the air bag problem rectified. I've owned 3 Toyotas and got rid of my last one to buy a new model as I imagined that I would have a number of years of reliable motering.

H

[Red Yaris 54]

Any progress yet Hilary?

[Misi]

Hi!

I am from Hungary and I also have a Corolla Verso with MMT transmission system.

Unfortunately, with problems....

First time (May 2006, 20000 km) when I had the "N" problem, my Toyota dealer replaced the whole MMT system (including actuator, clutch, etc.). They said: "Now, everything's all right, the problem will never come back again". But they were wrong.

The problem appeared again (last month, 43000 km), but nothing was replaced then. The transmission system was dismantled and reassembled using a special type of grease (specifically developed for this kind of problem). Since then I have not experienced the problem again, nevertheless I sent a letter to Toyota Motor Hungary Ltd. emphasizing that I no longer trust the MMT system as it is unsafe and urging for a solution (e.g. replacement of the transmission system for a manual one, etc.). No answer so far...

As a member of Toyota Club Hungary I met a few other owners with the same problem but I am the only one who has experienced it repeatedly (I am not proud of that...).

In my opinion it's time to recall all Toyota cars with MMT transmission system...