Corolla Verso Mmt Problems

[ij.edge]

I agree , everyone suffering with the MMT problem should take collective action. Thanks for providing the address.

AG

[Dear all:

Further to my postings, I recieved a letter from Vechicle and Operator servcies Agency (VOSA). They have asked Toyota GB to investigate the MMt gear box problem and to see whether "a feature of design or construction liable to cause significant risk if personal injury or death". So please if you could write to the following regarding your problems, that would be great!

Mr Martin Ryder

Automotive Engineer

Vehicle Safety Branch

VOSA

Vehicle Safety Branch

Berkelery House

Croydon Street

Bristol BS5 0DA

www.vosa.gov.uk

I bought my Toyota Verso MMT in Dec 2006, even though I was aware of the problem after going through this forum. Was devastated when it surfaced in March. Although its been fixed, there is always nagging feeling it would happen again. So I would advise not to go for the MMT model.

Hello to all you MMT verso owners,

I am new to this forum but I am looking at buying a new car for my increasing family ( I have a 15 month old and am expecting a further arrival in late July). Having looked at various car magazines, the Which recommendations and other literature I narrowed down my list of possible choices to a Touran, Honda FRV or Verso.

Having driven all three of these but unfortunately not the MMT version of the verso (just the manual) I was impressed with the toyota verso and it definitely ticks most boxes but I definitely need an automatic. My question to you all is do you believe that the new Verso TR or spirit models have the same problems or should I steer clear of the toyota mmt altogether.

Also I was wondering is it possible for a new verso to be ordered as a full automatic or do they only make a MMT model.

[ij.edge]

I too am suffering with the Verso MMT problem.

My car is nearly 3 years old and the problem manifested itself about a year ago.

The Multi Mode Transmission has let me down on several occasions and has put itself into neutral, thus loosing all drive capability. The most dangerous occasion was when I was driving along a busy road in Derbyshire. I was proceeding along the road when the car slipped into neutral. I was forced to stop the car, turn off the engine for about a minute a re-start. Only then was I able to engage drive.

This has happened several times since and on one occasion I had to re-start the engine three times before I was able to engage drive.

This could be a most dangerous situation for somebody driving over a level crossing or along a motorway.

I once held up traffic for a while on a narrow road as I went through the procedure of "re-booting" my car.

I complained to Toyota and work was carried out at the Inchcape (Nottingham) site to correct the problem. I was told that there were 3 other cars in with the same problem as mine.

After a few days I got may car back and everything appeared OK for a week or so. Then I noticed another problem. This time the car indicated that It was in first gear but when I came to drive away, the car stayed put an simply reved.

I reported this problem to Inchcape and they did some intial tests. They said there was a lot wrong with may car. I booked my car in to Inchcape for repairs and they said they couldn't locate the problem (18/6/07) but a mechanic said he thought he knew what was wrong. They said they needed to order in parts and would contact me when the parts arrived.

To date I have received no indication that the parts have arrived.

This problem has obviously tarnished the good name of Toyota but I think they should be made to carry out garanteed corrective work or replace the car with a manual gearbox version.

[R Tang]

Dear ij.edge:

Sorry to hear re: problem. I don't think you should be driving the car if they haven't fixed it properly. Ask your dealer to provide you with a hire car. I think you have the right to one as this is the second time it has been in the garage. Failing that, ring Toyota GB and ask them to get you a car.

As for the MMt. Toyota GB has issued some papers(See pervious postings) for their dealers so make sure your dealer has one and changed every thing as suggested. Keep a copy of the work. Finally, like most of us, write to VOSA.

Good luck.

[JayLondon]

Hi everyone,

Just thought you might want to see this post about my new 2008 Verso SR:

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...mp;#entry659434

[versowner]

Have been experiencing the "Flashing N" problem for about a year now.... thought it was just something up with my vehicle until I decided to do a search on google and found this forum... I was amazed to discover that so many others are experiencing exactly the same problem and somewhat dismayed at the lack of any solution from Toyota - especially as this topic was started in March 2005. I've written to VOSA as requested in this forum as I almost had a collision last week due to the "Flashing N" problem - my wife is too nervous to drive the car now. We've had 6 occurences in the last week alone. The car was in at the dealership today but for the second time they have not been able to find a fault. I've since been driving the car in 'M' mode - but I don't know if that makes any difference. It's a real shame as apart from this I love everything else about the car.

[Paul E]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

[bjw]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :!Removed!:

[Red Yaris 54]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :shutit:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

[bjw]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :!Removed!:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

Do you have any facts to support this : :D

[Red Yaris 54]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :shutit:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

Do you have any facts to support this : :D

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time ;)

[bjw]

Hello Red Yaris 54

At last we do finally agree on something

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Yes you are quite right but sweeping this under the carpet until the VOSA comes to a decision will suit Toyota GB more than the motorists who are stuck with there cars.

I don't think any comments made on this web site would influence the VOSA in anyway and if it increases the pressure on Toyota to sort it out once and for all good!. and of course your opinion is as valid as anybody else ! but the good thing about living in the UK we live in a democracy and can express one

It also may make future customers aware of the problems that some people have encountered with the MMT gearbox on the Verso and allow them to make an informed choice it certainly made me aware and I decided not to buy a MMT and went for a manual gearbox

[bjw]

It may be of interest to some of you that a Toyota PR man had made some posts on the Rav forum ! I posted the link on there of this thread and and invited the Toyota representative to read and reply I received an email from him and have posted it below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message Forwarded From Toyota PR

Hi,

I followed your link in the RAV4 thread and talked with the technical guys here. I can't really add much - VOSA are aware and there is a meeting soon to discuss the matter, all of which is already in the thread.

It would be wrong to paint the VOSA meeting as some sort of summit from which will be handed down a degree - from either side - but it will provide a next stage so best to wait until that has happened I think.

Cheers,

Scott

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know it does not add anymore to the thread but at least you know there will be a meeting soon and Toyota know it is being discussed in these forums

I was pleased Toyota PR replied and wish they would take a more active part in the forums

[Red Yaris 54]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :shutit:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

Do you have any facts to support this : :D

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time ;)

Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR

Maybe you now believe me.

[bjw]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :!Removed!:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

Do you have any facts to support this : :D

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time ;)

Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR

Maybe you now believe me.

As you wish to reopen this discussion again I believe you related this problem in an earlier post as I quote "down to a persons driving technique".

I would also point out that what the Toyota PR person responded in his email to me is what I would have expected any decent PR employee to say in other words nothing or perhaps you are unable to see that and like you I like to deal in FACTS and as at the moment I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that this problem will be sorted out to the satisfaction of the owners of these vehicles .

I am not suggesting Toyota have not attempted to sort out this issue they have .

It was interesting viewing the watchdog programme on television this week regarding the Renault faulty bonnet release and the faulty handbrake on the vauxhall and the way the VOSA have investigated it ! watchdog did not seem very impressed with the way they carried out there investigations.

I also cannot see anything in the email from Toyota PR which relates to anything you have said in past !the main content in the email was that there is a meeting soon and that it would be wrong to think this VOSA meeting is some sort of summit

On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise ;)

[Red Yaris 54]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :shutit:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

Do you have any facts to support this : :D

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time ;)

Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR

Maybe you now believe me.

As you wish to reopen this discussion again I believe you related this problem in an earlier post as I quote "down to a persons driving technique".

I would also point out that what the Toyota PR person responded in his email to me is what I would have expected any decent PR employee to say in other words nothing or perhaps you are unable to see that and like you I like to deal in FACTS and as at the moment I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that this problem will be sorted out to the satisfaction of the owners of these vehicles .

I am not suggesting Toyota have not attempted to sort out this issue they have .

It was interesting viewing the watchdog programme on television this week regarding the Renault faulty bonnet release and the faulty handbrake on the vauxhall and the way the VOSA have investigated it ! watchdog did not seem very impressed with the way they carried out there investigations.

I also cannot see anything in the email from Toyota PR which relates to anything you have said in past !the main content in the email was that there is a meeting soon and that it would be wrong to think this VOSA meeting is some sort of summit

On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise ;)

QUOTE: (Scott, Toyota PR)............"so best to wait until that has happened I think."

QUOTE: "On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise"..........That is an Interesting theory that you have ruled out there ;) .................I would not wish to tread on Scotts toes ;)

I repeat............any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time :)

[Hilary McCorry]

I was the proud owner of a Corolla Verso MMT from when it was first launched. I say proud as I loved the car. I too had the dreaded N problem during the first year and then nothing for a while. But during it's second year it occurred several times and despite having all the modifications carried out it still continued. When it was coming up to the end of the 3 year warranty, I like many others cut our losses and got rid of it. I too have written to VOSA as I don't feel they should still be selling this car. When I decided to sell it. I asked my local Toyota Dealership if they had sorted out the MMT problems on the new models as if they had I would have bought another one. They came back that the gearbox was still the original but they were not aware of any problems. The fact that my car had been in the garage numerous times didn't register. When I questioned it they said mine was the only one but they did admit that they hadn't sold many MMT models.

My query is, where do all of us stand that just gave up and sold our cars at a loss so as to have safe driving? If VOSA can do anything, and I hope they do, and the cars are recalled, do we still have any redress?

[bjw]

And in reply to the locked post from RedYaris54 asking whether anyone had any FACTS and inviting them to ask Toyota what % of vehicles had failed, when my sons MMT yaris needed its second new gearbox computer (this one outside warranty, and cooked the clutch, so a very large bill), I did write to Toyota asking for exactly that info. A Mr George Radanov, customer relations executive, replied and said ""we cannot comment on how many vehicles have had the modified parts and whether there has been any recurrence of the problem with them. This is internal information only".

So that gives us all a nice warm feeling, doesn't it?

He did also, however, in response to another one of my direct questions, say "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

So keep watching guys....

Paul

So there we have it ! straight from a Toyota customer relations executives mouth they will not say :!Removed!:

The Executive did say this: "should we in the future decide to offer a full recall on the ECU you will be offered a full refund for the work carried out to your vehicle".

That does not sound like a manufacturer that is not interested in their customers.

Toyota appear to be well aware of the concerns that owners have, and should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, I would expect them to take some action.

Do you have any facts to support this : :D

The FACTS, my friend, speak for themselves:

Various Verso owners have contacted VOSA with their concerns (FACT)

VOSA are investigating (FACT)

Should the FACTS be proven by VOSA in the future, VOSA will call on the manufacturer to take action (FACT).

In my OPINION, any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time ;)

Exactly what I posted on September 1st 2007.......................Now confirmed by Toyota PR

Maybe you now believe me.

As you wish to reopen this discussion again I believe you related this problem in an earlier post as I quote "down to a persons driving technique".

I would also point out that what the Toyota PR person responded in his email to me is what I would have expected any decent PR employee to say in other words nothing or perhaps you are unable to see that and like you I like to deal in FACTS and as at the moment I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that this problem will be sorted out to the satisfaction of the owners of these vehicles .

I am not suggesting Toyota have not attempted to sort out this issue they have .

It was interesting viewing the watchdog programme on television this week regarding the Renault faulty bonnet release and the faulty handbrake on the vauxhall and the way the VOSA have investigated it ! watchdog did not seem very impressed with the way they carried out there investigations.

I also cannot see anything in the email from Toyota PR which relates to anything you have said in past !the main content in the email was that there is a meeting soon and that it would be wrong to think this VOSA meeting is some sort of summit

On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise ;)

QUOTE: (Scott, Toyota PR)............"so best to wait until that has happened I think."

QUOTE: "On a final point it does rule out my theory that you are a Toyota pr representative in disguise"..........That is an Interesting theory that you have ruled out there ;) .................I would not wish to tread on Scotts toes ;)

I repeat............any further discussion until the FACTS are published by VOSA, is a waste of my and your time :)

I do not know why Red yaris 54 does not want any discussion on the MMT saga !this is a a Toyota forum for Toyota owners to express there views and ask for help with problems they may have .

Why do you store so much faith that the VOSA will handle this problem any better than they did for Renault drivers who bonnets flew up when driving or the Vauxhall drivers when there cars would slip off the handbrake I believe according to watchdog they could find no fault yet when examined by an independent engineer paid for by watchdog the faults were identified and the VOSA are looking into it again I believe this to be true did anyone else see the program to confirm this is correct

You say it is pointless to discuss this until the VOSA have carried out there investigation ! I believe it was you who said until we had the figures from Toyota as to how many vehicles are affected we should not discuss it ,when Toyota refused to give these figures it was wait until the VOSA have investigated it .

I am now looking into the future and I suggest this is how this thread will go

Lets wait until Toyota have had a chance to evaluate the findings of the VOSA

lets wait until there technical department have looked at the best way to put a solution in place

some of the cars effected are now old and many have been sold by there original owners and its now not really economically viable to take any action

This thread was started in march 2005 that's over 2 years ago I admit Toyota have tried to sort out this problem and I am not suggesting any other manufacturer would have behaved any differently in fact probably not as well but it does not alter the fact many people have spent a considerable amount of money on these cars.

Many like Hilary have taken a big loss on the car when sold just to get shut of there problem

regards

[R Tang]

Dear All:

Firstly, I dont agree with red yaris that the discussion should not carry on until VOSA has done their investigations. You have been lucky because you are not the one suffering from this MMt problems! Obviously, this problem is not a "one-off" and affected a lot of Verso Mmt owners, so I do think as consumers we do have right to get Toyota to sort some thing out.

Second, having spoken to Twinspark Toyota who fixed my car, they have told me that in fact many Verso still have this problem because other dealers have not carried out the repairs properly! They had about 5 Versos, including mine, in which other dealers did nt change every thing!

Finally, I am off to the Tokyo Motor show in 27th Oct. I will bring a letter to the Priesident of Toyota re: MMt problems, to show how serious we are!!!

[Mister MMT]

Hello MMT drivers and debaters,

I’ve been reading all the messages on problems with the MMT gear box and found it extremely interesting. This message is my first one here, and I apologise for its length, if that seems a bit unusual.

I own since one year a CV MMT built in the fall of 2004. It totals 23.000 miles, 12.500 of them by me. Like several among you, I’m a satisfied MMT driver. My car hasn’t had a single problem so far! I bought my CV in exchange for a Corsa 1.2 Easytronic. The latter had a simpler robotized manual gear box. I had been using it daily for five years without any problem. I’ve been driving other automatic gearbox cars like a Rover Vitesse (sold after 100.000 miles), and a Picnic (which we still own: 120.000 miles).

I had tried the CV MMT three times before buying it. It took me a couple of weeks to adapt my driving style to it, and after that, I became very pleased with it. The Toyota dealer I bought it from offered me a 2 years Toyota extension, which just started running. For the moment, I feel safe.

I agree with all those saying this is not a conventional automatic gearbox, and that the user best adapts his style according to the recommendations provided by some of you.

I am a rather active member of the French TCVII Forum. Over the last 2 ½ years, we had about five cases of MMT failures, 4 of them were concerned with the “N” Symptoms. All of them were repaired under guarantee, albeit not always correctly from the first time. No relapses have been reported. All these owners are satisfied MMT drivers and continued to be afterwards.

My reading made me aware of the fact that in the UK, the MMT models are much more popular then in other countries. To me, it seems normal that there are more reports here on failures. We have many more reports on failures with diesel injectors, simply because in France, 75% of the TCVII are sold with this type of engine, and none of these is MMT equipped. I must say I do not consider the number of failures reported here over a 2 ½ years period to be a landslide. In the absence of more information, they could as well indicate a nice robustness, since no car part is fail safe.

Reading the messages, however, instructed me about several points that are very useful to know.

1. Several times, repeated failures occurred on the same car, even when the complete system got repaired. In some cases, the workshop apparently did not exchange all the parts they should have, and this may have caused some of the relapses. It can therefore be strongly recommended that customers enquire for the full details of the repair, which should be effectuated according to the procedure described in Service bulletin CP5013 from May 2005. I can understand the despair and dismay of the owners who had expected better.

2. In some cases, failure occurs in circumstances which were considered dangerous by the drivers. An investigation is being conducted by the VOSA. This came as a big surprise to me, and seems worrying indeed. In my opinion, if officially recognized as authentic, one such case is one too much. I hope this investigation will shed light on the question.

3. One forum member tried obtaining from Toyota reliable figures on the percentage of MMT cars which have suffered from failures. Unfortunately, he was turned down. I sincerely regret this, since in this way, Toyota contributes to the persistence of all kinds of hypotheses, which cannot be verified. I’ll give an example below. Unfortunately for us consumers, this kind of information is never provided by any of the car manufacturers, unless forced by law. I hope they realise how this policy can tarn a reputation in a highly competitive marketplace. Forums like this attract a wide readership, and many people tend to overreact a bit upon reading even a few reports of people understandably devastated by their bad experience.

4. A somewhat more reliable source for enquiring about customer satisfaction and car reliability then a Forum are the yearly JD Power reports or the like, and the statistics of car assistance associations (I do not know their name in the UK). Globally, on the Continent, the TCVII, Corolla and Yaris models seem to give satisfaction to their owners and rank among the most reliable cars on the market. Unfortunately, for the MMT models, no separate statistics are known, although I may have missed some.

This brings me to my final point, and the reason I wish to contribute to your ongoing debate.

Another member, known as reliable and serious, has reported a statement of a technician of his workshop, according to which the CV MMT cars built until December 2005 were all having a construction failure known to Toyota, and that sooner or later, they would all go down the road to failure. He also stated that after December 2005, Toyota fixed the problem, and that the failure rate since then had dropped drastically. The fix consists of the addition of a metal or rubber joint somewhere in the system. (Sorry for not being more precise, I am not a car technician). In the absence of this modification, it was said that oil could spill on the clutch disk when the gearbox was put under strong torque demand, like during climbing, stop and go traffic, or at roundabouts. Toyota was said to have decided not to make a recall, but instead, to repair the cars under guarantee, as they come in for repair.

I wish to make it clear here that this is an example of a non-verified statement which anybody can read on our Forum. I cannot take any warranty or liability for its content. After giving it some thought, I decided it would be worthwhile to bring this matter up here, in view of the larger number of MMT cars in the UK and your experience with this matter.

Messages of the kind reported on here raise the following questions:

1. Do CV MMT cars built before December 2005 have a “vice caché”, or hidden failure, known to the manufacturer? Was it considered by them as not needing a recall, since it is not representing a danger for car safety, and since it is always repaired under guarantee?

2. What if indeed in certain circumstances, a failure of this nature involves exposing the car’s occupants to dangerous situations? If it could be proven that Toyota neglected to take a more precautious attitude, like they did with the passenger airbag, are they not running the risk of a large number of complaints before justice?

3. What will happen to owners who have a failure after the end of the guarantee period, and even encounter more failures? I noticed already at least one such case in your forum, but I did not find out whether Toyota accepted to pay for part or all of the expenses. These may amount to ¼ of the remaining value of the car! We will see an increasing number of owners facing this problem. In case the MMT had a vice cache, will Toyota give these customers free repair? Until which mileage?

4. What will be the impact on reselling an MMT car when its reputation continues to go down?

I think these questions merit our attention and need clarification by finding the real facts. I recently wrote a letter to Toyota in my country formulating these questions, but individual action has little chance of success. The best way would be to engage a discussion with Toyota Europe officials. Although very often, this is utopia, there is an interesting precedent in Spain. The Landcruiser Club there had received on its Forum several complaints about Diesel injectors, and the administrators of that site had succeeded in having a meeting with important Toyota Spain managers and officials. Toyota has issued a statement saying that all owners suffering from this problem would receive free repairs, even well after the end of the guarantee. This shows that perseverance and the proper approach may work.

I believe it would be just fair and in Toyota Europe’s interest if they would accept to consider the questions formulated above. The MMT technology may well have had initial problems which were since taken care of. Other cases have occurred in this branch of industry.

I am not writing to you as a Forum official, but as a simple TCV MMT owner. I know however, that the French CVT MMT owners would greet a kind of a Europe wide consumer request. Would you be interested to collaborate on a European level to bring this matter up to Toyota Europe, the only level which I feel is effective?

Mister MMT.

:meet:

[bjw]

Hello MMT drivers and debaters,

I’ve been reading all the messages on problems with the MMT gear box and found it extremely interesting. This message is my first one here, and I apologise for its length, if that seems a bit unusual.

I own since one year a CV MMT built in the fall of 2004. It totals 23.000 miles, 12.500 of them by me. Like several among you, I’m a satisfied MMT driver. My car hasn’t had a single problem so far! I bought my CV in exchange for a Corsa 1.2 Easytronic. The latter had a simpler robotized manual gear box. I had been using it daily for five years without any problem. I’ve been driving other automatic gearbox cars like a Rover Vitesse (sold after 100.000 miles), and a Picnic (which we still own: 120.000 miles).

I had tried the CV MMT three times before buying it. It took me a couple of weeks to adapt my driving style to it, and after that, I became very pleased with it. The Toyota dealer I bought it from offered me a 2 years Toyota extension, which just started running. For the moment, I feel safe.

I agree with all those saying this is not a conventional automatic gearbox, and that the user best adapts his style according to the recommendations provided by some of you.

I am a rather active member of the French TCVII Forum. Over the last 2 ½ years, we had about five cases of MMT failures, 4 of them were concerned with the “N” Symptoms. All of them were repaired under guarantee, albeit not always correctly from the first time. No relapses have been reported. All these owners are satisfied MMT drivers and continued to be afterwards.

My reading made me aware of the fact that in the UK, the MMT models are much more popular then in other countries. To me, it seems normal that there are more reports here on failures. We have many more reports on failures with diesel injectors, simply because in France, 75% of the TCVII are sold with this type of engine, and none of these is MMT equipped. I must say I do not consider the number of failures reported here over a 2 ½ years period to be a landslide. In the absence of more information, they could as well indicate a nice robustness, since no car part is fail safe.

Reading the messages, however, instructed me about several points that are very useful to know.

1. Several times, repeated failures occurred on the same car, even when the complete system got repaired. In some cases, the workshop apparently did not exchange all the parts they should have, and this may have caused some of the relapses. It can therefore be strongly recommended that customers enquire for the full details of the repair, which should be effectuated according to the procedure described in Service bulletin CP5013 from May 2005. I can understand the despair and dismay of the owners who had expected better.

2. In some cases, failure occurs in circumstances which were considered dangerous by the drivers. An investigation is being conducted by the VOSA. This came as a big surprise to me, and seems worrying indeed. In my opinion, if officially recognized as authentic, one such case is one too much. I hope this investigation will shed light on the question.

3. One forum member tried obtaining from Toyota reliable figures on the percentage of MMT cars which have suffered from failures. Unfortunately, he was turned down. I sincerely regret this, since in this way, Toyota contributes to the persistence of all kinds of hypotheses, which cannot be verified. I’ll give an example below. Unfortunately for us consumers, this kind of information is never provided by any of the car manufacturers, unless forced by law. I hope they realise how this policy can tarn a reputation in a highly competitive marketplace. Forums like this attract a wide readership, and many people tend to overreact a bit upon reading even a few reports of people understandably devastated by their bad experience.

4. A somewhat more reliable source for enquiring about customer satisfaction and car reliability then a Forum are the yearly JD Power reports or the like, and the statistics of car assistance associations (I do not know their name in the UK). Globally, on the Continent, the TCVII, Corolla and Yaris models seem to give satisfaction to their owners and rank among the most reliable cars on the market. Unfortunately, for the MMT models, no separate statistics are known, although I may have missed some.

This brings me to my final point, and the reason I wish to contribute to your ongoing debate.

Another member, known as reliable and serious, has reported a statement of a technician of his workshop, according to which the CV MMT cars built until December 2005 were all having a construction failure known to Toyota, and that sooner or later, they would all go down the road to failure. He also stated that after December 2005, Toyota fixed the problem, and that the failure rate since then had dropped drastically. The fix consists of the addition of a metal or rubber joint somewhere in the system. (Sorry for not being more precise, I am not a car technician). In the absence of this modification, it was said that oil could spill on the clutch disk when the gearbox was put under strong torque demand, like during climbing, stop and go traffic, or at roundabouts. Toyota was said to have decided not to make a recall, but instead, to repair the cars under guarantee, as they come in for repair.

I wish to make it clear here that this is an example of a non-verified statement which anybody can read on our Forum. I cannot take any warranty or liability for its content. After giving it some thought, I decided it would be worthwhile to bring this matter up here, in view of the larger number of MMT cars in the UK and your experience with this matter.

Messages of the kind reported on here raise the following questions:

1. Do CV MMT cars built before December 2005 have a “vice caché”, or hidden failure, known to the manufacturer? Was it considered by them as not needing a recall, since it is not representing a danger for car safety, and since it is always repaired under guarantee?

2. What if indeed in certain circumstances, a failure of this nature involves exposing the car’s occupants to dangerous situations? If it could be proven that Toyota neglected to take a more precautious attitude, like they did with the passenger airbag, are they not running the risk of a large number of complaints before justice?

3. What will happen to owners who have a failure after the end of the guarantee period, and even encounter more failures? I noticed already at least one such case in your forum, but I did not find out whether Toyota accepted to pay for part or all of the expenses. These may amount to ¼ of the remaining value of the car! We will see an increasing number of owners facing this problem. In case the MMT had a vice cache, will Toyota give these customers free repair? Until which mileage?

4. What will be the impact on reselling an MMT car when its reputation continues to go down?

I think these questions merit our attention and need clarification by finding the real facts. I recently wrote a letter to Toyota in my country formulating these questions, but individual action has little chance of success. The best way would be to engage a discussion with Toyota Europe officials. Although very often, this is utopia, there is an interesting precedent in Spain. The Landcruiser Club there had received on its Forum several complaints about Diesel injectors, and the administrators of that site had succeeded in having a meeting with important Toyota Spain managers and officials. Toyota has issued a statement saying that all owners suffering from this problem would receive free repairs, even well after the end of the guarantee. This shows that perseverance and the proper approach may work.

I believe it would be just fair and in Toyota Europe’s interest if they would accept to consider the questions formulated above. The MMT technology may well have had initial problems which were since taken care of. Other cases have occurred in this branch of industry.

I am not writing to you as a Forum official, but as a simple TCV MMT owner. I know however, that the French CVT MMT owners would greet a kind of a Europe wide consumer request. Would you be interested to collaborate on a European level to bring this matter up to Toyota Europe, the only level which I feel is effective?

Mister MMT.

:meet:

It is nice to hear from a satisfied owner of a MMT Verso! Toyota seem to have taken responsibility for the problems that MMt owners are having and are trying to find a solution ! it would be interesting to hear from new owners as to if the problem still exists on the newer cars ?

It is unclear whether the problem has died down or owners of the problem vehicles have sold there cars and moved on

You commented you may have to adjust your driving style ? my personal opinion is that a car is a car you get in it and drive it ! you should not have to think about it ! if you have too the design may be at fault but I am no expert

regards

[Mister MMT]

It is nice to hear from a satisfied owner of a MMT Verso! Toyota seem to have taken responsibility for the problems that MMt owners are having and are trying to find a solution ! it would be interesting to hear from new owners as to if the problem still exists on the newer cars ?

It is unclear whether the problem has died down or owners of the problem vehicles have sold there cars and moved on

You commented you may have to adjust your driving style ? my personal opinion is that a car is a car you get in it and drive it ! you should not have to think about it ! if you have too the design may be at fault but I am no expert

regards

OK, this was not really the emphasis of my message, but since you raise this point once more, I am glad to express my opinion more clearly. I will need to repeat in part what others said before...

Your opinion is as good as anybody else's. My opinion is as follows:

You can drive such cars anyway you like, that's up to you, but you risk to not liking it at all. And that would be a pity.

A Fact is that MMT gearboxes have a few drawbacks which put off those that do not wish to adapt to them. It is also a Fact that with some adjustment, one can avoid almost all the drawbacks, and really benefit a lot from the choices they offer (at least in the CV and Auris cars).

I submit to you: if that is true, is it not worth the effort?

Advantages:

When you use it in the M mode, you dispose of rapidly and smoothly shifting gears, without using your left foot. It provides you with full control, for example in mountaineous regions. I agree with others saying that it would have been preferable the - and + would be inversed, but one gets used to it.

When using it in the E mode, it is really easy to learn getting control over when a gear is shifted, with the proper movements of your right foot. This mode is liked by fuel economy minded people, since it really helps lowering fuel consumption. I would think this is a major argument and a big motivator for adapting your style.

The Es mode allows you to rev and take pleasure. I sometimes use it when I am in a hurry.

Disadvantages:

An MMT box calls for an adapted driving style. This is not acceptable to a number of people, and some of these are right saying Toyota should be communicating better on these points.

MMT boxes are technically more complex and may be more failure prone than conventional manual ones. It cannot be excluded that not adopting an appropriate driving style increses the chances for failures. No facts, however, sustain such a statement.

The MMT technology is recent and it's possible that MMT boxes from the first series have a design which needed improvement. If this point turned out to be correct, owners of cars of that period would be entitled benefiting from a courteous repair policy. I took action in order to try and find out by writing to Toyota.

There is also the investigation by VOSA.

I agree it is better to await their conclusions before going much further with our discussions.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that using the MMT gearbox like a full automatic is erronic. Driving an MMT equipped car best involves driving in an adapted way, and this can be learned by anybody.

I you planned visiting Strasbourg, give me a sign and I'll be glad being your coach.

Mister MMT ;)

[tina-mmt]

My Corolla Verso is just under 4 years old - it's on an 04 plate.

At 15,000 miles I sufferd the mmt problems but as my driving was mainly restricted to quiet roads it wasn't such a major problem.

The worse situation I had was having the car 'cut-out' whilst in the middle of a 3-point turn. The car went into the garage and a modification fitted.

The car now has 23.000 miles on the clock. Last Friday I was driving on the M25, at speed, when the gear box jumped back into neutral. As I was travelling at speed I had enough momentum in the car to be able to move across to the hard shoulder.

I 'rebooted' the car and cautiously pulled back out again. Everything was fine for a few moments then suddenly it did it again. Fortunately I was in the slow lane, unfortunately the car did not have enough momentum this time to move into the hard shoulder. So with my 8 year old son sitting in the car I had to get out and push the car out of the path of a lorry!!!!! :ffs:

The police and Highways Agency were there in minutes and very helpful. The car however needed to be recoved and taken back to the Dealership for repair.

I have contacted Vosa (Vehicle Safety Unit - 0117 954 3247) who said they have had a meeting with Toyota and Toyota will be sending out a letter to all owners explaining how the car should be driven. This situation is not regarded as a safety issue and therefore Toyota will not be recalling the vehicles to have the modification fitted. The original modification, which has now failed, has been replaced with a new modification. I have today collected the car back from the garage and despite it having been practically rebuilt I do not have a lot of confidence in it. I purchased this 7-seater as I look after small children and need to be able to transport them safely. Is it now safe??

The parts, Boot clutch fork, clutch fork, clutch rel.brg, ball clutch fork, clutch, accumulator, computer etc etc at a nice price of £2428. I did manage however to get the bill reduced to £1300 but that's still a lot of money for something that, in my opinion, is a known technical fault with the Corolla Verso.

It is nice to hear from a satisfied owner of a MMT Verso! Toyota seem to have taken responsibility for the problems that MMt owners are having and are trying to find a solution ! it would be interesting to hear from new owners as to if the problem still exists on the newer cars ?

It is unclear whether the problem has died down or owners of the problem vehicles have sold there cars and moved on

You commented you may have to adjust your driving style ? my personal opinion is that a car is a car you get in it and drive it ! you should not have to think about it ! if you have too the design may be at fault but I am no expert

regards

OK, this was not really the emphasis of my message, but since you raise this point once more, I am glad to express my opinion more clearly. I will need to repeat in part what others said before...

Your opinion is as good as anybody else's. My opinion is as follows:

You can drive such cars anyway you like, that's up to you, but you risk to not liking it at all. And that would be a pity.

A Fact is that MMT gearboxes have a few drawbacks which put off those that do not wish to adapt to them. It is also a Fact that with some adjustment, one can avoid almost all the drawbacks, and really benefit a lot from the choices they offer (at least in the CV and Auris cars).

I submit to you: if that is true, is it not worth the effort?

Advantages:

When you use it in the M mode, you dispose of rapidly and smoothly shifting gears, without using your left foot. It provides you with full control, for example in mountaineous regions. I agree with others saying that it would have been preferable the - and + would be inversed, but one gets used to it.

When using it in the E mode, it is really easy to learn getting control over when a gear is shifted, with the proper movements of your right foot. This mode is liked by fuel economy minded people, since it really helps lowering fuel consumption. I would think this is a major argument and a big motivator for adapting your style.

The Es mode allows you to rev and take pleasure. I sometimes use it when I am in a hurry.

Disadvantages:

An MMT box calls for an adapted driving style. This is not acceptable to a number of people, and some of these are right saying Toyota should be communicating better on these points.

MMT boxes are technically more complex and may be more failure prone than conventional manual ones. It cannot be excluded that not adopting an appropriate driving style increses the chances for failures. No facts, however, sustain such a statement.

The MMT technology is recent and it's possible that MMT boxes from the first series have a design which needed improvement. If this point turned out to be correct, owners of cars of that period would be entitled benefiting from a courteous repair policy. I took action in order to try and find out by writing to Toyota.

There is also the investigation by VOSA.

I agree it is better to await their conclusions before going much further with our discussions.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that using the MMT gearbox like a full automatic is erronic. Driving an MMT equipped car best involves driving in an adapted way, and this can be learned by anybody.

I you planned visiting Strasbourg, give me a sign and I'll be glad being your coach.

Mister MMT ;)

[bjw]

That is absolutely appalling the thought of a member of your family could be stranded on a motorway sends shivers up my back

I suggest you contact Toyota customer services and challenge the £1300 bill ! a car which is just under 4 years old and has travelled 23,000 miles with a known history of problem auto boxes should receive a free repair

Avensis owners have had oil burning issues and Toyota have done free engine rebuilds well after the 3 year warranty had expired also the Avensis have had problems with the light bulbs melting in there holders I believe these were replaced after the warranty had expired free of charge.

Your comments that the VOSA if true ( which I am sure they are ) are not regarding this as safety issue does not surprise me as I have commented before I do not have any confidence that they will handle this problem any better than the Vauxhall handbrake issue or the Renault bonnet release problem.

When you lose confidence in a vehicle perhaps its best to trade it in but not everybody will be in a financial position to do so

Now Christmas is coming perhaps the must have accessory for all Verso MMT owners is a high visibility jacket

[R Tang]

Quite right bjw! I couldn't believe that tina-mmt should have to pay for the job as the first repair took place when the car was still in warranty and it is the same problem.

VOSA disappoints me! Driving style does n't matter if the gearbox don't allow us to drive-it's unrelaible. There are problems with it otherwise how come there are so many break downs. So when can't they just come out clean and change the necessary part instead of waiting people to break down first and then let owners losing the trust of the brand and then leaving Toyota altogether. If they like this process then good luck with them.

On a further note, I went to the Tokyo Motorshow last week. On the Toyota stand, none of the car had mmt gearbox-I wonder why! With my Japanese friend, we spoke to a Technical Advisor the show. He told me cars such as Voxy-a 7seater, have conventional auto box, one you can still change gear if you wished, but has park features and does still creep forward. He didn't know much about the mmt but has heard of it. He also said as in Japan, 80% people drives autos so they got to be relaible. So obviously, Toyota Japan knows the mmt is not reliable and so there is no way they are going to have this unrelaible product in their home competive country!

R

[versowner]

They are sending out a letter describing how the car should be driven?!! that's ridiculous and an insult!

So we've all been driving the car correctly but at 15,000 miles we all suddenly forget how the car should be driven. Then once it's been in the garage for "repair" we all immediately start driving correctly again, but then after a few thousand more miles we go back to our old ways and start driving incorrectly???

Do I have this right... are they trying to blame our driving style for the problems??