Corolla Verso Mmt Problems

[Mister MMT]

Mister MMT,

Thank you for your response. There is no doubt in my mind that early MMT have a serious and dangerous fault. The car is a second vehicle and used mainly by my wife. We purchased at 13,000 miles straight after the first repair. The second clutch did 17,000 miles before repeat failure. Driving has been a mixture of motorway runs and supermarket trips, the majority being less than 20 miles in suburban traffic.

As for pleased with the MMT, that would have to be a NO! I don’t like things that go wrong repeatedly….. The drive is okay, personally I have been driving 5 series BMW’s for quite a number of years and love both the drive and smoothness of the BMW auto boxes! I get on well enough with the MMT and the build quality and reputation of Toyota was an attraction. This said I would have preferred a proper auto.

I don’t understand a lot of the comments about driving the car incorrectly. You really cant, if you don’t ease off the gas when it changes you get a seriously poor drive, it was quick and easy enough to get used to.

Regarding your comments about numbers on the forum, it was only the diabolical support offered from Toyota’s head office that instigated me signing up. I doubt I’m in a minority, I wanted to share my experience with others in the hope that the greater the numbers the more hope we have of a satisfactory resolution from Toyota.

My situation is quite simple, I understand electronic and mechanical items will have faults. Manufacturers try and minimise this but it will inevitably happen from time to time. When something of this nature happens I expect it to be resolved with the minimum pain to me. Toyota has not done anything to resolve, I have later found out that they have withheld information that would have helped my case.

Both the Toyota dealers I have been working with on this have been fantastic, Professional, courteous and very helpful. Toyota head office has been at fault and as a result I will never buy a Toyota again, neither will many of the friends and acquaintances that seen the way Toyota have handled this. Customer service particularly if poor travels fast and is very damaging to a companies reputation.

A point worth noting – The clutch is guaranteed for 3 years from fitting. So my clutch is still in warranty (the second one). Something Toyota Head Office negated to tell me during any of the numerous discussions.

May I urge people again to pursue this with Watchdog

Thanks

AE

Dear essinghigh,

Your points are well taken. I'll comment the sentences marked in color.

1. It has occurred in early days that first repairs were not done correctly. Could this have been the case here?

2. Me too, I'd prefered a full automatic, as on our Picnic. But these too, can break. One should also consider the excellent fuel economy the MMT transmission allows getting, and its much lower price. And with current concerns about CO2 exhaust, this is an important argument, at least to me. One cannot expect the identical comfort. I simply find it an extremely versatile system.

3. I fully agree, incorrect handling is punished by a very unpleasant drive. It also incites to a "relaxed" drive.

4. I'm less sure I agree here. Sure, as long Toyota handles a failure without problems, one may not want to report to a Forum, but some do. I still feel that only 4 or 5 problem reports on over 160 members is fairly low. Likewise, the ca 30 cases on this Forum is not astounding in view of the much higher sales of MMT vehicles in GB, and the notoriority of the TUC. If failure frequency were really high, one would know it, and Toyota would make a recall. The only troublesome matter to me is the security issue.

5. I fully agree that Toyota GB is doing a very poor job, harmful to its own intersts, and fully unacceptable. These messages will be read by very many people. You, and who knows how many others, will never buy a Toyota again.

6. This is the max: if your car is under warranty, why would you not be entitled a free repair ? But how come that you did not know your car is still under warranty? I also urge you to buy a warranty extension of at least two years. Your car is worth it, and in case you would like to sell it, it will help you getting a better price. In fact, I feel Toyota ought to offer you one, because of this very gros mistake they made.

I look forward to read more news from you. Cheers, and good luck!

Mister MMT.

[essinghigh]

Mister MMT,

Thanks for you comments, they are appreciated. To clarify on the clutch warranty

A point worth noting – The clutch is guaranteed for 3 years from fitting. So my clutch is still in warranty (the second one). Something Toyota Head Office negated to tell me during any of the numerous discussions.

The second clutch was fitted at the "first fix" at approx 1 year. (2005) thus the 3 year starts from fitting, so the repaired clutch is under warranty until 2008. The warranty on the car ran out when it reached its 3rd birthday (2007)

Regards,

AE

[Mister MMT]

Mister MMT,

Thanks for you comments, they are appreciated. To clarify on the clutch warranty

A point worth noting – The clutch is guaranteed for 3 years from fitting. So my clutch is still in warranty (the second one). Something Toyota Head Office negated to tell me during any of the numerous discussions.

The second clutch was fitted at the "first fix" at approx 1 year. (2005) thus the 3 year starts from fitting, so the repaired clutch is under warranty until 2008. The warranty on the car ran out when it reached its 3rd birthday (2007)

Regards,

AE

Hello AE,

This is indeed an important point, and thank you for bringing this up! I wonder how many owners are aware of this. Do you have this information in an offical document? I for exemple, thought the warranty to be limited to one year. Having contacts in Germany, Belgium and France, I'll try and find out the repair warranty in these countries. If not done yet, it would be useful if this information could be posted to the attention of all the members of the TUC, since it should apply to all critical parts of the cars. Could one of the moderators or administrators take care of this, please? In France, for example, we have an epidemia on Diesel injectors on the 2.2 D-4D engines!

How come neither your dealer and chief-mechanic, nor the Toyota Head Office made you aware of this? Does this mean that your failure will be repaired without cost?

Regards,

Mister MMT B)

[essinghigh]

Mister MMT,

I was informed by the dealer this was only for the clutch. The other components only have a 1 year warranty, so I will be able to get the clutch and labour without cost to myself – Just leaving the Computer assembly @ £481 and Clutch Actuator @ £504.70 to battle over, and of course the labour! But it is a start.

I just called Mr Clutch and they offer a 2 year warranty on all clutch so 3 years from Toyota is quite probable.

Thanks

AE

[Mister MMT]

Mister MMT,

I was informed by the dealer this was only for the clutch. The other components only have a 1 year warranty, so I will be able to get the clutch and labour without cost to myself – Just leaving the Computer assembly @ £481 and Clutch Actuator @ £504.70 to battle over, and of course the labour! But it is a start.

I just called Mr Clutch and they offer a 2 year warranty on all clutch so 3 years from Toyota is quite probable.

Thanks

AE

AE !

this seems very complicated to me! I indeed thought I knew the legal warranty on repaired parts is only one year, and had therefore problems believing your statement of three years. In addition, a clutch, is that not the part of a transmission which is prone to wear ? Did the dealer explain why ithere is an exception for this part? Does this hold only for MMT transmissions, or is this also true for clutches of manual transmissions? I am aware these are somewhat difficult questions, but could you please inquire with your dealer? If anyone else knows, it would be nice to tell us.

I am left with the conclusion that in the absence of a proven "vice caché" (hidden construction failure), Toyota is not legally obliged to take part in the repair costs you cite. You or anybody else will have to prove such a failure exists. It could be a worthwhile undertaking, but I am not convinced of its chances of success, for reasons I explained in previous posts.

On the other hand, the costs are high, and more people will encounter the same problem. My advise to Toyota (but why would they take it into account?) is to give priority to customer satisfaction, and offer you and others in the near future, a decent price reduction. After all, the MMT technology is recent, and certainly plagued by "juvenile disease", which Toyota indeed has taken care of. Other car makers have similar problems, and they often help out the clients. frustrated to serve as guinea pigs. One can really hope Toyota reconsiders its policy with respect to this item! Are you ready for the battle?

Cheers,

Jan

[s3achris]

Hi, I had to sign up to this forum. We have this same problem on our Verso.

MMT gearbox is slipping out of gear while driving. its dangrous and a bad manufacturing fault. The car is 3 1/2 years old. It was modified \ Fixed at a year old. now after another 17,000 miles we have the issue.

This is what we need for the repair and the cost of the parts:

Computer assembely - £481.

Clutch Actuator - £504.70

Clutch Fork - £20.25

Clutch Fork Ball - £6.31

Default part (Bolt?) £5.29

Clutch Plate - £178.29

£1405.39 that Toyota WILL NOT PAY.

I have spoken at length with Jenny Shipley and her manager Jo Waddlive (customer service manager Tel 01737 363 633) at Toyota head office. They will not do a thing. The admit the fault but will not repair - Not even at a reduced cost.

I have been in touch with watchdog

PLEASE DO LODGE A COMPLAINT WITH WATCHDOG.

DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE CARS not matter how cheap.

for a company that pride themselves on replutation I can not belive the way they are behaving over this.

AE

Do I wish that I'd read this forum before choosing the Verso MMT!! Like an idiot I didnt test drive an MMT model but wrongly assumed it would be a smooth automatic. On my 55 plate T3 after 2 years and 38k business miles, I've found a way to try and cover the most obvious flaws regarding the appalling 1st to 2nd gearbox jerks in motorway traffic.

It seems that I am lucky that this gearbox has only now started to seriously play up. It managed to select neutral at speed on the motorway earlier this week. Fortunately I was travelling downhill at the time and managed to blunder my way to the hardshoulder. If I had been going uphill I would have been stranded in the carriageway on the M20 - this was potentially very dangerous. I also have had more than a few 'hairy' moments when putting my foot down to overtake, only to have the gearbox decide to change down which actually slows down the car, throws you forwards, scares the hell out of you, and potentially causes you to miss the overtake. All well and good if this doesn't surprise you. I would not be surprised if there have been some serious accidents as a direct result of this MMT box.

The other little trick it plays on me is after selecting reverse - sometimes it does not engage for a number of seconds, allowing you to build the revs up inadvertently before the thing engages and hurls you backwards much faster than you planned. This trick always then stinks the car with burnt clutch fumes.

My local Toyota garage have admitted to problems and say that they think my M20 problem was the clutch overheating. I managed to rectify the immediate problem by switching the engine off and back on.

My Wife refuses to drive the car, as she cannot get on at all with this gearbox.

Overall a good car let down by a hopelessly under developed gearbox. In my opinion the MMT box IS dangerous, and my advice is to opt for the manual.

[Mister MMT]

Do I wish that I'd read this forum before choosing the Verso MMT!! Like an idiot I didnt test drive an MMT model but wrongly assumed it would be a smooth automatic. On my 55 plate T3 after 2 years and 38k business miles, I've found a way to try and cover the most obvious flaws regarding the appalling 1st to 2nd gearbox jerks in motorway traffic.

It seems that I am lucky that this gearbox has only now started to seriously play up. It managed to select neutral at speed on the motorway earlier this week. Fortunately I was travelling downhill at the time and managed to blunder my way to the hardshoulder. If I had been going uphill I would have been stranded in the carriageway on the M20 - this was potentially very dangerous. I also have had more than a few 'hairy' moments when putting my foot down to overtake, only to have the gearbox decide to change down which actually slows down the car, throws you forwards, scares the hell out of you, and potentially causes you to miss the overtake. All well and good if this doesn't surprise you. I would not be surprised if there have been some serious accidents as a direct result of this MMT box.

The other little trick it plays on me is after selecting reverse - sometimes it does not engage for a number of seconds, allowing you to build the revs up inadvertently before the thing engages and hurls you backwards much faster than you planned. This trick always then stinks the car with burnt clutch fumes.

My local Toyota garage have admitted to problems and say that they think my M20 problem was the clutch overheating. I managed to rectify the immediate problem by switching the engine off and back on.

My Wife refuses to drive the car, as she cannot get on at all with this gearbox.

Overall a good car let down by a hopelessly under developed gearbox. In my opinion the MMT box IS dangerous, and my advice is to opt for the manual.

Dear s3achris,

I think your car is hit by the "N" problem discussed in the many posts of this thread. There are about 30 here, probably a fraction of those which happened. Your car needs urgent repair. Avoid driving it for longer times in the mean time. It will cost you > 1600 Pounds. I hope your car is still under warranty.

Could you please tell us a bit more about the car's history, repairs, driving conditions and style?

If no warranty covers the car, you'll have a similar problem as essinghigh and some others. I cannot repeat enough that MMT car owners whose car is still under warranty have strong interest in buing a Toyota warranty extension. Please read the small text, because such warranties are degressive with mileage. One must hope more people will show up, and that in this way, Toyota GB will be forced to take action or loose many customers.

As I pointed out before, what worrries me most is the high probability we have a safety issue here. On request of several TUC members, the VOSA is doing an investigation. Its conclusions have not been made public yet. I therefore suggest you contact them. You can find the coordinates in the appropriate posts. Please do it, since the number of reports is still a bit on the low side.

I look forward to read more news from you. Cheers, and do not give up!

Mister MMT.

[s3achris]

Do I wish that I'd read this forum before choosing the Verso MMT!! Like an idiot I didnt test drive an MMT model but wrongly assumed it would be a smooth automatic. On my 55 plate T3 after 2 years and 38k business miles, I've found a way to try and cover the most obvious flaws regarding the appalling 1st to 2nd gearbox jerks in motorway traffic.

It seems that I am lucky that this gearbox has only now started to seriously play up. It managed to select neutral at speed on the motorway earlier this week. Fortunately I was travelling downhill at the time and managed to blunder my way to the hardshoulder. If I had been going uphill I would have been stranded in the carriageway on the M20 - this was potentially very dangerous. I also have had more than a few 'hairy' moments when putting my foot down to overtake, only to have the gearbox decide to change down which actually slows down the car, throws you forwards, scares the hell out of you, and potentially causes you to miss the overtake. All well and good if this doesn't surprise you. I would not be surprised if there have been some serious accidents as a direct result of this MMT box.

The other little trick it plays on me is after selecting reverse - sometimes it does not engage for a number of seconds, allowing you to build the revs up inadvertently before the thing engages and hurls you backwards much faster than you planned. This trick always then stinks the car with burnt clutch fumes.

My local Toyota garage have admitted to problems and say that they think my M20 problem was the clutch overheating. I managed to rectify the immediate problem by switching the engine off and back on.

My Wife refuses to drive the car, as she cannot get on at all with this gearbox.

Overall a good car let down by a hopelessly under developed gearbox. In my opinion the MMT box IS dangerous, and my advice is to opt for the manual.

Dear s3achris,

I think your car is hit by the "N" problem discussed in the many posts of this thread. There are about 30 here, probably a fraction of those which happened. Your car needs urgent repair. Avoid driving it for longer times in the mean time. It will cost you > 1600 Pounds. I hope your car is still under warranty.

Could you please tell us a bit more about the car's history, repairs, driving conditions and style?

If no warranty covers the car, you'll have a similar problem as essinghigh and some others. I cannot repeat enough that MMT car owners whose car is still under warranty have strong interest in buing a Toyota warranty extension. Please read the small text, because such warranties are degressive with mileage. One must hope more people will show up, and that in this way, Toyota GB will be forced to take action or loose many customers.

As I pointed out before, what worrries me most is the high probability we have a safety issue here. On request of several TUC members, the VOSA is doing an investigation. Its conclusions have not been made public yet. I therefore suggest you contact them. You can find the coordinates in the appropriate posts. Please do it, since the number of reports is still a bit on the low side.

I look forward to read more news from you. Cheers, and do not give up!

Mister MMT.

Dear Mister MMT

Thanks for your post. I am lucky in that the car is leased (and appears to be in warranty). My leasing companys (Leaseplan) Toyota expert has never heard of the problem (!) But fortunately my local garage in Canterbury have said that they know of 'problems' and will need a couple of days to rectify. They described the problem as an overheating clutch causing the box to select neutral ....presumably to save itself? The fact that saving the clutch can put the whole vehicle and passengers in danger seems to be a huge design fault.

I've leased the car from new and rapidly learnt that you have to treat the gearbox a certain way to make relatively smooth progress eg lifting the throttle slightly to encourage it to change gear etc. As a numpty, I thought it was a proper auto and I got a real shock the first time I drove it! Most of my mileage is M25 and apart from the dodgy reverse selection, smelly clutch in reverse, very slow changes down the box when you gas it to overtake and the lumpy 1st-2nd-1st transition in slow traffic its been fine!!!

I drive it most of the time in E (is this correct?) and occasionally in Es which has the faster gearchanges.

I will also write to VOSA because I think there is a safety issue.

I'll let you know how I get on - Thanks for your advice

Chris

[R Tang]

Dear all:

You may have by now recieved letter from VOSA stating there are no design or construction deficiency and Toyota GB is going to provide instruction to customers on how to use this complex gearbox and cheching upgrades on the transmission.

In my respose, I said I would like to know the sample of the Verso being tested, e.g., numbers and age.

SEcond, are they saying that driving the car like an conventional automatic will play up the gearbox?

Third, if no design fault was found, why upgrade of the transmission necessary? And wouldn't it be better for TGB to reacll all MMT cars and have the transmission upgraded BEFORE the problem occur!

Forth, what was the caused of the problem then? I think the pervious postings gave us more information!

Finally, are we allow to read the report?

I am rather disappointed to say the least of the response as I wanted some reasurrance.

R

[essinghigh]

All,

I was very disappointed by the response from VOSA, but little more than I expected really.

There is GOOD NEWS! Toyota have fixed my car :o

Sadly, this progression was made by me beginning legal proceedings against the dealer who sold me the car, this was done under the Sale of Goods Act, stating the car was not Fit For Purpose.

Toyota GB told me "there has been some Progression on the position with Toyota GB and the MMT Issue" and they will cover the FULL cost of repair.

The car has been in, repaired and is now back in my good care (On AutoTrader if anyone fancies it!!!)

This was a painful, nasty and unnecessary experience I would not wish to repeat. If you have out standing issues with Toyota GB on this, keep calling them, Writing to them and pushing them and hopefully you will get the same result.

Again I do urge people to contact Watchdog still until Toyota GB release an official recall.

Thanks everybody who have given support, knowing I was not alone helped.

AE

[Mister MMT]

Dear Mister MMT

Thanks for your post. I am lucky in that the car is leased (and appears to be in warranty). My leasing companys (Leaseplan) Toyota expert has never heard of the problem (!) But fortunately my local garage in Canterbury have said that they know of 'problems' and will need a couple of days to rectify. They described the problem as an overheating clutch causing the box to select neutral ....presumably to save itself? The fact that saving the clutch can put the whole vehicle and passengers in danger seems to be a huge design fault.

I've leased the car from new and rapidly learnt that you have to treat the gearbox a certain way to make relatively smooth progress eg lifting the throttle slightly to encourage it to change gear etc. As a numpty, I thought it was a proper auto and I got a real shock the first time I drove it! Most of my mileage is M25 and apart from the dodgy reverse selection, smelly clutch in reverse, very slow changes down the box when you gas it to overtake and the lumpy 1st-2nd-1st transition in slow traffic its been fine!!!

I drive it most of the time in E (is this correct?) and occasionally in Es which has the faster gearchanges.

I will also write to VOSA because I think there is a safety issue.

I'll let you know how I get on - Thanks for your advice

Chris

Dear Chris,

From the fresh newses, it looks like we'll have hard times convincing VOSA and Toyota that the "N" problem may create dangerous situations or has design and construction defaults.

On the other hand, I was pleased to hear Toyota now agreed to pay for the repair costs of essinghigh's car. I had almost given up on that. I hope it indeed indicates a change in approach. But in the process, Toyota again looses a client. I am eager to know which action Toyota is now planning. A recall? A warranty extension for certain series? It is a real pity things evolved so slowly and angered so many. It will not be easy for Toyota to repair the damage. Unfortunately, owners of MMT-equiped cars may have to endorse a loss of money on the resale price for their cars.

By reading some of the posts in this thread, you will be able to find usefull advise on how to handle the MMT gearbox. From what you say, I gather most of your's is OK. I sometimes drive exclusively in the M mode: Climbing and descending mountain roads, like in the nearby Black Forest, and in parking houses. I also use it in heavy downtown stop and go trafic, where I put the gear in the N position during longer stops. I avoid clutch slipping as much as possible. I use the Es mode, whenever I have a situation in which I wish swift reactivity. For example, after a turn onto a steep bridge ramp. I have a very relaxed driving style. Therefore, in most occasions, I like it when the gear puts itself in the 4th or 5th gear revving at 1500 to 2000 rpm. In this way, the MMT gearbox helps me keeping fuel consumprion low. And the 1.8 l engine shows its best side: marvelous "souplesse".

That's what I like so much about this gearbox. It by far does not offer the comfort of a full automatic. But it is much more comfortable then a manual box, and much more versatile. And that for a much lower price then a full automatic, which rises fuel consumption, especially in town.

My only problem with it is that we, the pioneers, will maybe have to pay for the initial imperfections, of which Toyota is very well aware, since they were taken care of in the mean time. We also do not know how long such a box remains failure free as a mean. Repair costs are high, failures should therefore be the exception. It is my conviction that each owner can contribute to a longer lifetime of it, but Toyota should consider rougher driving styles in its previsions. I hope that we are at the wake of announcements which should enable owners to be reassured about their choice, and the resale value of their car. I will then be able to recommend again the MMT gearbox to anybody who is knowing and accepting what it can offer and what not.

Greetings and "bon vent"

Jan ;)

[Yaz]

All,

I was very disappointed by the response from VOSA, but little more than I expected really.

There is GOOD NEWS! Toyota have fixed my car :o

Sadly, this progression was made by me beginning legal proceedings against the dealer who sold me the car, this was done under the Sale of Goods Act, stating the car was not Fit For Purpose.

Toyota GB told me "there has been some Progression on the position with Toyota GB and the MMT Issue" and they will cover the FULL cost of repair.

The car has been in, repaired and is now back in my good care (On AutoTrader if anyone fancies it!!!)

This was a painful, nasty and unnecessary experience I would not wish to repeat. If you have out standing issues with Toyota GB on this, keep calling them, Writing to them and pushing them and hopefully you will get the same result.

Again I do urge people to contact Watchdog still until Toyota GB release an official recall.

Thanks everybody who have given support, knowing I was not alone helped.

AE

I'm very sorry to hear so many people are having problems with MMT. I were one of those fancied to buy MMT until I came to this site.

In Japan most of automatic gear on Toyota comes with Super CVT or Super ECT and I believe they are full automatic rather than MMT. In Japan 99% of cars are automatic and no manual cars found in Market. So Toyota Japan can't really test MMT in Japan may be.... it sounds MMT is still early stage of technology, isn't it.

I'm now looking at Daihatsu Materia Auto (I think it is Toyota Bb in Japan) and comes with full automatic. It will lose third row, but may be better choice than MMT, isn't it? I wonder everyone else like Volkswagen or Vauxhall do better with thier semi-automatic? or possibly more or less same? I would love to know. I searched on google or yahoo but there isn't any other site discuss the issue as this depth in UK or even in the worldwide.

Kind regards

Yaz

[Mister MMT]

I'm very sorry to hear so many people are having problems with MMT. I were one of those fancied to buy MMT until I came to this site.

In Japan most of automatic gear on Toyota comes with Super CVT or Super ECT and I believe they are full automatic rather than MMT. In Japan 99% of cars are automatic and no manual cars found in Market. So Toyota Japan can't really test MMT in Japan may be.... it sounds MMT is still early stage of technology, isn't it.

I'm now looking at Daihatsu Materia Auto (I think it is Toyota Bb in Japan) and comes with full automatic. It will lose third row, but may be better choice than MMT, isn't it? I wonder everyone else like Volkswagen or Vauxhall do better with thier semi-automatic? or possibly more or less same? I would love to know. I searched on google or yahoo but there isn't any other site discuss the issue as this depth in UK or even in the worldwide.

Kind regards

Yaz

Dear Yaz,

Yes, I know the situation in Japan, and how important the notion of quality is in this country, that I had the pleasure to visit 3 times. These were highlights in my life. Just out of curiosity; Are there no car failures in what I suppose is your country?

To come to the MMT technology. In 2004-2005, this technology was indeed in its infancy, at least for Toyota. As they ought to do, and according to my best knowledge, Toyota has been improving both its functioning and its quality, so that today, I believe one can buy a Toyota with this transmission. Just take as a strong indication that Toyota decided to offer the new Auris, which is a very important car for its success in Europe, with an MMT gearbox.

The MMT is not an automatic system in the classical sense. It is a robotised 5 speed transmission. The advantages are: lower cost (half of an automatic); reduced fuel consumption (it incites to drive more cautiously, more cool); greater versatility (choice between M, E and Es modes; increased comfort over manual gearboxes. Its disadvantages: it is not as advanced as the DSG system form VW (which costs, however, twice as much); it may frustrate, and even disappoint, certain drivers (for exemple my wife!); and it needs some learning. Toyota has now understood (at last), the latter disadvantage, and it is said that they will provide better instructions.

If you happen to come from Japan, you'll probably know that Toyota takes at heart to improve its performance, especially in relationship with quality und customer satisfaction. I read they realized they were growing too fast, and had to take longer to develop new models. In the mean time, the problems you read about here, come from customers who are feeling used as beta-testers, and expect help when they encounter a problem. I hope essighigh's case is the beginning of a long awaited movement. I must say, that I was getting close to beginning to daubt about this Autocar maker. I hope this can still be corrected.

To conclude. If after extensive testing, you feel a Toyota with an MMT gearbox is suitable for your needs, go ahead and buy one. In order to avoid any bad surprise, negociate obtaining a warranty extension from the beginning. In Belgium, this is automatic. It's a shame this is not so in other countries.

This reflects my sincere, personal opinion. I take no advantage of promoting the MMT gearbox. I am just a satisfied owner. On the french Toyota Corolla Verso II Forum, where I post very frequently, you can read an equally informative thread (in french, I'm afraid), about the MMT transmission.

http://corollaversoii.forumactif.com/les-p...d14e6219c75dcf4

You'll need to register for access. It's free. . My user name thereis: De Mey, Jan. I warmly recommend this site to people interested in this Toyota model. Some users of early models have had the "N" problem. Over a period of now 4 years, four or five is amazingly few. I counted 30 here, and that too, appears low too me. In France, no Forum member sold its car. Others ma have, but did not tell us, of course.

I hope the above is helful, and would appreciate to hear more about your final choice.

Regards,

Jan

[Yaz]

I'm very sorry to hear so many people are having problems with MMT. I were one of those fancied to buy MMT until I came to this site.

In Japan most of automatic gear on Toyota comes with Super CVT or Super ECT and I believe they are full automatic rather than MMT. In Japan 99% of cars are automatic and no manual cars found in Market. So Toyota Japan can't really test MMT in Japan may be.... it sounds MMT is still early stage of technology, isn't it.

I'm now looking at Daihatsu Materia Auto (I think it is Toyota Bb in Japan) and comes with full automatic. It will lose third row, but may be better choice than MMT, isn't it? I wonder everyone else like Volkswagen or Vauxhall do better with thier semi-automatic? or possibly more or less same? I would love to know. I searched on google or yahoo but there isn't any other site discuss the issue as this depth in UK or even in the worldwide.

Kind regards

Yaz

Dear Yaz,

Yes, I know the situation in Japan, and how important the notion of quality is in this country, that I had the pleasure to visit 3 times. These were highlights in my life. Just out of curiosity; Are there no car failures in what I suppose is your country?

To come to the MMT technology. In 2004-2005, this technology was indeed in its infancy, at least for Toyota. As they ought to do, and according to my best knowledge, Toyota has been improving both its functioning and its quality, so that today, I believe one can buy a Toyota with this transmission. Just take as a strong indication that Toyota decided to offer the new Auris, which is a very important car for its success in Europe, with an MMT gearbox.

The MMT is not an automatic system in the classical sense. It is a robotised 5 speed transmission. The advantages are: lower cost (half of an automatic); reduced fuel consumption (it incites to drive more cautiously, more cool); greater versatility (choice between M, E and Es modes; increased comfort over manual gearboxes. Its disadvantages: it is not as advanced as the DSG system form VW (which costs, however, twice as much); it may frustrate, and even disappoint, certain drivers (for exemple my wife!); and it needs some learning. Toyota has now understood (at last), the latter disadvantage, and it is said that they will provide better instructions.

If you happen to come from Japan, you'll probably know that Toyota takes at heart to improve its performance, especially in relationship with quality und customer satisfaction. I read they realized they were growing too fast, and had to take longer to develop new models. In the mean time, the problems you read about here, come from customers who are feeling used as beta-testers, and expect help when they encounter a problem. I hope essighigh's case is the beginning of a long awaited movement. I must say, that I was getting close to beginning to daubt about this Autocar maker. I hope this can still be corrected.

To conclude. If after extensive testing, you feel a Toyota with an MMT gearbox is suitable for your needs, go ahead and buy one. In order to avoid any bad surprise, negociate obtaining a warranty extension from the beginning. In Belgium, this is automatic. It's a shame this is not so in other countries.

This reflects my sincere, personal opinion. I take no advantage of promoting the MMT gearbox. I am just a satisfied owner. On the french Toyota Corolla Verso II Forum, where I post very frequently, you can read an equally informative thread (in french, I'm afraid), about the MMT transmission.

http://corollaversoii.forumactif.com/les-p...d14e6219c75dcf4

You'll need to register for access. It's free. . My user name thereis: De Mey, Jan. I warmly recommend this site to people interested in this Toyota model. Some users of early models have had the "N" problem. Over a period of now 4 years, four or five is amazingly few. I counted 30 here, and that too, appears low too me. In France, no Forum member sold its car. Others ma have, but did not tell us, of course.

I hope the above is helful, and would appreciate to hear more about your final choice.

Regards,

Jan

I'm out of Japan for too long, so I'm not sure if what I write is the trend in Japan now. However, I still follow webpages, blogs in Japanese. I would imagine not too far from how it is.

Recall and car failing on road is still there and JAF(AA in UK) is doing a good job. The only thing is manufactures are still chasing Western car manufactures for perfection.

Auris is not avaialble with MMT in Japan, all 4WD/2WD come with Super-CVTi. So Toyota Japan isn't trying MMT in Japan, I read some blogs and people saying they wanted Auris with MMT on their Japanese Version. They wanted same interior in the car as sold as here.

The reliability of Toyota car is very high, (I think)they don't try high tech stuff as much as Honda or somebody else, they are just all right car which last long long time without major mechanical failure. My cousin who is mehanic in Japan said Nissan makes better engine than Toyota but body doesn't last. Toyota engine doesn't last not as long as Nissan,but over all they last long enough.

I myself had 3 cars in Japan all Toyota and had no major repair or what so ever. So this MMT issue is so strange not like Toyota does and I don't understand why Toyota or Aisin doesn't do anything rapidly. The posibble reason may be is that MMT market is not as big as other automatic like CVT model. So Toyota may not investing money as much as they should....

Kind regards

Yaz

[kentsi]

All,

I was very disappointed by the response from VOSA, but little more than I expected really.

There is GOOD NEWS! Toyota have fixed my car :o

Sadly, this progression was made by me beginning legal proceedings against the dealer who sold me the car, this was done under the Sale of Goods Act, stating the car was not Fit For Purpose.

Toyota GB told me "there has been some Progression on the position with Toyota GB and the MMT Issue" and they will cover the FULL cost of repair.

The car has been in, repaired and is now back in my good care (On AutoTrader if anyone fancies it!!!)

This was a painful, nasty and unnecessary experience I would not wish to repeat. If you have out standing issues with Toyota GB on this, keep calling them, Writing to them and pushing them and hopefully you will get the same result.

Again I do urge people to contact Watchdog still until Toyota GB release an official recall.

Thanks everybody who have given support, knowing I was not alone helped.

AE

Hi

I'm new to this site, so hope I am writing this in the right place. Congratulations on getting your car fixed.

Yesterday I booked my Toyota Verso MMT in to have the same repairs as you. After six weeks of negotiations the price was reduced from over two thousand pounds to just over a thousand pounds. I was relieved to have made a decision to proceed with the work, then read that you have got it all done with Toyota covering the costs - I now don't know whether to get the work done or continue the battle with Toyota.

We bought the car in Oct 2006 with a years warrenty, it is on an 04 number plate. Because of Toyota's reputation for reliability we choose not to extend the warranty. The car is 3 1/2 years old, we have owned it for just over a year. It had put itself into neutral when within warranty but we were told it was just a quirk and would be ok after three minutes. Now out of warranty the fault has reoccured more frequently.

Toyota GB have offered parts at trade price and the garage have offered labour at trade too. Someone at Toyote GB suggested that we contact trading standards who said the we were sold goods of unsatisfactory standard and we should contact the garage we bought it from and demand the work was done at their cost. We did this by phone and were told that after speeking to Toyota GB they had done the best they could for us. We assumed that to take the matter further could end up costing us legal fees and left it.

Please can you tell us how far down the legal route you went and do you have a name or phone number for the person who made the decision to cover the costs. Do you think the fact that your clutch had already been replaced put you in a stronger position?

Would be really grateful for any advice you have as this is all so stressful - as you know.

Thanks kentsi

[b1nya]

i have had problems starting the car up, the ignition comes on but doesnt turn over if anyone has a similar problems please reply back to me ASAP. thankyou for your time reading this message.

[bjw]

i have had problems starting the car up, the ignition comes on but doesnt turn over if anyone has a similar problems please reply back to me ASAP. thankyou for your time reading this message.

I think it would be a good idea to do a post on your problem in your own thread as you may find you will get more response

Hope it helps

[Dale T]

:o Well, add my Verso to the list of "N" problems. About an hour ago, while driving down the road in E, the transmission simply shifted to N and the car rolled to a stop, thankfully without an accident. Tell me that this isn't a safety problem? N began blinking, the transmission wouldn't shift into any other gear, including manual, and the MMT warning light came on. The car had only been on and driving for less than five minutes after sitting all day in a parking lot, so I have trouble believing this is an overheating gearbox problem.

It's a 2006 Verso, purchased in Ireland, and less than two years old. My job took me to India about a month after I bought the car, and I took the car with me. It was great -- now it's a lemon, and it's dangerous. I fear the Toyota dealer here in New Delhi won't be able to figure this one out.

Is there really a fix that can be trusted? I worry about my wife and family driving this car. Especially here.

Thanks,

Dale

[jaapkees]

Whilst driving on the motorway in Spain today, the gearbox shifted into neutral, but the gear stick stayed in E. Fortunately I did manage to move the car on to the hard shoulder. It is now at the Toyota garage.

From what I have been reading, this is a recuring problem with these cars?

[Belgo]

:o Well, add my Verso to the list of "N" problems. About an hour ago, while driving down the road in E, the transmission simply shifted to N and the car rolled to a stop, thankfully without an accident. Tell me that this isn't a safety problem? N began blinking, the transmission wouldn't shift into any other gear, including manual, and the MMT warning light came on. The car had only been on and driving for less than five minutes after sitting all day in a parking lot, so I have trouble believing this is an overheating gearbox problem.

It's a 2006 Verso, purchased in Ireland, and less than two years old. My job took me to India about a month after I bought the car, and I took the car with me. It was great -- now it's a lemon, and it's dangerous. I fear the Toyota dealer here in New Delhi won't be able to figure this one out.

Is there really a fix that can be trusted? I worry about my wife and family driving this car. Especially here.

Thanks,

Dale

Dear MMT Users,

After reading many of the postings on this site I can't help but think that Toyota has a real problem on their hands that will only get worse with time. When I see how many Toyota customers have experienced dangerous situations caused by this poor technology, I wonder if it is reasonable to speculate how many others have actually been injured or killed and their incidents have simply not been reported with the common link being the MMT.

To be clear I have not had a serious accident in my Toyota Corolla MMT, but I attribute that to divine intervention bolstered by lots of luck and my driving skills. Thinking back over the past 18 months of ownership the number of close calls is startling. My wife really hates driving the car. The rough shifts, especially up hill, are tough on her now that she is in the last two months of her pregnancy. She commented yesterday that she has started getting mild contractions from the jerking and the stress of city centre driving. To the untrained or unaccustomed driver, the consequences of driving this vehicle can be even more hair-raising and dangerous.

To that point, I was told by Toyota that I needed to be properly trained to drive the vehicle. Does that same training apply to my father, mother-in-law, or any other person who wants to use the car? I bought the car with the promise that it was an automatic. A test car was not available (a situation for which Toyota has acknowledged) but I was assured that it was an auto. That was a lie. The pattern of lying starts there. But where does it lead? What are the instructions to dealers from Toyota Europe? From Toyota Japan to Europe?

Hypothetically, if a US consumer lawyer where in my shoes, and he bought the MMT under the same false pretences, would Toyota tell him that he simply needs a bit of driving “re-education.” Realistically, what would be his reaction? In light of his own driving experience and how he was deceived by Toyota at the beginning, if that same lawyer were to read the customer testimonials in this thread, would he be reasonable in wondering if Toyota management were following a similar pattern of malevolent denial of responsibility for life and limb that was found in the much larger consumer tragedy know as the Ford Pinto? How does Toyota management make this customer whole before he gets injured or worse? How do I as a European customer get heard?

Is the Corolla MMT sold in the US? From this tread it appears that it is not sold in Japan. Was Europe targeted for the trial of this technology since consumer protection laws are relatively weak and fragmented on a country to country basis, with the possible exception of the UK? Does it boost Toyota’s kilometre per litre rate substantially enough to justify these complaints?

Toyota should face up to their mistake and replace the existing MMT with a proper auto at no cost to customers. In short, stop blaming the customer.

Belgo

(An angry and seemingly powerless Toyota MMT customer who is not a US consumer lawyer but wishes he were for this purpose)

[Mister MMT]

Dear MMT Users,

After reading many of the postings on this site I can't help but think that Toyota has a real problem on their hands that will only get worse with time. When I see how many Toyota customers have experienced dangerous situations caused by this poor technology, I wonder if it is reasonable to speculate how many others have actually been injured or killed and their incidents have simply not been reported with the common link being the MMT.

To be clear I have not had a serious accident in my Toyota Corolla MMT, but I attribute that to divine intervention bolstered by lots of luck and my driving skills. Thinking back over the past 18 months of ownership the number of close calls is startling. My wife really hates driving the car. The rough shifts, especially up hill, are tough on her now that she is in the last two months of her pregnancy. She commented yesterday that she has started getting mild contractions from the jerking and the stress of city centre driving. To the untrained or unaccustomed driver, the consequences of driving this vehicle can be even more hair-raising and dangerous.

To that point, I was told by Toyota that I needed to be properly trained to drive the vehicle. Does that same training apply to my father, mother-in-law, or any other person who wants to use the car? I bought the car with the promise that it was an automatic. A test car was not available (a situation for which Toyota has acknowledged) but I was assured that it was an auto. That was a lie. The pattern of lying starts there. But where does it lead? What are the instructions to dealers from Toyota Europe? From Toyota Japan to Europe?

Hypothetically, if a US consumer lawyer where in my shoes, and he bought the MMT under the same false pretences, would Toyota tell him that he simply needs a bit of driving “re-education.” Realistically, what would be his reaction? In light of his own driving experience and how he was deceived by Toyota at the beginning, if that same lawyer were to read the customer testimonials in this thread, would he be reasonable in wondering if Toyota management were following a similar pattern of malevolent denial of responsibility for life and limb that was found in the much larger consumer tragedy know as the Ford Pinto? How does Toyota management make this customer whole before he gets injured or worse? How do I as a European customer get heard?

Is the Corolla MMT sold in the US? From this tread it appears that it is not sold in Japan. Was Europe targeted for the trial of this technology since consumer protection laws are relatively weak and fragmented on a country to country basis, with the possible exception of the UK? Does it boost Toyota’s kilometre per litre rate substantially enough to justify these complaints?

Toyota should face up to their mistake and replace the existing MMT with a proper auto at no cost to customers. In short, stop blaming the customer.

Belgo

(An angry and seemingly powerless Toyota MMT customer who is not a US consumer lawyer but wishes he were for this purpose)

Dear belgo (en landgenoot),

My wife too hated the MMT drive, whereas I liked it a lot. But we knew this beforehand, and I became the exclusive driver, she driving the Picnic with a classic Auto gear. Recently, I bought an Avensis 1.8 Automatic gear, and I can confirm it provides more comfort, but it also eats horse power and costs double.

The problem is that in France, where I work, many Toyota dealers barely support this product. Is this also the case in Belgium? They do not care having a test car, nor provide the right information. In your case, they even lied. This can and should be blamed. On the other hand, I also believe that one should avoid buying a car without being sure it is suitable. All the main drivers should be involved in the process of car testing. In your case, your wife would have known this car is nothing for her, and you wouldn't have bought it.

I and others have written in this thread recommendations on how to use the MMT gear box best. This is what every seller should do, and should make sure is well understood and accepted. I recommend your wife gives these a try. It is simple: either the driver adapts to it, and very often, he or she starts liking it, or he/she fights it, and it becomes a hate relationship. Worse, not driving according to these simple rules is suspected to contributing to the "N" problem. Admittedly, this is unproven, and I consider this unacceptable, if it were true.

I personally continue to believe the MMT gear box is an intersting product. It is less expensive and offers the advantage of semi-automatic driving, with the versatility of a manuel gearbox. It is a pity that threads like these are written almost exclusively by those people who had problems and understandebly became angry. I propose you also read the french Toyota Corolla Verso II Forum, searching under "embrayage MMT" or "boite MMT".

http://corollaversoii.forumactif.com/index.htm

Here you will discover an interesting community of MMT drivers. Many of these have encountered the "N" problem, but remain very satisfied. I hope that reading this will illuminate the situation from a different side.

Best regards,

Jan ;)

[The Road]

Just received in the mail from Toyota GB a letter and revised Handbook on how to use the M-MT gearbox. I can only think that this is in response to some of the pressure being applied by external bodies and M-MT customers on Toyota.

The amazing thing is that they dare to mention that if you hear the medium pulse warning sound you have to pull over for 15 minutes in order to allow the clutch to cool. Would you ever get such a comment with regards to a normal auto gearbox?

It beggers belief!

[Blueverso]

Hi! I am new to the Forum. I got a three year old MMt T3 and yes, after one year it broke down. Jemca Edgware Road did the repair and six months later, the MMt box went again. I had look at this website and one of your members recommended the Twinspark in Hampstead so I went there. They told me Jemca did n't change all the correct parts! Anyway, the car is better, still jerky at times. Most of all no break downs.

I too got the lastest handbook. On page 2 it says the car "creep" but I don't think it does, try to park this car on a hill! I totally agree with The Road that it is mad to have to pull over for 15 mins. if you hear the beep sound. It seems Toyota are blaming us for driving the car too harsh and as a result it is heating up the clutch. When my car first broke down, the engine had just started and I moved 10 yards from my house! So I couldn't have burn thr clutch! ECU problem more like.

I must say by putting the gear into N when at traffic lights and stationary ,as recommended by the handbook, does help to cool the clutch down I think. But then you are using the handbrake a lot more-Toyota only recommend adjustment every two years so it has cost me money as I needed adjustments on first and third service.

I also wrote to VOSA and found out that the car they used was a 2007 model. Well, come on, most of us who had this gearbox problem appears to be the eariler versions, e.g., 2004-5. So they pick the wrong sample as I am sure all the new Verso must have had their modifications. As a result, I am not surprised that VOSA did n't find anything wrong.

I stiil feel that VOSA and Toyota should get all the 2004-5 premodified Verso back to the garage and have them checked out. Can't be that expensive and it is less dangerous. Further, this can keep the customers happy.

Blueverso.

[The Road]

I genuinely enjoy driving my verso M-MT (and so does my wife), so I don't want to sound too anti Verso here, however I get the impression that Toyota are saying please enjoy the driving experience of the M-MT, however if you come across a long traffic jam on a hill, then the car just isn't up to it. I don't know if anyone has noticed but the UK isn't the best place for avoiding traffic jams

I do find this very alarming!

[R Tang]

[quote name='Blueverso' date='Mar 21 2008, 03:21 PM' post='734220']

Hi! I am new to the Forum. I got a three year old MMt T3 and yes, after one year it broke down. Jemca Edgware Road did the repair and six months later, the MMt box went again. I had look at this website and one of your members recommended the Twinspark in Hampstead so I went there. They told me Jemca did n't change all the correct parts! Anyway, the car is better, still jerky at times. Most of all no break downs.

I too got the lastest handbook. On page 2 it says the car "creep" but I don't think it does, try to park this car on a hill! I totally agree with The Road that it is mad to have to pull over for 15 mins. if you hear the beep sound. It seems Toyota are blaming us for driving the car too harsh and as a result it is heating up the clutch. When my car first broke down, the engine had just started and I moved 10 yards from my house! So I couldn't have burn thr clutch! ECU problem more like.

I must say by putting the gear into N when at traffic lights and stationary ,as recommended by the handbook, does help to cool the clutch down I think. But then you are using the handbrake a lot more-Toyota only recommend adjustment every two years so it has cost me money as I needed adjustments on first and third service.

I also wrote to VOSA and found out that the car they used was a 2007 model. Well, come on, most of us who had this gearbox problem appears to be the eariler versions, e.g., 2004-5. So they pick the wrong sample as I am sure all the new Verso must have had their modifications. As a result, I am not surprised that VOSA did n't find anything wrong.

I stiil feel that VOSA and Toyota should get all the 2004-5 premodified Verso back to the garage and have them checked out. Can't be that expensive and it is less dangerous. Further, this can keep the customers happy.

Blueverso.

Hi everyone:

Haven't been in touch and I see that there seems to be less Verso owners with MMT problems which is a good thing.

Anyway, I too shared blueverso's concerns so I called Mr Ryder at VOSA two weeks ago. He kindly clarified some of our concerns.

First, he said he couldn't find any older Verso to test as there were none without the modifications done to the MMt gearbox. He said that when a Verso goes into a service, a code will come up to check or replace the MMt gearbox. So my guess is that some owners missed their serviced after their 3 yr warranty is up and as result had to pay for the bill!

Second, Mr Ryder said a lot of these garages are on a tight timetable-in order to get their bonus, they offen don't do a good job and miss things out. AS a result, MMt Versos are breaking down after their first repair. Toyota GB have now said that Dealers must pay for the bill if they don't follow their MMt repair procedures. That why I got an extra years warranty from my Dealer!

Going onto the why the MMt breaks down, there were two-ECU causing the gear to deselect and, clutch over heating. Hopefully the modification has done its job and owners have all recieved the new instruction manual from Toyota GB on how to aviod clutch over heating. May I add that I now put the gear in N whenever I stop so that the clutch doesn't heat up.

Finally Mr Ryder thinks that the modifications should mean the car is now trouble free but any problems, please write to him. see pervious postings for address.

Cheers

RT