Corolla Verso Mmt Problems

[Toyotaletmedown]

I genuinely enjoy driving my verso M-MT (and so does my wife), so I don't want to sound too anti Verso here, however I get the impression that Toyota are saying please enjoy the driving experience of the M-MT, however if you come across a long traffic jam on a hill, then the car just isn't up to it. I don't know if anyone has noticed but the UK isn't the best place for avoiding traffic jams

I do find this very alarming!

I bought a Yaris in Sep 03 without seeing/testing the car!I was assured it was an automatic.The car was very jerky/ sometimes it would lounge forwards,not smooth in gear changes and not a poroper automatic! - well what a nightmare. Numerious complaints to Westover in Bournemouth and then to Toyota Head Office with no success. Had no choice but to put up with it after we purchased it on Finance - I now have only two payments left with Toyota ( Do I refuse to pay them ???? )

From last October the car's gearbox while driving has not engaged into gear. It was just free wheeling along. The AA could not work it out, I took it back to Kings Toyota in Southampton and was advised a few cars have been returned with this fault - they reformatted the gearbox. The problem persitted where it was breaking down once/twice a week - where ever I was driving and the gearbox just stopped I had to pullover ( how dangerous was this) and after waiting for 2 minutes it would be back to normal.

Last week was the worst - I had the children and it broke down 8 times in a day - On the fly over! It was booked in last Friday - An hour and a half later ( I could see they only spent 20 mins on the car) He delivered an invoice saying it was a very worn clutch and this would cost £791 to replace. After telling him the history he advised he would contact Toyota to see if they would meet the costs. This morning he phones and they are prepared to discount the part down to £151 and Kings would discount the labour buy £100. I explained this was not acceptable - in anger I started my search through Goggle and found this site. I am a disabled driver and only hold a licence for an Automatic - I can't afford to pay this - I would be greatly appreciated if anyone can give any advice on what I can do.

Thankyou

[bjw]

I bought a Yaris in Sep 03 without seeing/testing the car!I was assured it was an automatic.The car was very jerky/ sometimes it would lounge forwards,not smooth in gear changes and not a poroper automatic! - well what a nightmare. Numerious complaints to Westover in Bournemouth and then to Toyota Head Office with no success. Had no choice but to put up with it after we purchased it on Finance - I now have only two payments left with Toyota ( Do I refuse to pay them ????

You will not gain anything by refusing to settle the finance on your car the only thing you will achieve is to affect your credit rating so make sure you settle it !!!

The problem is your car is now 5 years old how long have you owned it ??if you could prove that any recall work or upgrades to the original system had not been done it may help your case.

I really do sympathise with your problems and hope you are able to sort things out to your satisfaction.

[Mister MMT]

I genuinely enjoy driving my verso M-MT (and so does my wife), so I don't want to sound too anti Verso here, however I get the impression that Toyota are saying please enjoy the driving experience of the M-MT, however if you come across a long traffic jam on a hill, then the car just isn't up to it. I don't know if anyone has noticed but the UK isn't the best place for avoiding traffic jams

I do find this very alarming!

I bought a Yaris in Sep 03 without seeing/testing the car!I was assured it was an automatic.The car was very jerky/ sometimes it would lounge forwards,not smooth in gear changes and not a poroper automatic! - well what a nightmare. Numerious complaints to Westover in Bournemouth and then to Toyota Head Office with no success. Had no choice but to put up with it after we purchased it on Finance - I now have only two payments left with Toyota ( Do I refuse to pay them ???? )

From last October the car's gearbox while driving has not engaged into gear. It was just free wheeling along. The AA could not work it out, I took it back to Kings Toyota in Southampton and was advised a few cars have been returned with this fault - they reformatted the gearbox. The problem persitted where it was breaking down once/twice a week - where ever I was driving and the gearbox just stopped I had to pullover ( how dangerous was this) and after waiting for 2 minutes it would be back to normal.

Last week was the worst - I had the children and it broke down 8 times in a day - On the fly over! It was booked in last Friday - An hour and a half later ( I could see they only spent 20 mins on the car) He delivered an invoice saying it was a very worn clutch and this would cost £791 to replace. After telling him the history he advised he would contact Toyota to see if they would meet the costs. This morning he phones and they are prepared to discount the part down to £151 and Kings would discount the labour buy £100. I explained this was not acceptable - in anger I started my search through Goggle and found this site. I am a disabled driver and only hold a licence for an Automatic - I can't afford to pay this - I would be greatly appreciated if anyone can give any advice on what I can do.

Thankyou

Dear Toyotaletmedown,

I also sympatise with you. Having a breakdown on a gearbox is always cumbersome.

I feel your problem is treated correctly, since you are apparently the first owner and driving your car for almost five years without a clutch problem. The wear is not abnormal, and should be taken into account for calculating your contribution. I therefore feel Toyotas offer is not unfair. It is not rare to replace a clutch on a five years old car, even on manual ones. It depends a lot the driving conditions. What many people do not know is that today's cars are very complicated, therfore more failure prone. Repair costs can be fairly high indeed.

I also wish to point out that this thread deals with a recurrent problem on the Corolla Verso II that, according to many people here, has to do with a design failure. Many cars break down when no older then two or three years, and the repair is costing about three times that you would have had to pay. To my knowledge, the Yaris MMT model is not suffering form such a problem. Zero failures do not exist, also not with Toyota. Bjw's advise is very straitforward, and is your only hope to get an even better offer.

I just wanted to give you my opinion and point out the situation here to you.

Best regards

Jan

[Hossam Kamal]

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

I have bought a new corolla 2008 with system MMT gear box ( in Egypt ) with flap shifts behind the Steering wheel for manual shifting in addition to the gear knob. when i face the N problem, i found that i can use the flap shifts, while on E mode, only ones to re engage the gear , therefore I like to question whether this method of driving right or not, if right I believe that will reduce the N problem

[Hossam Kamal]

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

I have bought a new corolla 2008 with system MMT gear box ( in Egypt ) with flap shifts behind the Steering wheel for manual shifting in addition to the gear knob. when i face the N problem, i found that i can use the flap shifts, while on E mode, only ones to re engage the gear , therefore I like to question whether this method of driving right or not, if right I believe that will reduce the N problem

any reply

[Mister MMT]

I have bought a new corolla 2008 with system MMT gear box ( in Egypt ) with flap shifts behind the Steering wheel for manual shifting in addition to the gear knob. when i face the N problem, i found that i can use the flap shifts, while on E mode, only ones to re engage the gear , therefore I like to question whether this method of driving right or not, if right I believe that will reduce the N problem

any reply

Dear Hossam Kamal,

I am also surprised how unreactive this thread has become. I guess that many of the people who had problems have finally sold their car and are no longer interested. That's what i see is happening in France and Germany, even with people who got a free repair when the garantee period was ended. They lost trust.

I believe on the contrary, that over time, we will see more persons hit by the "N" problem on Corolla Verso's built before 2006, as the MMT systems wills start wearing. And then these will no longer be under guarantee, and much will depend on how Toyota will handle these cases.

I wonder whether you really drive a Corolla and not an Auris, since to my best knowledge, that's the only model equipped with flap shifts. Is the Auris still called Corolla in your country?

I'm also not sure I understand your problem correctly. Do you already encounter the "N" problem as described here in this thread, or is your question meant for in case you would encounter it? I heard that the Corolla Verso 2008 models are now much more reliable, and that's why I ask these questions. I am also not aware of problem with the Auris model.

It is nice to talk through this channel with an Egyptian!

Best regards,

Jan ;)

[Hossam Kamal]

I have bought a new corolla 2008 with system MMT gear box ( in Egypt ) with flap shifts behind the Steering wheel for manual shifting in addition to the gear knob. when i face the N problem, i found that i can use the flap shifts, while on E mode, only ones to re engage the gear , therefore I like to question whether this method of driving right or not, if right I believe that will reduce the N problem

any reply

Dear Hossam Kamal,

I am also surprised how unreactive this thread has become. I guess that many of the people who had problems have finally sold their car and are no longer interested. That's what i see is happening in France and Germany, even with people who got a free repair when the garantee period was ended. They lost trust.

I believe on the contrary, that over time, we will see more persons hit by the "N" problem on Corolla Verso's built before 2006, as the MMT systems wills start wearing. And then these will no longer be under guarantee, and much will depend on how Toyota will handle these cases.

I wonder whether you really drive a Corolla and not an Auris, since to my best knowledge, that's the only model equipped with flap shifts. Is the Auris still called Corolla in your country?

I'm also not sure I understand your problem correctly. Do you already encounter the "N" problem as described here in this thread, or is your question meant for in case you would encounter it? I heard that the Corolla Verso 2008 models are now much more reliable, and that's why I ask these questions. I am also not aware of problem with the Auris model.

It is nice to talk through this channel with an Egyptian!

Best regards,

Jan ;)

Dear Jan,

Thank you for your reply.

Well, I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what you call Auris.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

Best Regards

[Mister MMT]

Dear Jan,

Thank you for your reply.

Well, I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what you call Auris.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

Best Regards

Hello,

That's interesting, but your problem is not the "N" problem and not on an MPV like the CV. I suggest you look in the Auris forum to see whether other users had the same problem in the UK or Europe. It could be a mechanic problem with the "fork", which actuates the gear changes. But in fact, only your dealer will be able to find a solution, which must come from the central Toyota office responsible for your area, or T. South Africa.

From what you say, other people in your country, suffer from this problem. In case you find nothing in the Auris Forum using the search function, I suggest you open a new subject there and contact people with te request to report on their cases. Normally, the problem should be taken care of by the T. garantee.

I wish you good luck.

Cheers from Germany,

Jan

[Hossam Kamal]

Dear Jan,

Thank you for your reply.

Well, I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what you call Auris.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

Best Regards

Hello,

That's interesting, but your problem is not the "N" problem and not on an MPV like the CV. I suggest you look in the Auris forum to see whether other users had the same problem in the UK or Europe. It could be a mechanic problem with the "fork", which actuates the gear changes. But in fact, only your dealer will be able to find a solution, which must come from the central Toyota office responsible for your area, or T. South Africa.

From what you say, other people in your country, suffer from this problem. In case you find nothing in the Auris Forum using the search function, I suggest you open a new subject there and contact people with te request to report on their cases. Normally, the problem should be taken care of by the T. garantee.

I wish you good luck.

Cheers from Germany,

Jan

Dear Jan

Thank for your guidence , already I'm open a new subject in Auirs Forum and there is one reply have the same problem

you can see at this link

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82426

Congratulation from Egypt

Hossam

my contacts for personel communication

Email: hn_kamal@yahoo.com

h.kamal@petrojet.com.eg

Cell : +20106033055

[l333cbr]

Dear Jan,

Thank you for your reply.

Well, I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what you call Auris.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

Best Regards

Hello,

That's interesting, but your problem is not the "N" problem and not on an MPV like the CV. I suggest you look in the Auris forum to see whether other users had the same problem in the UK or Europe. It could be a mechanic problem with the "fork", which actuates the gear changes. But in fact, only your dealer will be able to find a solution, which must come from the central Toyota office responsible for your area, or T. South Africa.

From what you say, other people in your country, suffer from this problem. In case you find nothing in the Auris Forum using the search function, I suggest you open a new subject there and contact people with te request to report on their cases. Normally, the problem should be taken care of by the T. garantee.

I wish you good luck.

Cheers from Germany,

Jan

Dear Jan

Thank for your guidence , already I'm open a new subject in Auirs Forum and there is one reply have the same problem

you can see at this link

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82426

Congratulation from Egypt

Hossam

my contacts for personel communication

Email: hn_kamal@yahoo.com

h.kamal@petrojet.com.eg

Cell : +20106033055

Hi All

I have just become an unfortunate owner of a verso with the dreaded mmt gearbox and now classic N problem. :censor:

I find it very frustrating when the car just decides to put itself in neutral with no warning or way out but to turn it off and back on again.

Having bought the car from a used car dealers, i got straight on the phone telling them i rejected the car and wanted a full refund !

They have been in touch with my local toyota garage and by all accounts toyota have agreed to FIX the car under an extended warranty !

The car is booked in for friday so will let you know what happens after that !

The car is an 04 plate having 45,000 miles on the clock. I just hope by now toyota have got their act together and know how to fix it.

By all accounts they are going to fit a new clutch and ecu ( fingers crossed and everything else also )

[hertsnminds]

Having bought the car from a used car dealers, i got straight on the phone telling them i rejected the car and wanted a full refund !

I would also write the garage that sold you the car a letter stating you will accept the offer to repair the car but if it is not repaired to your satisfaction by a certain date (I would give them about 6 months) then you will still be rejecting it and want a full refund. At least this way if you have to get legal in the future there is some evidence.

[Istvan Kope]

Hi Everyone,

I'm from Romania and I own a Toyota Corolla 1.4 D4D MMT 2004. I bought the car last year form Germany and I choose Corolla because it was famous for its reliability. Now I realize that this reliability thing is a hoax. Every car brakes down. I also have this "N" problem, but in my case only occurs ONLY at very low speed(<10km/h) and it recovers after 2-3 minutes. Anyway it is very frustrating for an automatic transmission car to have a problem like this. I choose the automatic version because it should be more comfortable in high traffic, but now is exactly the opposite. The thing with the driving style is a bullsh*t. You don't have a driving style with an automatic car, because is automatic. Anyway I conformed to the suggestions, how should be driven the MMT Corolla, but the result is that is much more difficult to drive the MMT car ,according the the book, than the manual one.

I went to the Toyota dealer and the car computer said something about "clutch overheating". They recommended to change the oil in the gearbox, maybe it'll fix the problem. Imagine how professional was that from a car dealer... I change the oil, but the problem occurred again. Well I also went for the 2nd time to the Toyota dealer with this problem and after one day of diagnostics they reached the conclusion that the whole clutch system has to be replaced. Well there might be nothing unusual for you guys in this, but the real problem is that, our country is centuries behind UK and here is the last option to go to fix your car at the car dealer service, but because Toyota is not a very popular brand in Romania, very few car services can do servicing for it and I have no option, but to go to the Toyota dealer service. These guys can't fix cars and they are very expensive, like this clutch system replacing will cost me nearly 1000Euro. I'm willing to pay this money, because they said that, they guarantee that this will solve my "N" problem, but I'm skeptical.

If they'll solve my problem, we have a happy ending. But guaranteeing something in my country, doesn't mean sh*t. Now here comes my question to you guys:

Is there a fix for this problem or not? I've seen that some of you had this problem fixed, some of you didn't. Some said that the grease change solves the problem, PaJa gives a service bulletin here. All the people here are talking about the same problem or there are slightly different problems?

[R Tang]

Have n't been on site for a long time but is nice to see that not any more owners reporting the N problems. My gear box was very jumpy when creeping up in slow speed, e.g traffic jam. Luckily my dealer rest the ECU and it is now very smooth. This is an half an hours job and cost around 35 GB pounds. So if this happens to you, it is nothing major.

Good luck.

[SzZ]

Dear All,

I have a question related to the MMT "N" problem.

One of my friend bought a used Corolla Verso MMT two month ago. The car is 2004 make, 64000 km, no more warranty. For two month and 4000 km everything was fine. 10 days ago the "N" problem occured. Garage made a software upgrade on the ECU, but a few days later the problem occured again.

Searching the web I came to this forum, and by reading it I discovered that there is a pattern in the frequency of the fault occurances: everything is fine for a while, then several MMT fault during a few weeks, then (mostly after rapair) nothing for a longer period, and frequent faults again. This longer period is mostly 10 month - 1 year, or kilometer run for approximately 1 year.

Since two weeks here in Hungary it is now unusually cold, -12 C. So I wonder, whether it is a connection between low temperature and the "N" fault occurance; more specificly: is my suspicion correct that MMT fails in winter, when outside it is cold?

What is your experience?

THX

Zoltan

[Mister MMT]

So I wonder, whether it is a connection between low temperature and the "N" fault occurance; more specificly: is my suspicion correct that MMT fails in winter, when outside it is cold?

DearZoltan,

this car needs the classical full repair. The car owner has to visit his Toyota Dealer and request it files with Toyota Hungary (Europe) a request for repair taking in charge most of the expenses. This failure is widely known to the dealers, and Toyota is very often willing to consider paying for the repair costs, at least in part. I hope this will also apply to Hungary. It will take some time before a decision will be reached.

Good luck and please, keep us informed.

Jan

[SzZ]

So I wonder, whether it is a connection between low temperature and the "N" fault occurance; more specificly: is my suspicion correct that MMT fails in winter, when outside it is cold?

DearZoltan,

this car needs the classical full repair. The car owner has to visit his Toyota Dealer and request it files with Toyota Hungary (Europe) a request for repair taking in charge most of the expenses. This failure is widely known to the dealers, and Toyota is very often willing to consider paying for the repair costs, at least in part. I hope this will also apply to Hungary. It will take some time before a decision will be reached.

Good luck and please, keep us informed.

Jan

Hi Jan,

the procedure in Your suggestion was followed.

The dealer was absolute correct and helpful, and requested Toyota Hungary for the expenses. For Toyota it took more than two weeks to decide, but finally they cover 60% of the costs of all new parts. Addicionally, the dealer builds them in free of charge.

In spite of this discounts the repair isn't cheap: it costs more than 800 Euros for my friend, plus four weeks without car. We hope the N fault will never occur again in this car.

Sincerely:

Zoltán

[mitsy19]

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

[Mister MMT]

...but finally they cover 60% of the costs of all new parts. Addicionally, the dealer builds them in free of charge.

In spite of this discounts the repair isn't cheap: it costs more than 800 Euros for my friend, plus four weeks without car. We hope the N fault will never occur again in this car.

Dear Zoltan,

that seems like a fare deal to me, although 800 Euro ist still a lot of money. I am glad to hear that Toyota is as serious in your country than in the rest of Europe. I wish your friend many more enjoyable km with his Corolla Verso !

Regards from Germany,

Jan

PS. Thanks to mitsy ti relind us this excellent piece of advise!

[Blueverso]

My Verso developed some jerkiness over the past three months at a low speed and it eventually failed to engaged. Having had work done to the MMt gearbox in 2006, I took it to another Dealer as suggested by another member. After trying to adjust and reset the clutch, the car still fail to make any progress. The Dealership took the box apart and saw parts that should have been replaced under the warranty weren't done! Any way,the cost was going to be £2600. Luckily. Toyota GB has investigated the case and would now ask the original dealer who did the work to pay up for their mistake. I haven't got the car yet but will update you with further information once the work is done.

MMT Gearbox!

blueverso

[boukehj]

My Verso developed some jerkiness over the past three months at a low speed and it eventually failed to engaged. Having had work done to the MMt gearbox in 2006, I took it to another Dealer as suggested by another member. After trying to adjust and reset the clutch, the car still fail to make any progress. The Dealership took the box apart and saw parts that should have been replaced under the warranty weren't done! Any way,the cost was going to be £2600. Luckily. Toyota GB has investigated the case and would now ask the original dealer who did the work to pay up for their mistake. I haven't got the car yet but will update you with further information once the work is done.

MMT Gearbox!

blueverso

I guess you have an early Verso? 2004 or 2005 I suppose? It appears that the MMT-gearboxes bfrom 2006 onwards have no problems.

[The Road]

Would you believe it! We have just received a Product Recall Notice from Toyota relating to the MMT gearbox.

Keep you posted as to how things develop

[The Road]

Would you believe it! We have just received a Product Recall Notice from Toyota relating to the MMT gearbox.

Keep you posted as to how things develop

Sorry my mistake - the letter we received is a SAFETY Recall Notice relating to the MMT Gearbox - blimey!!!!!

[PaJa]

There is a Toyota campaign letter, see http://www.toyota-tech.eu/toms_cabs/EN/9K3E-059.pdf. This company action involves the P0810 error code on NDE120, ZNR11 cars and given VINs. It should be completely free of charge at authorized service center. The campaign started on April 2009 and will finish April 2012. So don't wait if you have a cars with affected VIN.

[The Road]

There is a Toyota campaign letter, see http://www.toyota-tech.eu/toms_cabs/EN/9K3E-059.pdf. This company action involves the P0810 error code on NDE120, ZNR11 cars and given VINs. It should be completely free of charge at authorized service center. The campaign started on April 2009 and will finish April 2012. So don't wait if you have a cars with affected VIN.

If this campaign started in April 2009, I wonder why it took Toyota till end of October to inform me. My car was still under warranty at this time. Unbelieveable!!!

[verso07]

I have experienced many of the same problems mentioned by everyone here.

The MMT gearbox is a liability. I fear it will cause someone harm as you can not depend on when it will shift. Roundabouts are a disaster as it gets stuck in 1st or phantom neutral, and today I had a new experience of the car downshifting from 5th gear to 3rd on a motorway for no apparent reason.

I had the actuator clutch motor recall done two months ago. This was after the car threw itself into neutral and would not engage while progressing at 60 kmh in heavy traffic. I am so sorry to say that the recall has done nothing to improve the operation of the MMT gear box. To tell you the truth the car's performance is continuing to degrade.

I have been told the same thing as many others here that it's not the car's fault, it's the way I am driving it. But we all know that is pure rubbish. This car is unsafe, and a total liability.

I am so sorry I trusted the Toyota name and know this will be the last Toyota I will ever buy. Is anyone organising any type of class action lawsuit?