What Do You All Think Of Our Giant Trucks?

[scionic]

Well, if they're limited to farming and construction, then we had better limit high performance cars to racing circuits and drag strips.  After all, nobody needs that much power and such poor fuel economy on the street in such an impractical vehicle.  I'm sure a Toyota MR2 seems *real* efficient....until you take into account how its worthless it is for anything other than driving fast or driving slow.  It certainly won't carry much of anything.

And then we can all drive around in grey/beige Government Approved Transport Pods.  What can I say.  I find it funny when people who do things like buy fast cars and supercharge them and turbocharge them and other things that do nothing more than make them eat more gas and faster talk about trucks as wasteful (this wasn't aimed at you, Blue, except for the first sentence :) no worries)

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MR2's don't make the roads unsafe for others. If you drive your MR2 behind me and a deer suddenly jumps into the road in front of me and I hit the brakes--- you can stop and handle safely.

An idiot in one of these giant trucks, particularly the mod'ed ones with huge tires CANNOT and he will roll right into and over someone in a normal car.

IMO people have no right to drive a vehicle like this to massage their own egos at the expense of the safety of everyone else. These stupid things are a prime example of one of the things I hate most about my country. Its all about ME and f*ck everyone else. I want MY kids to be safe in my big truck and too bad if your kids get killed when I hit them because I can't handle or brake worth a crap and I drive a 4 ton vehicle.

It's irresponsible, inconsiderate and asinine.

But judging from the poll results, it appears to be human nature. It sounds like you all might have a bunch of these things there too if your roads were a little wider and your fuel was cheaper. More freedom isn't always a good thing. Especially when its freedom to be an a$$hole.

Either that, or Americans are voting in the poll after I asked for non U.S. opinions. No way to know.

At the very least you should be required to take a special driving test and have a special license to drive one of these and be required to show a legitimate need for one of these things.

[Moffmo]

A child hit at 30mph by a big truck has no chance...

a child hit at 30mph by a mr2 has a fair chance

[ricomr2]

They are big and silly, only a lunatic would drive one.

Can i have one please :D

[Demonic Angel]

IMO people have no right to drive a vehicle like this to massage their own egos at the expense of the safety of everyone else. These stupid things are a prime example of one of the things I hate most about my country. Its all about ME and f*ck everyone else. I want MY kids to be safe in my big truck and too bad if your kids get killed when I hit them because I can't handle or brake worth a crap and I drive a 4 ton vehicle.

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Agree with that whole heartedly - its all about keeping up with the Joneses isnt it - they have one, so we'll get a bigger one!

I really cant stand that about society - someone sees something and immediately tries to better it, as if it makes them a more worthy person in life

I feel just as safe in my Yaris as I would in any monster truck - possibly safer.

[Puls]

A child hit at 30mph by a big truck has no chance...

a child hit at 30mph by a mr2 has a fair chance

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HA!!!

If you're so sure of this, why don't we let someone hit you with an Mr2 traveling at 30mph.

Getting hit by a vehicle traveling at 30mph is the equivalent of jumping from a 4th story window...not pretty, eh?

Yank Bastid is wrong...PEOPLE in sportscars CAN make roads unsafe for others...has anyone here *not* seen some asshat traveling way WAY too fast in their modded/high performance car? I know I see it constantly. OMG Lets ban them!!!111 (and the Fast and Furious films need a banning too hee hee)

"An idiot in one of these giant trucks, particularly the mod'ed ones with huge tires CANNOT and he will roll right into and over someone in a normal car."

That I tend to agree with, except modern trucks don't roll automatically as soon as you hit the brakes or turn. Know what the braking distance on a Scion xB is? 200 feet from 70mph. Know what it is on a Chevy Silverado 1500? 207 feet from 70 (both courtesy of C&D) Less than a carlength. And of course a larger vehicle with a high center of gravity is more prone to rolling if you swerve around...this is why car reviewers do emergency lane-change tests. BUT the problem is people...

And in both cases, the problem is not the vehicle, which is a point most of you seem to miss. Sportscars and trucks driven by idiots are the problem. Not just sportscars and trucks. Any vehicle is a death machine when piloted by someone who is grossly incompetent at the wheel and unaware of their vehicle's limits/capabilities. At my job, I drive huge 1-ton V10 pickups and small dumptrucks on a daily basis (I work part time maintenance and construction at my city's water utility)...and you can be DAMN sure that I'm ALWAYS conscious of the vehicle I'm driving...lots of room for braking, not hustling through turns, keeping as watchful an eye as I can, etc.

If everyone who drove any sort of vehicle drove with some common sense and respect for their fellow man, we wouldn't have to have this conversation. You can't blame the vehicles when its the people who make them move. A hot-rodded Civic driven by some 18 year old ***** with no driving skills or a big truck driven by an idiot with a small ***** and no driving skills is only a danger when someone is behind the wheel. We need to change the people, not use the vehicles as scapegoats. Don't get me wrong...I'm not pro or anti any sort of motor vehicle, I'm just of the opinion that the problem starts with the person driving it. Maybe I'm just anti-people

"Its all about ME and f*ck everyone else."

I agree. This is a problem in America. And you've proved yourself a prime example of it in this thread. Congratulations. Another of America's problems is rampant hypocrisy.

[Moffmo]

A child hit at 30mph by a big truck has no chance...

a child hit at 30mph by a mr2 has a fair chance

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HA!!!

If you're so sure of this, why don't we let someone hit you with an Mr2 traveling at 30mph.

Getting hit by a vehicle traveling at 30mph is the equivalent of jumping from a 4th story window...not pretty, eh?

Im not a child :D

Just quoting the newspaper (although i dont tend to believe them). They were saying due to the height of trucks the chil got hit in the head first.

now leave me alone!

EDIT: I meant to say fairer, not fair

[Puls]

No worries :) I'm just saying, its not a good chance of survival for any human to get nailed by a 30mph torpedo that weights a ton+

I once read in a newspaper that getting hit by a low-slung type of car can break people's legs and make them kiss the windsheild I didn't want to walk around outside for a week

[Moffmo]

No worries :)  I'm just saying, its not a good chance of survival for any human to get nailed by a 30mph torpedo that weights a ton+

I once read in a newspaper that getting hit by a low-slung type of car can break people's legs and make them kiss the windsheild    I didn't want to walk around outside for a week 

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well i kinda thought of that after i wrote my post but didnt want to say anything....

lets put it this way, its not good to be hit by any car

[ricomr2]

I once read in a newspaper that getting hit by a low-slung type of car can break people's legs and make them kiss the windsheild    I didn't want to walk around outside for a week 

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I've also heard that and it does make sense....

lets put it this way, its not good to be hit by any car 

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Agreed but most kids under say 10 dont really have any road sense and then

theres drunk folk plus the obvious boy racers who mostly dont give a rats ***** about anything around them....

What can you do??? :(

[scionic]

Alright, Wisconsin.

Here's the deal.

Sure, my car takes 200 ft to stop from 70, but if there is a minivan 150 feet in front of me I am not going to murder a family of five because I chose to drive a 6500 lb truck to commute to work by myself because I'm a hillbilly dumbass. My cars weight is much closer to the average so it isn't a threat to everyone else on the road.

The same goes for sports cars. Sure a fool can drive a 2600 lb sportscar fast, but he's less likely to KILL others than a fool driving a 6500 lb Lincoln Navigator.

That was the point I was trying to make. This wasn't aimed at people like you, who drive big trucks responsibly and for work purposes.

However, even a responsible driver in a big Tahoe or Ram puts others at risk. You can't predict what will happen on the road. If you choose to drive a poor handling (and don't try to tell me a Suburban or a Ram has good accident avoidance handling) heavy vehicle and there is an accident that is not your fault, you are going to plow into people driving *responsible* cars and put them at risk because of YOUR irresponsible choice of cars.

The absurd size and weight of these vehicles makes them an inherent danger to everyone else on the road, no matter HOW good the driver is. THATS the difference, see?

As for your remark about hypocrisy, well. This isn't all about ME. I am thinking of everyone else and myself with my car choice and my opinion in this.

When you choose a 4 ton Excursion that you don't need, you are thinking only of YOURSELF.

That was the point I was trying to make, hopefully it's clearer now.

[Puls]

You do realize that a car traveling at highway speeds can cause HUGE damage, right? It can go through a house with ease. The point comes where the size of what hits a car doesn't matter nearly as much as the safety of the car that gets hit when it comes to occupant safety. If you think you can't kill a family of 5 in your Scion, you're a bit deluded. Your assumptions are amusing and alarming at the same time. *****, even a MOTORCYCLE hitting a car at 80mph will not only damage it severely, but also move it across lanes, and injure its occupants. I've seen it happen.

What about people driving 4-5000 lb. sedans? Those big BMWs, Cadillacs, Benzes, etc. are almost always the big hammer when they hit something...are those owners irresponsible idiots too? A Kia Sedona weighs a bit under 5000, and I bet it gets driven by a single person about as often as the average truck...should those be banned too? Its clearly irresponsible to own these vehicles. The big-volume half-ton pickup trucks are only a few hundred pounds more than our Sedona.

As for trucks immediately rolling/plowing/killing and other guaranteed horrible things when faced with a road hazard, your mentioned Ram gets through a 600' slalom at 58.4mph while our Scion boogies through at 58.7. As for roadholding, the ram pulls on the lower side of .7g, similar to a Malibu. Years of engineering has caught up with the big guys. Sure, they aren't sportscars, but they've made it to the point where they can at least change directions, brake, and hold the road as well as your average cookie-cutter sedan. I also feel that anyone who gets into a car and drives around has to accept a certain risk. They may hit or get hit by something bigger or smaller than they are. My friend in his '98 Neon recently got clipped, spun, and hit by a careless semi driver...should we ban those? After all, they are EVERYWHERE, and having a CDL didn't stop the guy from hitting my friend (who is fine, and has bought a Miata since) One of the 4 vehicles I drive regularly weighs less than 2000lb. and has no safety equipment past belts, but I'm willing to take the risk because I enjoy driving it.

"As for your remark about hypocrisy, well. This isn't all about ME. I am thinking of everyone else and myself with my car choice and my opinion in this."

Through this whole thread, your stance has basically appared to be "MY OPINION IS THE BEST AND IM RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN **** OFF!! I KNOW WHATS BEST FOR MY COUNTRYMEN TO DRIVE AND **** ANYONE ELSE WHO THINKS DIFFERENTLY!! WE SHOULD BAN!" This sort of attitude is what brought that on. Its pretty American of you. People have a choice in what they drive, and there seem to be proposals that they shouldn't have a choice. What next? What other parts of our lives should Big Brother have more control over?

You know something Yank Bastid, I really would like to like you. You're eloquent enough and you actually take the time to spell words right and not talk like a 12 year old on AOL, and most of your posts have been worth reading. And you certainly behave better than other Americans I see at some international boards. But, even though I doubt these are your intentions, I can't help but think that when I read some of your posts, that you seem to have come here to do a bit of semi-trolling. Between your little 'apology' thread, which seems to have since gone away, and this, I can't help but think you're trying to either stir up a little trouble, show yourself as some possible intellectual superior, or maybe you just wanted to show off your hatred of trucks to what you thought would be a friendly audience to that sort of thing....In either case, your refusal to acknowledge anybody else's opinion as having any validity, your not quite but ALMOST COMPLETELY biased poll, and your seeming opinion that anybody who drives what you don't like is automatically an inferior who shouldn't have the right to make a decision makes you a bit hard to swallow. I think the point of a poll should be unbiased collecting of data and opinion, and respecting said opinions. Polls are rarely used to push the poll-giver's opinion.

Oh, and I also have a screen-name, and it isn't Wisconsin. I don't think talking down to me in that sort of manner is going to make me more pleasant. As it is, I think this is one of those topics where both sides have a point, and arguing about it will just make for a long thread full of circles. I will say for the record that I'm not a pro or anti trucks or any sort of vehicle (heck, I ride my bike a lot when I don't need a car) But, I am a fan of people having free choice and rights to make decisions and people being educated about the choices they make.

(I voted for weekend fun, btw, even if I wasn't supposed to Ace choice of car, btw :) I've driven all 3 Scions, and liked all but the tC) Damn...I need to be t to class at 1pm today...I think its time for some Z's.

[scionic]

Yes, anything object moving at high speed is dangerous. I agree.

A 1 lb rock moving at 70 mph can kill you, sure.

But driving a truck you do not need that weighs 2 times as much as the average car puts others at additional risk, does it not?

Very few cars weigh what these trucks do, lets be honest.

Do you think a RAM with 36" mud tires would do the same though the slalom? Because at least 1/2 the trucks around here are raised and sitting on huge tires. Lets run them through the slalom, shall we?

Does the RAM have accident avoidance technology like the stability control my car does?

You can argue that a 2400 lb car will do damage in an accident, and you're right.

My point is that using a 6000+ pound truck as a daily driver because you think it's cool, is selfish. You are burning gasoline irresponsibly. You are blocking other peoples visibility. Most people drive these things so they can intimidate others on the road ande feel safe and superior and that's an arrogant attitude. And, yes a RAM or an Expedition weighs more than the vast majority of cars. Any twisted argument about slalom times or braking distance you care to make will not change that.

When you have a highway full of 2500-4000 lb cars and a 6500 lb car enters the picture, what do you think happens?

See, this is why I asked for a European perspective in this thread (you must have missed that) I already know what most American's think.

Do I think my opinion is right? Yes, that is why it's called an opinion. That doesn't make hypocritical (I think you need to look that word up) It makes me a person with an opinion.

My opinion is these things have no reason to be on public roads. The ENTIRE rest of the world somehow farms, and does construction and hunts and fishes and camps and manages to LIVE without them. Why can't we? They have sensible, purpose-built trucks with fuel thrifty small diesels, why we "need" V10's so we can use more gasoline and make terrorist nations rich.

It's all about excess and that disgusts me, sorry.

It's NOT an opinion, however, that people needlessly driving much heavier vehicles than the average creates more risk for other drivers on the road. And that is true even if a Dodge RAM can do 235 mph through a slalom and stop in 50 ft at 70 mph.

Again, I know what the midwest U.S. thinks. It's pretty obvious they think what people in Arizona think. Golly gee, big trucks are great! Gotta get me one!

That's why I asked U.K. and Europe. Because they don't have these rolling p*nis extensions on their roads.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, but I give you props for a strong argument.

[Puls]

A few points here:

1. Fine, I agree that modded trucks are more dangerous and not really needed. Since I don't see many of those around here, I was basing my opinion on stock trucks.

2. 6500+ lb. trucks like H2s and Escalades don't really sell all that well by comparison to the big trucks seen on the roads most often. The volume-sellers are 5200-ish pickup trucks and even lighter SUVs.

3. My point was not that trucks don't weigh that much. The point was that their road abilities are more than just "roll and die" and their capabilities to avoid accidents are almost as good as a plebian sedan. My 'twisted argument' also states that there are cars and minivans that weigh almost as much as these vehicles. Why aren't you railing on against excessively large minivans and sedans too?

4. Yes, you do have an opinion, I can see that. And I know what hypocritical means. And it is hypocritical of you to say that you think people in trucks don't give a **** about anyone when you clearly don't give a **** about anyone's rights to make their own decisions about what they drive. And yes, you asked what the Europeans thought...and my one little vote does not change things any.

I agree with you that the trucks are for the most part unnecessary, and I'll certainly never buy one, and people don't need them. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at what Americans like to drive...look how cheap our gas is, and what they drove in the 1970s, prior to the small-car takeover of the 1980s. Even construction firms are rarely using them these days, dropping them in favor of hi-boxes and the like. Sprinters are also becoming popular. But, I still feel that people's choices about what they drive shouldn't be interfered with. Call me a Libertarian, I guess.

On another note, I've just been reading articles that SUV and truck sales are down a lot in the past months thanks to the increase in fuel costs. Maybe you'll get your wish :) I was also surprised at how many of our UK friends thought that they were cool Never expected it, really. I think I'm done here.

[~Rach~]

IMO 4x4/SUV should be used for what they were primarily designed for, off road use

A lot of people in the village where my dad lives have 4x4s as their second cars due to the fact of if it snows etc, you cant get out of the village. Thats fair enough

But why the hell do you need one in the middle of a built up area??

Did anyone see the test drive of the Hummer H2 that Clarkson did, where he managed to get stuck when he was driving through a town? They may be all well and good in america where the roads are wide and straight, but over here they are useless

[Puls]

Hehehe...Clarkson's bit about not driving an H2 because your kids will get beat up at school for it always make me chuckle.

The bit about the indestructible HiLux diesel was also fantastic.

I personally want a V6 Nissan Hardbody or an old Toyota, since my current junk-hauler (an old MPV Voyager) is a rusty oil-burning heap and not always up to the task. You should've seen it the time I hauled bricks with it to build a patio behind my parents house

[Roytoner]

Are you Two over there in the U.S. Good Friends??? :P :P

[scionic]

I agree with you that the trucks are for the most part unnecessary, and I'll certainly never buy one, and people don't need them.  I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at what Americans like to drive...look how cheap our gas is, and what they drove in the 1970s, prior to the small-car takeover of the 1980s.  Even construction firms are rarely using them these days, dropping them in favor of hi-boxes and the like.  Sprinters are also becoming popular.  But, I still feel that people's choices about what they drive shouldn't be interfered with.  Call me a Libertarian, I guess.

Sounds like we agree for the most part then! All we disagree on is whether or not they should be regulated. I beleive they should. I think they should be treated as "special equipment" and if you want to drive one, you should be required to demonstrate the need and you should have to take a special extended driving test in one to prove you can handle it. This would weed out the soccer moms who back into people's cars with their Suburbans and what-not because they have no where near the spatial perception needed to pilot a land based aircraft carrier like that. If you have a construction crew to take to an oil field in Alaska, fine, get the Suburban. Soccer moms--- you can have a Sienna, OK? Macho tough guys, you can have a nice midsize 4x4 and take some Viagra to make up the difference you miss out on without your H2.

I would also be upset if someone called me a libertarian. There is a reason that libertarianism is only a theory and exists only inside the walls of the Cato institute instead of being a legitimate form of government. This attitude is why the richest country on earth has no universal healthcare.

Too much regulation is a bad thing, but not enough can be worse as it leads to greed and corruption and gluttony, basically the worst of human nature. This is why we have laws.

[scionic]

Are you Two over there in the U.S. Good Friends???  :P  :P

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I'd buy him a beer, sure!

[Puls]

I'll take a pint :)

Okay, libertarian is a bit too far. But, I think you get the idea. I don't want government dictating some of my lifestyle choices. And I'd gladly pay a lot more tax if it meant state healthcare :)

[Roytoner]

Are you Two over there in the U.S. Good Friends???  :P  :P

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I'd buy him a beer, sure!

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At the end of the day it's a case of each to their own, If I could have one I would.

I have one of your's (Jeep Cherokee) Which I love driving On the front I have a Bull Bar fitted, ALOT of people don't like it, BUT AGAIN IT'S MY CHOICE to have it. Glad to hear you would buy him a beer

[Roytoner]

I'll take a pint :)

Okay, libertarian is a bit too far.  But, I think you get the idea.  I don't want government dictating some of my lifestyle choices.  And I'd gladly pay a lot more tax if it meant state healthcare :)

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It's not working over here.. :ffs: :censor:

[scionic]

I'll take a pint :)

Okay, libertarian is a bit too far.  But, I think you get the idea.  I don't want government dictating some of my lifestyle choices.  And I'd gladly pay a lot more tax if it meant state healthcare :)

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It's not working over here.. :ffs: :censor:

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LOL.. I hear ya. But better to wait a few months for that operation than to die without it because your leaders would rather give a tax break to the wealthiest members of your society.

I guess I'm getting a bit off topic now though....

[stevetubbyturbo]

well ive got a Hilux Surf and its massive and i dont have a huge family i dont have kids and its my every day vehicle i use for to and from work, going to the shops and taking my dogs out but i do use it for off roading which is one of my hobbies.

I seen all opinions on here with people saying 4x4s are not safe on the roads as for kids jumping out and getting hit by a 4x4 probably would'nt surviive a 30 mph impact and this may be true but if you observe the road you are driving on correctly you should be able to spot potential hazards.

What im basicly saying the car isnt dangerous its the person behind the wheel who makes the car dangerous by driving stupidly and most accidents are due to driver error.

Just my 2pence worth

[scionic]

LOL

Hilux Surf is NOT massive by our standards. It's barely mid-sized!

I have no problem at all with Hilux Surfs (that's a 4Runner to us)

They are totally reasonable and sensibly sized really, and just great rigs!

What's with 'tubby'? Is that a nickname for the MR over there?

[stevetubbyturbo]

OK not massive by Yank standards agrees there buy there big over here remember were only a little country if we had one of your 4x4 vehicles over here you would need a parking space the size of a small village to park it :P