Celica Vvti

[mack36]

Hello,

Can anybody tell me what the difference is between the engine in the 140 Celica VVti and the engine in the 190 ?

Is it something easily changed such as ECU chip or is there something more involved.

Any info would be great...... cheers :D

[GT4 BOOSTER]

the 190 is vvtLi , L = lift = more hp.possibly cylinder head is different also ?????????

[mikeb]

Everything.

They are two different engines. If you want a 190, you need to buy a 190, it's not possible to upgrade a 140.

[mack36]

Ok thanks for the info guys, off to the shops for a 190 :D

[Cubic Incubi]

140 Celica VVTI

Performance and Economy

16 Valve DOHC

6 speed manual

1794 cc

140 bhp 6400 rpm

0 - 62 = 8.7 sec

Max speed 127 mph 205 km/h

Max torque 172 nm at 4200 rpm

27.4 mpg urban

45.6 mpg extra urban

36.7 mpg combined

CO2 Emissions 185

55 Litre tank

190 Celica VVTL-I

Performance and Economy

16 Valve DOHC

6 speed manual

1796 cc

189 bhp 7800 rpm

0 - 62 = 7.4 sec

Max speed 140 mph 225 km/h

Max torque 180 nm at 6800 rpm

24.6 mpg urban

42.8 mpg extra urban

33.6 mpg combined

CO2 Emissions 200

55 Litre tank

HOW DOES LIFT WORK???

Toyota's Variable Valve Timing and Lift (with intelligence)

The VVT-i portion of the system continuously varies intake valve timing throughout the rev range by hydraulically rotating the camshaft relative to its drive gear. Note that VVT (without the "i") did not do this continuously. The VVL portion of the system is similar to Honda's VTEC system, incorporating two distinct cam profiles. However, the actual mechanism is quite different. Both cam lobes operate a single wide rocker arm that acts on both intake or both exhaust valves. A needle-bearing roller on the arm follows the low-rpm, short-duration, low-lift lobe, forcing both valves to open and close on that profile. The roller design and roller bearings on the rocker arm pivot help to minimize valvetrain friction. The high-rpm, higher-duration, longer-lift lobe rubs on a hardened steel slipper follower mounted to the rocker arm with a spring. Even though the high-rpm lobe is pushing down further than the low-rpm lobe, the spring absorbs the extra movement. At 6000rpm, the ECU sends a signal to an oil control valve at the end of the camshaft that puts oil pressure behind a lock pin in the rocker arm, sliding the pin under the spring-loaded slipper follower, locking it to the rocker arm and forcing the arm to follow the high-rpm cam profile.

:bookworm:

[Chyownster]

damn those Japaneese engineers, clever people!

[scionic]

190 has a head co-engineered with Yamaha, I believe. It is a different motor, I don't beleive there is any way to just swap the head. Even if there were, you'd need the ECU/VVTL-i controller as well and that would get expensive.

However, TRD does make a supercharger for the 1ZZ-FE (140) that brings it up to 166 bhp and raises the low end torque so much that it actually winds up being nearly a full second QUICKER to 60 than the 190 and it has gobs more useable power in the sweet spot on the tach instead of all at the top like the 190.

After seeing the dyno charts/powerband, I would take a TRD supercharged 1ZZ-FE over a N/A 2ZZ-GE without question.

Cars that reach their peak torque at 6000 rpm or whatever, just don't excite me. It doesn't feel much like thrust when you have the beat the crap out of it to get at the power.

[gordypix]

Unless you are used to driving fast cars then the 190 is a very nimble and quick car. Granted that you have to rev high to get the extra gain and that is not always a practical thing to do on certain road conditions but overall it is a fantastic driving experience.

For the money it would cost to supercharge a 140 - GET a 190 instead. Unless you have money to burn for that extra second.

[Spuffington]

Unless you are used to driving fast cars then the 190 is a very nimble and quick car. Granted that you have to rev high to get the extra gain and that is not always a practical thing to do on certain road conditions but overall it is a fantastic driving experience.

For the money it would cost to supercharge a 140 - GET a 190 instead.   Unless you have money to burn for that extra second.

←

I totally agree with Gordypix - the 190 is very driveable and despite reports a lack of low-down torque, it actually still pulls very well in most gears (especially if you use 97 RON petrol!). On top of that - for occassional use the Lift is a fantastic smile making extra.......also blowing away most other cars when they start running out of oooommpph! :D I wouldn't change it for the world!!

[gordypix]

Ah, the old 97RON Optimax trick....I use it all the time now - A FULL CONVERT to it's scheme of petrol tank domination all over the world.. :D

[Spuffington]

Funny - it never used to make a blind bit of difference to my 2000 Fiesta Zetec-S (105bhp), but with the T-Sport it makes an amazing difference.........to the point, like you, that I will happily pay the 5p or so premium over 95 RON.

I guess it just comes down to the VVTL-i engine having closer tolerances and being generally more sophisticated???

[scionic]

It's pretty simple.

The 2ZZ-GE is designed to run on premium fuel. Without premium fuel the ECU will !Removed! ignition timing and you will lose horsepower.

Your Fiesta, like most cars, is designed to use regular fuel and like ALL cars designed to use regular fuel it CANNOT benefit from higher octane.

ECU's will !Removed! timing for insufficient octane, they will NOT advance timing for "extra" octane beyond what they are designed for.

I understand the points made about the 2ZZ-GE. A point not mentioned too, is that they will get better fuel economy than a supercharged 1ZZ-FE would with that extra drag of spooling up the S/C every where you go.

For the record, the TRD supercharger is $1900 U.S. (about 1000 pounds UK) but that doesn't include installation. Given the price difference between the XR and XRS models it could be cost effective, especially if you have the mechanical skill required to install it yourself or know someone who does. Of course, you'd still miss out on the 6 speed transmission and some other optional equipment though. I can see why some people wouldn't opt for it, but I maintain that it is a viable option. The truth is the XRS doesn't "feel" any faster than the XR in everyday driving, but opening up the higher end of the tach is a special thrill.

It really depends on what you prefer. I've always been really keen on forced induction and I've always felt VTEC/VVTL-i etc. gains are overrated since you don't realize the extra power unless you really press the engine close to it's limit. Not wrong or right, just a matter of preference