4age Vs Gtr Turbo

[siu16]

Hi all, i have a question for anyone whos had a 4age 20v. Recently me and me mate have been comparing are stage of mods we plan to do this summer. His got a Mazda 323F and is planning a engine swap to a 323 1.8 GTR turbo unit, this pushes out about 220BHP+ not too sure of actual figures. The Mazda forum club members are proud of this swap and is quite common now. They will be at this summers JAE aswel so anyone curious can check this out for themselves. I have had my heart set on the 4AGE 20v silver top engine for my corolla E11, i think it pushes out about 160BHP stock! Wel we had a bit of a debate on whether my car will be able to beat his, He says i am wasting my time and i wont be able to keep up, and to be honest i have never been into power but more on handling! So i want to know if anyone has modded their 4AGE to over 200BHP?

[siu16]

]

[GiJoe90]

Hi all, i have a question for anyone whos had a 4age 20v. Recently me and me mate have been comparing are stage of mods we plan to do this summer. His got a Mazda 323F and is planning a engine swap to a 323 1.8 GTR turbo unit, this pushes out about 220BHP+ not too sure of actual figures. The Mazda forum club members are proud of this swap and is quite common now. They will be at this summers JAE aswel so anyone curious can check this out for themselves. I have had my heart set on the 4AGE 20v silver top engine for my corolla E11, i think it pushes out about 160BHP stock! Wel we had a bit of a debate on whether my car will be able to beat his, and to be honest i have never been into power but more on handling! So i want to know if anyone has modded their 4AGE to over 200BHP?

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You'd be better of getting the 4AGZE as any mods to the 20v will be top end stuff and you'll be constantly reving the trollocks off it to keep up. You can easily get to the 190-200bhp mark with the supercharged engine.

Joe

[siu16]

Hi all, i have a question for anyone whos had a 4age 20v. Recently me and me mate have been comparing are stage of mods we plan to do this summer. His got a Mazda 323F and is planning a engine swap to a 323 1.8 GTR turbo unit, this pushes out about 220BHP+ not too sure of actual figures. The Mazda forum club members are proud of this swap and is quite common now. They will be at this summers JAE aswel so anyone curious can check this out for themselves. I have had my heart set on the 4AGE 20v silver top engine for my corolla E11, i think it pushes out about 160BHP stock! Wel we had a bit of a debate on whether my car will be able to beat his, and to be honest i have never been into power but more on handling! So i want to know if anyone has modded their 4AGE to over 200BHP?

←

You'd be better of getting the 4AGZE as any mods to the 20v will be top end stuff and you'll be constantly reving the trollocks off it to keep up. You can easily get to the 190-200bhp mark with the supercharged engine.

Joe

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Hey Joe, quick reply! I did think of the 4AGZE, its a bit rare than the 4AGE, Do you know the actual figures of the standard supercharger engine?

[GiJoe90]

Standard engine should be good for 165bhp I believe.

Corolla

Have a look on there to see what's required. It's AE111's website, he's a member on here. Also Knowlson Andy's rolla (Think he has around 190bhp) has this engine in his rolla but has the top mounted supercharger as God intended it

Joe

[Gti-Racing]

Im almost CERTAIN the "poor mans subaru" (mazda 323 turbo) engines have 210bhp.

To be quite honest, i think Toyota HP is better then Mazda HP

EG: Mazda 1.8L v6 can only do around 125 - 130mph TOPS and 0-60 around 8.0secs.

Toyota Corolla gti is only 1.6L 16V and does 7.5secs 0-60 and a top end of 135mph.

Serious if you get a 4agze and the oversize pulley (210.00+ VAT) your looking at 165 + around 25hp and if you add a Good Exhaust and induction kit with cold air location or cold air pipe, your easily looking around 200hp, and youd DESTROY him!!!

Theres loads of them Mazda 323's that race in digbeth on a saturday night, and its nothing to write home about, my mates CRX SIR VTEC was only just edged by maybe a cars length over half a mile (complete standard 160hp).

[ae111sr]

Serious if you get a 4agze and the oversize pulley (210.00+ VAT) your looking at 165 + around 25hp and if you add a Good Exhaust and induction kit with cold air location or cold air pipe, your easily looking around 200hp, and youd DESTROY him!!!

I think that you might have been reading too many fantasy websites to be able to say that. I've been trying to get 200bhp from my gze for nearly two years and I haven't done it yet. with the fensport pulley, front mount intercooler, Apexi Power Flow filter, 2.25" custom exhaust my engine made a proven 165bhp. Adding the Dastek Unichip took it to a proven 187bhp. Making 200bhp is not as easy as you might think - but I haven't given up yet.

The 20v 4a-ge supposedly makes 165bhp in stock form - the guy who did my engine transplant had one in his ae111 but was very disappointed with it so he took it out and replaced it with a 2 litre turbo 3s-gte. Unfortunately that transplant is a major engineering job and very costly - so costly that the only one he has ever done was his own. There is an HKS turbo kit for the 20v BUT that alone costs over £6,000 - yes that is the right amount of noughts!!!!!

[knowlson]

I think that you might have been reading too many fantasy websites to be able to say that. 

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<_< <_< I agree.......

[siu16]

<_< humm.....yes i also agree that 200bhp is hard to reach with a 20v 4AGE, especially if you want to stick with the NA not turbo. I dont want to jump to turbos as that may be too much to do, e.g. intercoolers, waste gates, boost controller etc. The 4AGze is a cool engine, it would be great to drive both to see the direct difference between to two.

Corolla_Gti-r, i do also agree with the horsepower of the mazda's vs toyota's, I drove a MX3 1.8 (160 BHP i think) for a week, and it had a very lazy engine, didnt have the punch of a toyota. But i wouldnt say they are slow either, I was stuggling to keep up with my mates 1997 323 1.8 with my mk1 MR2 on the A13!

ae111sr, HKS turbo kit is really expensive! i think a greddy turbo kit may be cheaper, in the region of the £1000 mark. For £6k you could probably buy a Tom's 4AGE engine! By the way checked out your site, its really good, them guys at fensport did a good job on your motor!

[TOYMOTA]

Hey Joe, quick reply! I did think of the 4AGZE, its a bit rare than the 4AGE, Do you know the actual figures of the standard supercharger engine?

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The standard 4AGZE is 165bhp as stated earlier, but with an oversized pully it'll pump out 195bhp straight away (they cost £100ish). Then with exhaust, chip cams, etc you'll easily get 230-250bhp. The 4AGZE isn't hard to source either.

If you are going to go for the 4AGE then heres how to get 200bhp http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm#115hp ,at a price though, so it would probably work out cheaper to get the 4AGZE!

[ae111sr]

The standard 4AGZE is 165bhp as stated earlier, but with an oversized pully it'll pump out 195bhp straight away (they cost £100ish). Then with exhaust, chip cams, etc you'll easily get 230-250bhp. The 4AGZE isn't hard to source either.

You obviously didn't read what I posted above

[Gti-Racing]

Thank you very much AE111 SR for your "subtle" wording, im not even going to bother stooping, i despise people who have NO MANNERS and you RANK quite highly, so dont comment on anything i post. If i have said something which is not true, then you can correct me, but coming out with smart Comments (FANTASY BOOKS) its not needed, its called MANNERS, you should try some!!

AND now i know, just that i thought fensport were a trustable site with power ratings and so on, as that is what they claim (165 4agze + 25-30hp pulley) but seems i was wrong.

Did that mazda have anything done to it, cus i find it hard to believe an MR2 just about keeping up with a 1.8 323 (not that i dont believe it)

[siu16]

Did that mazda have anything done to it, cus i find it hard to believe an MR2 just about keeping up with a 1.8 323 (not that i dont believe it)

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Hey gti-r, Wel the 323 wasnt standard but it wasn't heavely modded either, it had a hks filter, magnecor plugleads, custom backbox, 30mm lowered suspension, & a eco tech valve. I have driven his car and fought my MR2 was much more responsive but on a straight the 323 just edges past me.

[ae111sr]

Hey Joe, quick reply! I did think of the 4AGZE, its a bit rare than the 4AGE, Do you know the actual figures of the standard supercharger engine?

←

The standard 4AGZE is 165bhp as stated earlier, but with an oversized pully it'll pump out 195bhp straight away (they cost £100ish). Then with exhaust, chip cams, etc you'll easily get 230-250bhp. The 4AGZE isn't hard to source either.

If you are going to go for the 4AGE then heres how to get 200bhp http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm#115hp ,at a price though, so it would probably work out cheaper to get the 4AGZE!

←

Sorry if I upset you mate - not my intention. I speak from personnal experience - I also belived what others had said and was very disppointed with the results - just trying to give you the benefit of my experience so that others don't go makeing the same mistakes.

[Gti-Racing]

Well i dont know what else it could be cus my mate has got a 323 1.8 on an R reg, and i assumed it wasnt the slightest bit fast as hes a Goodie goodie and not into that sort of thing, well hey, i shouldnt underestimate. This think your mates done some VERY sensible mods, nothing too major, i mean when you get into changing Exhaust and you get the wrong bore by even 2-3mm ( as ive been told on the forum) then your DONE!! And my last car corolla was WAAAY faster then my current and that just had back box and air filter.

What have you got done to your car sui?? cus maybe his isnt fast but yours is just SLOW hehehehe :D :D , nah so what have you changed???

[siu16]

hey gti-r, Does your friend race his 1.8? my mates one is on a P plate dont know if you know the shape im talkin about, its a 5-door coupe! I think from a stand still my car takes off to 60 quicker but his car over-takes me after that. I also know about the diameter of the exhaust pipes are important as if the pipe diameter is too big the exhaust gases will not travel as fast and may even swirl inside! Pipe craft in Basildon are the ones that told me this they are quite cool people, would recommend. I havn't done that much too my car, mainly keeping it running smoothly. I have a apexi filter, magnicor plug leads, NGK copper core plugs & 5zigen backbox from an MX5 (same pipe diameter). Was also running on the 2004 MR2 roadster wheels, but didnt like the handling as the wheels at the rear were wider than the fronts, running on lightweight 14ins and the handling is alot better. Also has any used ZX1? can be bought from Halfords (about £18.00), this cleans out the inside of the engine and after using it a few times the response is quicker and it is not so sluggish on cold running anymore. Would Recommend!

[TOYMOTA]

The standard 4AGZE is 165bhp as stated earlier, but with an oversized pully it'll pump out 195bhp straight away (they cost £100ish). Then with exhaust, chip cams, etc you'll easily get 230-250bhp. The 4AGZE isn't hard to source either.

You obviously didn't read what I posted above

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No I didn't

If you get the right high lift cams for it then i can almost guarentee you'll pump out over 200bhp http://www.pipercams.co.uk/NewPiperWeb/red...rCamFrames.html

You'll have to get it rolling roaded though!!

[ae111sr]

Well here's my last rolling road printout

The lower power figure of 169 bhp was with all the mods listed in my TOC garage except the Unichip. The higher figure of 187bhp is after the Unichip was fitted. With the DLI /MAP version of this engine the Unichip will only control the fuelling - the ignition timing cannt be controlled. And I'm lucky to get that figure because the 4a-gze engines have a problem with the ECU retarding the ignition timing at around 5,000 - 5,500 rpm when on wide open throttle - this can happen with stock engines and modified ones. I say I'm lucky because the timing wasn't retarded much when it was tested. I've been taking part in discussions on the MR2 FAQ forum in USA where many people have the same problem. There have been lots of trial and error methods to try to solve the problem but the concensus appears to be that the only fix will be to use an aftermarket ECU.

I've thought about changing cams but there are problems here too. With a forced induction engine you need to make sure that the valve overlap is not great - otherwise the boost you have been trying to make just blows straight through the cylinder. Until I get a firm recommendation as to which cams will work, from someone who has sucessfully done the change, then my hard earned cash stays in my pocket.

[Gti-Racing]

SUI - No, he doesnt race at all, and i know which shape your talking bout, his is a 1.8 5 door aswell. But your car should be Slightly faster then standard. Hey 1 thing, when you service your car what do you do?? and when was the last time you changed your fuel filter?? cus that makes a BIG difference.

cus i service my car myself and my last corolla was at 123mph top speed but with around 2 services went to 133mph. The service costs me around 80.00, Its VERY detailed and Well worth it.

I engine flush it (thins the oil and BURNS the sludge off the sides of engine bay)

Put on a regular oil filter

mobil1 0-40w (thinnest oil meaning internals can run more easily. Eg when your internals are trying to move about and you got THICK sludgy oil in there, its going to restrict the movement slightly)

add hydralic valve cleaner (cleans valves and other engine internals)

oil treatment (nutrients for oil meaning it retains its peak for longer)

Fuel injector cleaner (cleans fuel injectors so they spray better, which gives very good fuel economy)

But after this thorough service my car runs SWEET. But back to what i asked earlier

how do you service your car & when was the last time you changed your fuel filter??

[Unity Jon]

boys boys....

Torque wins races, BHP sells cars......

[siu16]

GTi-r I think i serviced my car about 2 months ago, It did run a little smoother. I changed oil filter, spark plugs, plug leads, and also flushed out the engine. I did noticed a change in driving as it would not be so sluggish. I was running mineral oil after the flush, and slowly built it up to synthetic is this the correct way? When you add the cleaning liquids, do you add them straight after you service or some other time? I want to carry on modding my car but find more problems so have to prospone, trying to fix a rusty patch in the rear quarter now

I do agree with you unity, i think that was the main difference betwen my Mr2 and my mates 323F was the torque, mine gives out alot more than the 323F, but the 323 is like a merc, no torque but good straight line speed. Maybe the gears were set differently than the MR2's.

[Gti-Racing]

Hey sui i got the same problem, i got a dent in my rear quarter and im delaying that too :D :D ( id rather spend the money making it move quicker then making it look good.

Im quite surprised that you flush it, because as you probably know that is VERY risky (depends how much confidence you have in your engine) as if there are any holes at all, most likely they are blocked with sludge (oil and dust Mixture) then the flush BURNS them out and your holes are exposed and engine leaks oil.

You should try STP oil treatment (2.50ish) and Wynns Hydralic Valve cleaner (5.00ish) and DEFINATLY Wynns fuel injector cleaner (5.00ish)

I pour in 2litres of oil then add the valve cleaner and oil treatment and then the rest of the oil, just so it mixes up straight away.

I take it you havent changed your Fuel Filter???hehehe :D You REALLY wana get that changed, its a little expensive (around 15.00 for filter and around 25.00 for fitting) but its WELL worth it cus your fuel could be a bit clogged up.

And with the merc theory i agree TOTALLY, but i still refuse to accept a Mazda 1.8 can beat an MR2, no chance!!!hehehe :D :D

Unity - Your DEFINATLY right, Torque is the MAIN thing, I see SOO many people modding cars up (including myself) but not looking at basics, a corolla gti has 129bhp, BUT thats

[Gti-Racing]

Unity - Your DEFINATLY right, Torque is the MAIN thing, I see SOO many people modding cars up (including myself until recently) but not looking at basics, a corolla gti has 129bhp, BUT thats produced at the engine and not at the wheels, a corolla gti has around 95hp at the wheels and main things are to get that potential power rather then going for a higher number which is a lot harder to get.

Eg a lightweight flywheel, lightweight underdrive crank pulleys will give you loads of torque and help you to dig into some of that 129hp you have sitting there.

also lighter then standard alloys will certainly help.

Thats how i wanted to beat my mates CRX sir vtec, just by getting the rest of my 129hp but to the wheels

[siu16]

humm come to think of it i dont think i have changed the fuel filter. i have wanted to but just never got around to it. When i did flush my engine, it was so black and my mechanic showed me the metal deposits when he filtered the oil. I may need to get a metal sump plug, cant imagine what it would be like feeding my engine that stuff! i never knew that flushing an engine would be dangerous, my mechanic just recommened i do it, so i did. i just finished fixin and spraying the underside of the rear quarter and it actuall looks alittle off colour may need to take the can back to Halfords as its suposed to be toyota super white 2, but its come out a little on the beige side! I may try some of those products you recommened GTI-R, i have seen them in Halfords.

[Gti-Racing]

Sprayed it and looking funny , cant believe you undertook the job, lolz

But watch the difference when you change your fuel filter, you should notice it. When i got my car, the oil was black as yours (black as you get) but when i checked my oil 1 week l8r due to someone hitting me in the back and all my oil falling out, the oil was still see through. cus at first youve just done the oil change and you check the dip stick and its BLACK :( , wounder, especially when mobil1 costs like 35.00!!! but seriously try those things (Wynns fuel injector cleaner, Wynns Hydralic valve cleaner and Stp oil treatment) and you should get better fuel economy and a more smooth ride (obviously it snot going to sound like a Merc but itll be smooth and run better)

When your getting fuel filter changed, its SOO difficult, the mechanic had to bend his arm sideways and all sorts i felt sorry for him, but its easier if you remove the air box if you still have it, if you have performance kit, itl be a walk in the park.