Tuning Me 4efe Starlet

[scutch0]

cheers buddy!

Rich.

[riko666]

meh, i understand what you're getting at geo but i mean there's only so far a 4efe can go before it needs to be reinforced doesnt it? and under the same conditions a 4efte can get to higher boost figures. i mean ok, i know the ct9 is pretty " poo ", especially when you try going higher than 12 - 15psi....but likewise you could get a td04 turbo on that and it could safely use a higher boost than an equivalent 4efe...and as such, after the higher initial cost of getting the 4efte over getting 4efe + turbo...you can go a lot further before needing to spend money to start running high boost and making the necessary alterations to run at those high boost levels

i mean, ive never heard of a 4efe let go...mainly cause ive heard of very few that have been turbo'd, and ive only heard of that " cyprus " guy's 4efte let go...i know theyre strong motors, just look at brownster! but i mean, there's just so far that an n/a economy engine can go, whereas a turbo'd version of that engine is bound to go just that bit further...i mean i know you're saying theyre reliable blocks but fact of the matter is that the 4efte has "improvements" to it to help with the fact that it is boosted. btw, im interested, what turbokits are you talking about that come with reprogrammable ecu et al?

yeah, im pretty aware of the boosted 5efe's, its even popular to use 5efe blocks for boosted 4efte applications ive heard as well? and also, would you agree or disagree that a 5efhe is a better long term proposition for boosting than upping the boost on a 4efte?

im thinking of getting another 2 paseo's later on....so ill have a 4efte, a 5efte and a 5efhte 8)

[geocool69]

meh, i understand what you're getting at geo but i mean there's only so far a 4efe can go before it needs to be reinforced doesnt it?

yes. but this is just the same as an fte if you think about it.

ok if you had a 4efte. at what point would you start upgreading the pistons??

there it is a stigma saying that the 4efe and 5efe are week engines as they should take the same abuse as an fte properly tuned.

there are a few tercels running 250whp on stock fe internals that are testiment to this.

incidently 220bhp whould be as far as i would want to go before upgreading pistons on both the fte and the fe for proper boosting.

would you agree or disagree that a 5efhe is a better long term proposition for boosting than upping the boost on a 4efte?

depends on what your after.

if you after outright power then ye because of the extra displacement.

but if your already have an fte then its alot easier to just up the boost

[riko666]

you make a compelling arguement in that ppl run on stock internals and so on, but i doubt anyone in their right mind will keep on going till it "pops" just to find out the maximum you can run it at. i dunno, i think ill just get another 'seo down the line so i can do a 5efhte cause I want to see what both a 4efte and 5efhte can do.

i mean, when i get the 4efte, id probably upgrade the pistons as one of the first things i do just to ensure itll be safe for when i up the boost. im thinking of replacing the ct9 with a gt25 or any other smallish ball bearing turbo as im not looking for anything massive...i mean its been long stipulated that the most " sensible " power you can put in a fwd car is 250hp without completely destroying handling and driveability....and im all about the handling and driving experience.

btw, the turbo kit for the 4efe you mentioned, who / where's it from and can you adapt it to the 4efte? and also do you know of any such kits for the 5efhe (also, what intercooling routes are there?) ?

[geocool69]

all im saying that a 4efe will be safe for 220bhp(which is incidently the real maximum for not upsetting handling balannce) if tuned properly.

any further then that then opt for forged pistons then the skys the limit in both cases.

its dales turbo kit aka 10secrx7

he can supply the kit to fit any e series engine. at bradedlines.com

[riko666]

yeah, 220hp was the best figure for handling, 250hp is like the absolute limit before it starts going to pot...itsa shame alfa romeo had to go so high on the 147 and 156gta....such pretty cars :(

lol, cheers for the link mate, imma gonna let my fingers recover now :P

[riko666]

just a question on the braided line's kit...whats done for the intercooler? and you know on the pic of the starlet kits, whats that metal box with all the coolant tubes and what not coming out of it, behind the Battery, where the airbox is supposed to be?

[geocool69]

thats a water cooler kit to replace the intercooler.

a much more efficeient desing of an intercooler wherei is plummed into the readiator and uses a water pump.

it also keeps inlet temeratures at a constant temperature.

wheres with an intercooler to work properly you need to be on the moove

[Starlet_SR_MAN14C]

you cant say if an engine is better than another on basis of power. depends on preferences really. i havent driven either engines but i mean for example, if you prefer revvy engines that require you to drive vigorously to get any performance out if it then the n/a 5efhe is your choice, if on the other hand you prefer the " sea of mid range power " and the masses of torque, you get in a turbo, go for the 4efte. and remember, the 5efhe has 108hp whereas the the 4efte has 133-135hp

and no, i doubt the exhausts would be useful on both. on an n/a car you usually have to keep the exhaust diameter to not too big over stock as you need back pressure, whereas in turbo'd cars you can do with going slightly bigger as the increased speed and volume of the exhaust gases negates the need for backpressure (that and it can damage the turbo if there's too much, damaging the bearings due to returning air).

for an n/a car, there is no need to go over 2.25" piping all the way through (2.0" is probably more suitable.....and do NOT stick one of those chavvy "straight through " 5" back boxes...theyre ridiculous)....whereas in a turbo you can go upto 2.5" - 3.0" all the way through...

←

Cheers for the info this topic is goin well loads of info :D

yeh for the exhaust if i chage it on the 4efe i have i intend to go for 2 inch piping or 2.25 and a 3inch backbox dont want anything too big that looks !Removed! or scrapes of the ground lolll!

[Starlet_SR_MAN14C]

but you'd be better with a 4efte as its already suited for boosting whereas with a 4efe (if intending to run higher boost) you'll need to get new pistons, conrods etc....

...

i totaly disagree with what your saying reko bud.

have you ever heard of a turbo 4efe letting go?

nither have i

dale form bradedlines is only using one of his tdo4 turbo kits(cheep as chips) on a stock 4efe and its producing 180bhp at the flywheel.. which is more than what a stock ct9 would produce.

his aim is to disprove this theory that the normal 4efe engine is week.

he is aiming for 220whp which is totaly achieveable. guys in the u.s have turboed the 5efe with decent figures aswell

it wouldnt make sense to make a 4efe turbo-worthy then turbo it as you could drop in the 4efte for less money in the long run...

and i think thats poopoo friend

these turbo kits are alot cheaper baught and installed then sorcing a 4efte plus fitting.

plus they already come with a reprogramable ecu and everything else needed to set a 4efe up with a fine tune.

so for the price of a 4efte conversion you only have 135bhp.......... .......then spend that again to get decent figures mainly becasue you have jack sh*t and the ct9 has a bad asma problem.

wheres start with a 4efe turbo kit...... ......produce more power straight away... then the only thing holding you back from producing mega scooby slaying bhp are some forged pistons.

you might be guessing what im going for with my fhe now

←

hmmm interesting

[riko666]

mate, id just go for a nice 2.5" muffler on the back, so that you dont get the " farty " boyracery sound you get from those " straight through cans ".....would give you a nice low down growl kinda sound...

[nrgizerbunny]

all im saying that a 4efe will be safe for 220bhp(which is incidently the real maximum for not upsetting handling balannce) if tuned properly.

any further then that then opt for forged pistons then the skys the limit in both cases.

←

I have to disagree with you there :( , its safe but for how long - 10-30k. After that you WILL exceed the creep stress within some part of the engine and it WILL break.

If I wanted to max out a 4efe i would make sure the horsepower was reliable. if you bump the power up but don't strengthen the engine then its gonna break.

[geocool69]

and how much longer do you think a 4efte would last under the same loads and stress???

[riko666]

another 10mi :P

[geocool69]

lol :D

[nrgizerbunny]

A lot longer. :D

running a normal starlet at 225bhp is over 3 times its stock power. running a turbo at 225bhp is about 1.6 times the power.

it may not be a linear relationship but if you say both cars in stock condition do 100k over an entire lifetime. You'd probably get failures in the starlet at around 33k, in the turbo around 62k. This is purely hypothetical and is designed to illustrate the point.

[riko666]

lol, yeah.

and along the point you said about stress and creep and all that, if i read through my material physics notes i could fully back it up

[Toby]

!Removed! hell people!!!!!!!!

Right, not gonna mention anything about the above topics!!

Basically I transplanted a ep82 4efte into my SR. If you have a ep91 and you want to do this then you will need at least:

Engine 4efte (either from GT or GLANZA)

ECU

Gearbox (again up to you, there is a big difference in load)

I also bought driveshafts to be on the safeside but its up to you. If you manage to obtain a Glanza engine (very rare, rarer than a GT??!!) then the ecu's are relatively plug and play where as the the GT is slightly different and will require more effort.

Both looms will have to be spliced and lengthened as the gromets are in different places.

If you want more info go to www.toyotaownersclub.com.

there is member called syawal, he can get and import you a GT/Glanza front cut, basically half a car. He is relatively cheap but import charges are !Removed!!!

There are a few people to ask, search the site and you will find your answers.

Company wise I know of Fensport (who i used) and John Barnes Motorsport. they may be others but these two can set you in the right direction. The kit looks pricey on the Fensport site but don't forget its a quote for a ep82 n/a conversion. You don't need some of the parts as the ep91 already has them. You basically need what i described before. Im not sure about John Barnes Motorsport but check there sight out. For me it was the safest option, they are a reputable company and I personally thought it was worth spending the extra.

The swap is relatively simple but the loom will require a brain or two. Personally i didn't even attempt it as im useless with electrics! If anyone needs help I know some young guy so give me a shout.

As far as a Turbo kit for the 4efe, look again at toyotaownersclub.com, go too forums, then select wickedep (bellow classifieds), look for a post on new products update (product list or something!?!) and see what he has to offer. There is a turbo kit avalible for the 4efe,

hope this helps!!

Toby

[geocool69]

nrgizer ok bud. what makes you think that the 4efte is so remarkably different and engineered to a stonger design compared to the na version of the 4e????

remember the fte is jsut an fe with turbo ancilarys attached.

the engines are almost identical apart form the inlet mani and injectors..

the..head,block,crank, vlave springs ect are the same.

i couldent vouch for the pistons but as the compression ratio is the same..i wouldent be too surprised if the rods and pistons were the same aswell.

there is a stigma around saying the fe is iferior and weeker in design...thats bull. wheres the evidence to suport this.

[nrgizerbunny]

nrgizer ok bud. what makes you think that the 4efte is so remarkably different and engineered to a stonger  design compared to the na version of the 4e????

remember the fte is jsut an  fe with turbo ancilarys attached.

If the 4efe was designed to cope with 133hp it would be overengineered/cost too much. Toyota arent stupid. the geometry is probably the same as it is cheaper on R&D costs but I would doubt the materials used are the same.

the engines are almost identical apart form the inlet mani and injectors..

the..head,block,crank, vlave springs ect are the same.

i couldent vouch for the pistons but as the compression ratio is the same..i wouldent be too surprised if the rods and pistons were the same aswell.

there is a stigma around saying the fe is iferior and weeker in design...thats bull.  wheres the evidence to suport this.

←

If the 4efe and 4efte use the same block, pistons, con rods then thats fine I stand corrected but because they look the same doesn't mean that one is forged and the other is cast etc.

on a side note sorry to hear you are banned mate

[toyotasera.co.uk]

Clarification:

According to the Parts CDs,

blocks - same

valvegear - same

sump - different

connecting rods - different

pistons - different

crankshaft - different

flywheel / clutch different (4e-fe - 190mm, 4e-fte - 212mm)

cams - same

[nrgizerbunny]

Thanks for the clarification andrew. Do you know if the head is the same?

It appears from that, that all loaded components (pistons, con rods, crank) apart from the block are different.

unsure why the sump is different, I would have thought that they woudl be the same but seeing as the crank is different that probably explains that.

[toyotasera.co.uk]

The sump has a turbo oil feed drain tube in it. I think it may have better baffling as well.

The head is marked as being the same, but the cam cover is different due to a different breather.

oil pumps are the same,

throttle body is the same

injectors are different

Now, what part numbers can't tell you is what the differences are - that can only be done when you have both next to each other, and you can't easily determine metallurgical differences between the two.

[seedsy]

can sum1 please email me what is included in the 4efe to the 4efte conversion and a rough price or a website pls seedsy_100@hotmail.com regards!

[anup67]

sent a pm bud with lots of usful info :-)

i was just wondering, what did you write in that 'pm', because i have a 4efe ep91 and i wanna squeeze more power out of that engine

thanks